253 réponses à ce sujet

[phantomrachie]

Watchmen. Watch it. It's one of the best movies ever.

 

Or read it, I prefer the graphic novel over the film.

[robertthebard]

It wasn't the ceasefire, but rather the lack of reasons for the war or why different factions had chosen who to stand behind. There was no moment with someone explaining why Celene was destroying everything, why Gaspard was a traitorous traitor who traitors, no one to speak of those caught in between. There was destruction, but that destruction would have been the same if the undead had swiped the area, if the Cory's forces had hit it.

Um, all of this was explained right after the Mage/Templar choice, when you learn about the plan Cory has for Orlais. It's not even a subtext reference, it's spelled out in it's entirety by your advisors. It can even be elaborated on during WE/WH if, while you're schmoozing with the Nobles while building up some court approval, you actually talk to them. They straight out handwalk you through the entire plot of the Orlesian civil war.
 

To me, it didn't provide any real information or context for the conflict, it just felt destruction and desolution that didn't really build the story. As an example of what I would have preferred is actually the Hinterlands, which shows you on multiple situations the conflict between the Templars and Mages, where it is stemming from and how it is affecting those caught in between.
 
BTW, on the Elven uprising, I was also aware of TME, but it was still so weirdly handled on the game that for a long time I thought they just dropped it. But my favorite how they casually mention in war table operation that the Elves can use the Eluvians after making it such a huge plot point for the main story.

The context was provided:

Spoiler

Celene outplayed Gaspard, who was supposed to be next in line for the throne. Briala was extending the conflict by attacking which ever side was winning at the moment. Celene was trying to keep what she had played so hard to get.

I never read TME, I got all of that from the game itself.

[Ogillardetta]

Eamon did, though. And there was no way to refuse working with him. Or to avoid the Warden committing mass murder to find a relic that may not even exist. Because an obscure legend says that it may help cure people. With no evidence given anywhere. But the Warden has to go, 'cause plot. But that's ok 'cause......Alistair likes him? (Always nice to have a neglected kid liking his abuser) or because of his fake grandfatherly mentor act?

 

Can you tell that I can't stand the treasonous snake?

He didn't magically appear though and he isn't Florianne and I don't consider him evil even though I kinda see what you mean. I was to angry at Loghain to even care. I just wanted him to pay for what he did. 

[PocketDragon]

Watchmen. Watch it. It's one of the best movies ever.

 

Watchman atomic dong....

 

Florianne should have been executed, but her nobility prevented that. Unless you kill ze boss

[Ashagar]

To be fair the wardens have shown in the past a easily willingness to resort to blood magic and demons and Duncan from origins only saw blood magic as a tool to be used... in spite of it involving demons and repeatedly being pointed out in lore as corrupting on those who use it. In fact going back and playing origins it almost sounded to me like he was trying to encourage the mage he would be recruiting to take it up.

[KaiserShep]

Erimond is worse than Florianne. 

 

MUAHAHAHAHA!!! LISTEN TO MY EVIL PLAN WARDENS!!! I'M TOTALLY NOT IN LEAGUE WITH AN ANCIENT TEVINTER MAGISTER!!!! MUAHAHAAHAH!! BLOOD MAGIC AND DEMONS ARE TOTALLY THE ANSWER!!! CONVENIENT THAT I SHOW JUST SHOW UP AS YOU HEAR THE CALLING YOU SAY??? IGNORE IT, I HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS TO YOUR PROBLEMS WITH BLOOD MAGIC AND DEMONS!!!! MUHAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sophia Dryden would've been all over that idea. After all, she fully supported Avernus' use of blood magic and demon summoning to fight a kingdom, let alone ancient evil. Even if the Wardens had misgivings about Erimond's sinister voice and curious timing, they were pretty much screwed.

[robertthebard]

Wardens being open to it is not the same as jumping at it the first chance they get. It's not that they turned to blood magic that's alarming; it's that it's the very first thing they turned to.

It's not even that they turned to it that's disturbing, it's that they turned to the worst possible application of it, twice, that we know of.

[KaiserShep]

Different situation. They were besieged for months. By then every other realistic option had been forfeited exhausted.

 

Trouble is, it takes hordes of tireless darkspawn up to an entire Age to reach an Old God, and they vastly outnumber the entire Grey Warden order as well as the entirety of the Legion of the Dead. Realistically, they were probably looking at a very imminent, ghoulish death where they may lose their faculties long before they could succeed on their own. No treaty they could wield could ever get them the forces they need from regular people.

[KaiserShep]

Oh no, they were stupid, but desperation isn't exactly a safe haven for wisdom. Of course, once Erimond had enough of them duped, the rest that objected were dealt with, just like what happened to the Red Templars.

[Nefla]

Oh they definitely assume the player is stupid. It shows in moments like that, lack of difficult puzzles, lack of detailed ai tactics, the fact that everything is spelled out for the player with no subtlety, etc...I'm surprised we didn't get the glowing trail from Fable.

[l7986]

Sophia Dryden would've been all over that idea. After all, she fully supported Avernus' use of blood magic and demon summoning to fight a kingdom, let alone ancient evil. Even if the Wardens had misgivings about Erimond's sinister voice and curious timing, they were pretty much screwed.

You do realize said kingdom had laid siege to her castle and was in the process of breaking down the doors right? Pretty sure most people would resort to extreme measures if they were about to be slaughtered.

[robertthebard]

You do realize said kingdom had laid siege to her castle and was in the process of breaking down the doors right? Pretty sure most people would resort to extreme measures if they were about to be slaughtered.

Can we have the Paul Harvey moment now? You know, the "rest of the story". (dammit, that'll give my age away faster than anything else) They were under siege because they tried to overthrow the King. It's not like the King woke up one day and said "Hey, I'm bored, let's lay siege to the Wardens for something to do".

[Hiemoth]

Um, all of this was explained right after the Mage/Templar choice, when you learn about the plan Cory has for Orlais. It's not even a subtext reference, it's spelled out in it's entirety by your advisors. It can even be elaborated on during WE/WH if, while you're schmoozing with the Nobles while building up some court approval, you actually talk to them. They straight out handwalk you through the entire plot of the Orlesian civil war.
 

The context was provided:

Spoiler

Celene outplayed Gaspard, who was supposed to be next in line for the throne. Briala was extending the conflict by attacking which ever side was winning at the moment. Celene was trying to keep what she had played so hard to get.

I never read TME, I got all of that from the game itself.

 

And I do not know if you read my discussion on the thread on this subject, that was kind of my point. Everything had to be infodumped on the player just before or during that quest. It had to be spelled out to the player because there was almost no other story or narrative to really support or build it. The elven uprising was basically non-existent prior to that point and so forth. There was nothing really in the game making the civil war seem important, yet the player is constantly told during that one mission how important it is.

[robertthebard]

And I do not know if you read my discussion on the thread on this subject, that was kind of my point. Everything had to be infodumped on the player just before or during that quest. It had to be spelled out to the player because there was almost no other story or narrative to really support or build it. The elven uprising was basically non-existent prior to that point and so forth. There was nothing really in the game making the civil war seem important, yet the player is constantly told during that one mission how important it is.

It had to be spelled out because, as a Dalish from the Free Marches, I wasn't up on Orlais court intrigue. I'd imagine the same would apply to all Inquisitors. It's not like any of them were particularly well known at court. So we either get it from external sources, TME or the forums, or they provide us the information we need to go in informed about the basics, which is what we get in game. All the information I needed to not walk into WE/WH blind was given to me, and what I didn't get from my advisors, the people that exist to keep me informed on relevant information, was learned throughout the quest which, surprisingly enough, seems to me to be the way we should learn of the particulars.

[TEWR]

Fair enough, but there's no talking around it. The Warden's were in possession of the idiot ball. Every Warden hearing the Calling simultaneously including new recruits and no one thought to question it other than Loghian... nah man. 

 

You're telling me to believe every Warden in Orlais has the IQ of soap.

 

Well, they are Orlesian .

 

But I agree. It's rather troubling that only one person thinks to question it. I adjust that in my headcanon.

 

I talk about my headcanon a lot it seems...

[LinksOcarina]

Well, they are Orlesian .

 

But I agree. It's rather troubling that only one person thinks to question it. I adjust that in my headcanon.

 

I talk about my headcanon a lot it seems...

 

It's tough to be a dissenting voice when no one wants to hear what you have to say. Even more so when you see what happens to the one who dissents. 

 

The warden storyline is a bit more believable than people give it credit, it seems...

[CronoDragoon]

He was a terrible villain. He just had good character dialogue. He follows the same path of threatening to ineptitude that Corypheus followed in DAI.

What makes Irenicus work so well and what makes every other Bioware villain (besides Sun Li) not work as well is that they don't have great *dialogue*.

 

I disagree with this when looking at DA: I, or maybe the issue is that Corypheus isn't allowed to have extensive dialogue as the game progresses.

 

In Your Heart Shall Burn is a fantastic display of crackling dialogue.

 

Cory: I have gathered the will to return under no name but my own. To champion withered Tevinter and correct this blighted world. Beg that I succeed, for I have seen the throne of the Gods. And it was empty.

[hong]

In Your Heart Shall Burn is a fantastic display of crackling dialogue.
 
Cory: I have gathered the will to return under no name but my own. To champion withered Tevinter and correct this blighted world. Beg that I succeed, for I have seen the throne of the Gods. And it was empty.

Oh hell, yeah. The best villain line I've seen since Sovereign's chat on Virmire.

[ElementalFury106]

What? There's isn't even any real competition. Florianne did not magically appear and forced me to trust her because plot. I could even say I suspected it was her before she made her big MWHAHAHA! so you know not "biowares worst writing evar!!1!"

Frankly I'm happy the villans are classically evil in this game. I've had enough "mysterious and hard to understand" villans to last me a while tbh.

 

Nothing, I agree with you. Your post just cracked me up, is all ^.^