253 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Eh, I really liked Florianne's portrayal. She's one of my favourite characters in the game and she has a very 'Cersei Lannister' vibe about her. She's very sly, devious and intelligent but her biggest weakness is her overconfidence and arrogance - which is very fitting of someone in her position.

I think the whole point of that particular quest was to show the extent of the rot within Orlais - neither Celene, Gaspard, Florianne or Briala are without dark secrets. Florianne just happened to be the one who went further than all the rest.

It seemed to me like she did it to spite Gaspard. She was the joke of the Valmont family. The one seen as irrelevant and inept - not even worth attention in the Game. That was her motivation.

[Barquiel]

Sure, she wasn't the most complex villain ever...but worse than Kai Leng, Warden Kuril or Orsino? I thought Florianne was a pretty decent villain....and I loved the dance sequence.

[RepHope]

Yeah, having her walk in and go "MWAHAHAHAHA" was really stupid. A shame because up until then I was really enjoying the mission. C'mon Bioware how about giving us a mission with a complex and well-written villain who doesn't go full retard? Is that beyond your abilities these days?

[Ashagar]

I would say it was in character from what they showed of her. Of course I also suspect Celene similarly mocked the captain she had tied up in her chambers before leaving him there.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Hay maybe if bioware spent all their time of single  player instead of having to crowbar in multiplayer

 

but hey you stole your soul to EA

crank out releases with multiplayer or else

[RenAdaar]

Lol florianne was the classic villain.

 

telling you her entire plan and then never staying to make sure you don't escape  

[Uhh.. Jonah]

She was the most unbelievable character in Inq. There are just so many things wrong with her character. I mean, she even admits later on that she knew Cory wouldn't hold up his end of their deal. Umm, okay, so you're gonna risk everything you've built over something that you're not even sure of? Ugh.

[Al Foley]

Is this really bad writing or just consistant writing?  Florianne was a duchess in the game of Orlais, one who was trying to work with a man who would be god to become a super being this means that:

• She is used to having other people do her dirty work for her.  And is arrogant to boot that her plans would come together.  
• As being a member of the game, caring about personal appearance, had she taken care of the Inquisitor personally she would have gotten blood on her dress.  that would be seriously bad, and she would have exposed herself.  
• She was under the same time constraints as the Inquisitor...hmmm where did duchess so and so go?  
• As for revealing her plans...this is probably the weakest, but still arrogance does play a crucial factor.  

Now not saying she was a good villain but then again a lot of good guys are not good good guys either.  She is just as much a product of her environment and her upbringing as any of us are.  So the question should be, did she act consistantly with what we know and can infer from her character?  Probably. 

[Hiemoth]

I also had a lot of issues with Florianne, but to me it wasn't a symptom of some grand claim about how Bioware how to write games, but rather of their weird decisions in approaching the main storyline in DAI. The Orlesian civil was supposed to be a really big thing, it was supposed to be the second conflict truly tearing Thedas up, but they never conveyed that in the actual game. Instead they crammed the entire storyline in to that one mission, because apparently that novel that gave the actual background was such a bestseller that BW just decided to assume everyone had read it several times and thus did not really need any background at all. This required them to at times just do such info dumps in the middle of the mission or just have me standing there thinking who the hell is this person. For example Briala, as there had been really no mention of the elven uprising before that moment, yet suddenly I'm told she's really important because of it.

 

This lead Florianne to have a such a weird position in the mission, where she basically only could be the MWA-HA-HA villain, because there was no real alternative for it simply because of the approach. This made her later actions even more bizarre, when she just starts talking how she knew that Cory would have killed her anyway, so why the hell did she do it?

 

A comparable example is Petrice, who was interacted with several times in DA2 and who was given time to develop proper motivation and also to express that.

 

On an unrelated note, I am always baffled to read how the Loghain the slave trader was that much more grey villain than Meredith.

[Aimi]

The Orlesian civil was supposed to be a really big thing, it was supposed to be the second conflict truly tearing Thedas up, but they never conveyed that in the actual game.

...the Exalted Plains?

[In Exile]

I also had a lot of issues with Florianne, but to me it wasn't a symptom of some grand claim about how Bioware how to write games, but rather of their weird decisions in approaching the main storyline in DAI. The Orlesian civil was supposed to be a really big thing, it was supposed to be the second conflict truly tearing Thedas up, but they never conveyed that in the actual game. Instead they crammed the entire storyline in to that one mission, because apparently that novel that gave the actual background was such a bestseller that BW just decided to assume everyone had read it several times and thus did not really need any background at all. This required them to at times just do such info dumps in the middle of the mission or just have me standing there thinking who the hell is this person. For example Briala, as there had been really no mention of the elven uprising before that moment, yet suddenly I'm told she's really important because of it.

This lead Florianne to have a such a weird position in the mission, where she basically only could be the MWA-HA-HA villain, because there was no real alternative for it simply because of the approach. This made her later actions even more bizarre, when she just starts talking how she knew that Cory would have killed her anyway, so why the hell did she do it?

A comparable example is Petrice, who was interacted with several times in DA2 and who was given time to develop proper motivation and also to express that.

On an unrelated note, I am always baffled to read how the Loghain the slave trader was that much more grey villain than Meredith.

Loghain the slave trader is apparently a grey character because he had a really justifiable reason for leaving Cailain to die before starting a civil by demanding that the Landsmeet bend the knee to him, imprisoning his own daughter, poisoning Arl Eamon, and teaming up with Howe *after* he learns Howe is a traitor (since apparently they didn't team up).

The only reason he counts as grey is the lack of moustache twirling.

[Machina Obscura]

Loghain the slave trader is apparently a grey character because he had a really justifiable reason for leaving Cailain to die before starting a civil by demanding that the Landsmeet bend the knee to him, imprisoning his own daughter, poisoning Arl Eamon, and teaming up with Howe *after* he learns Howe is a traitor (since apparently they didn't team up).

The only reason he counts as grey is the lack of moustache twirling.

Loghain is a hero.

 

Elves arent people, his daughter needed a time out, the nobles were acting like children, Howe is a good ally, and Arl Eamon births demon babies.

 

Threnn greatly approves.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

florianne needs a wario mustache though 

she's a classic mustache twirling villain 

[Hiemoth]

...the Exalted Plains?

 

What about the Exalted Plains? The main conflict there was with the undead and demons, with both sides of this great civil war not being aggressive to each other at all, due to the cease fire. There were no people telling you about the horrors of the war, no sign how the land was being ripped apart.

[Al Foley]

What about the Exalted Plains? The main conflict there was with the undead and demons, with both sides of this great civil war not being aggressive to each other at all, due to the cease fire. There were no people telling you about the horrors of the war, no sign how the land was being ripped apart.

You and I remember a very different Exalted Plains. 

[In Exile]

What about the Exalted Plains? The main conflict there was with the undead and demons, with both sides of this great civil war not being aggressive to each other at all, due to the cease fire. There were no people telling you about the horrors of the war, no sign how the land was being ripped apart.

The whole landscape was ripped apart. Villages were burned. There were corposes everywhere - where did they come from?

[Hiemoth]

Loghain the slave trader is apparently a grey character because he had a really justifiable reason for leaving Cailain to die before starting a civil by demanding that the Landsmeet bend the knee to him, imprisoning his own daughter, poisoning Arl Eamon, and teaming up with Howe *after* he learns Howe is a traitor (since apparently they didn't team up).

The only reason he counts as grey is the lack of moustache twirling.

 

I agree to a large degree, but the slave trading always remained with me because with all the other things I could kind of see how it might fit in to Loghain's more and more desperate actions and removing those he saw threaten Ferelden, even if it was becoming really ridiculous at a certain point. Yet with the slave trade, it just kind of happened, didn't fit at all with the other actions and was there to just underline that this was a villain that needed to be taken down.

 

For me, with Meredith, Arishok, and as the lesser villain Petrice, I could understand all of their actions from the perspective of the characters and while some of their actions were truly horrific, it fitted with their world view, it was justified within. I could see how they were heroes of their own stories. With Loghain, to me he just felt like a power-hungry madman with really no personal justification to several actions and thus he never really felt grey for me.

 

Now, I'm not saying everyone should feel similarly, as characters and how they appeal to people are so subjective and dependent on so many factors, yet most of the time I see Loghain discussed there is so much praise for him with so many of his deeds basically ignored, yet Meredith, who I freely admit was not developed as much as she should have due to the rushing of the third act, is just slammed as a one-dimensional mad woman.

[Hiemoth]

The whole landscape was ripped apart. Villages were burned. There were corposes everywhere - where did they come from?

 

Probably from the civil war, yet when despite this raging war, when I went there was no hostilities there and my party could pretty much wander freely without any hassle from either side.

 

Don't get me wrong, I did like the design and the atmosphere of the Exalted Plains and I understood what it supposed to represent, but for me, it really didn't work at that level, as while I saw the destruction and the bodies, there was no sense of urgency, on-going conflict or even anything that really established the core conflict. Thus I could see there was a conflict, but was not really provided any context for that conflict.

 

As for the Elven uprising, I don't recall Exalted Plains really providing anything on that, did it?

[In Exile]

Probably from the civil war, yet when despite this raging war, when I went there was no hostilities there and my party could pretty much wander freely without any hassle from either side.

Don't get me wrong, I did like the design and the atmosphere of the Exalted Plains and I understood what it supposed to represent, but for me, it really didn't work at that level, as while I saw the destruction and the bodies, there was no sense of urgency, on-going conflict or even anything that really established the core conflict. Thus I could see there was a conflict, but was not really provided any context for that conflict.

As for the Elven uprising, I don't recall Exalted Plains really providing anything on that, did it?

The eleven uprising was a complete WTF to me. I mean I knew of TME so I knew apparently one was happening but that's kind of it.

As to the civil war the thing is that there was a ceasefire. So that's why they weren't murdering each other.

I agree it would be better if they had an ongoing war.

[Nimlowyn]

Is this really bad writing or just consistant writing?  Florianne was a duchess in the game of Orlais, one who was trying to work with a man who would be god to become a super being this means that:

• She is used to having other people do her dirty work for her.  And is arrogant to boot that her plans would come together.  
• As being a member of the game, caring about personal appearance, had she taken care of the Inquisitor personally she would have gotten blood on her dress.  that would be seriously bad, and she would have exposed herself.  
• She was under the same time constraints as the Inquisitor...hmmm where did duchess so and so go?  
• As for revealing her plans...this is probably the weakest, but still arrogance does play a crucial factor.  

Now not saying she was a good villain but then again a lot of good guys are not good good guys either.  She is just as much a product of her environment and her upbringing as any of us are.  So the question should be, did she act consistantly with what we know and can infer from her character?  Probably.

I agree with this. Florianne has something she desperately wants to prove. People like that typically behave foolishly. In that case, is it any surprise that she can end up as your jester?

Florianne is not a badly written character, she's a fool.

[In Exile]

I agree to a large degree, but the slave trading always remained with me because with all the other things I could kind of see how it might fit in to Loghain's more and more desperate actions and removing those he saw threaten Ferelden, even if it was becoming really ridiculous at a certain point. Yet with the slave trade, it just kind of happened, didn't fit at all with the other actions and was there to just underline that this was a villain that needed to be taken down.

For me, with Meredith, Arishok, and as the lesser villain Petrice, I could understand all of their actions from the perspective of the characters and while some of their actions were truly horrific, it fitted with their world view, it was justified within. I could see how they were heroes of their own stories. With Loghain, to me he just felt like a power-hungry madman with really no personal justification to several actions and thus he never really felt grey for me.

Now, I'm not saying everyone should feel similarly, as characters and how they appeal to people are so subjective and dependent on so many factors, yet most of the time I see Loghain discussed there is so much praise for him with so many of his deeds basically ignored, yet Meredith, who I freely admit was not developed as much as she should have due to the rushing of the third act, is just slammed as a one-dimensional mad woman.

Loghain had an excuse for the slavery: he said the alienage could not be defended and that the elves would die and spread the blight. Letting them get sold off saved them from that fate AND raised funds for the war.

So he had a reason.

[Al Foley]

Probably from the civil war, yet when despite this raging war, when I went there was no hostilities there and my party could pretty much wander freely without any hassle from either side.

 

Don't get me wrong, I did like the design and the atmosphere of the Exalted Plains and I understood what it supposed to represent, but for me, it really didn't work at that level, as while I saw the destruction and the bodies, there was no sense of urgency, on-going conflict or even anything that really established the core conflict. Thus I could see there was a conflict, but was not really provided any context for that conflict.

 

As for the Elven uprising, I don't recall Exalted Plains really providing anything on that, did it?

 

Because people were meeting in Halamshiral to discuss a peace treaty.  Usually people do go into a Cease Fire when such things happen.  Speaking of bad writing, that would have done it.  

I agree with this. Florianne has something she desperately wants to prove. People like that typically behave foolishly. In that case, is it any surprise that she can end up as your jester?

Florianne is not a badly written character, she's a fool.

I now tend to think of her as an incompetent Celene.  

[Hiemoth]

The eleven uprising was a complete WTF to me. I mean I knew of TME so I knew apparently one was happening but that's kind of it.

As to the civil war the thing is that there was a ceasefire. So that's why they weren't murdering each other.

I agree it would be better if they had an ongoing war.

 

It wasn't the ceasefire, but rather the lack of reasons for the war or why different factions had chosen who to stand behind. There was no moment with someone explaining why Celene was destroying everything, why Gaspard was a traitorous traitor who traitors, no one to speak of those caught in between. There was destruction, but that destruction would have been the same if the undead had swiped the area, if the Cory's forces had hit it.

 

To me, it didn't provide any real information or context for the conflict, it just felt destruction and desolution that didn't really build the story. As an example of what I would have preferred is actually the Hinterlands, which shows you on multiple situations the conflict between the Templars and Mages, where it is stemming from and how it is affecting those caught in between.

 

BTW, on the Elven uprising, I was also aware of TME, but it was still so weirdly handled on the game that for a long time I thought they just dropped it. But my favorite how they casually mention in war table operation that the Elves can use the Eluvians after making it such a huge plot point for the main story.

[Hiemoth]

Loghain had an excuse for the slavery: he said the alienage could not be defended and that the elves would die and spread the blight. Letting them get sold off saved them from that fate AND raised funds for the war.

So he had a reason.

 

Yeah, I remember the explanation as it made no sense at all for me. First of all because the Alieanage is within the city walls and he wasn't rushing to sell any of the other citizens to slavery. Secondly, by that logic his armies should have been putting all the villages near the Darkspawn to the sword.

 

It would have helped if the story had established him even as racist towards Elves, but there was no such moment.