253 réponses à ce sujet

[thats1evildude]

My interpretation was that Florianne arranged for the ceasefire under the pretense that the war wasn't going anywhere, and with the sky torn by the Breach, everyone recognized there were bigger problems on the horizon.

The point of the masquerade was not just to kill Celene, but to pin her death on Gaspard. Leaderless and divided, Orlais would never rally to oppose Corypheus, thus handing him an easy victory.

The appearance of the undead on the Exalted Plains began after the ceasefire was called, as Gordian manipulated the Freemen into bringing him corpses to stack in the pits. At the same time, Fairbanks began gathering refugees together and the clashed with the Freemen. The Red Templars also insinuated themselves into Emprise Du Lion, first appearing as benefactors before eventually dropping the act.

As for the gloating thing, well, it's not like the Inquisitor wouldn't know who lured them into a trap. Florianne tells the Inquisitor to go to the royal wing, and suddenly they're attacked by Tevinter assassins? Plus, the harlequin tried to kill Briala's friend in her old room, and the Fereldan mercenary said she had lured him there as well. All evidence pointed at her as Corypheus' collaborator; she might as well gloat.

[d1ta]

... The worst?

Even worse than Kai Leng?

(To me KL still holds the crowning glory for 'worst evil dude' .. Everytime he made a cutscene, I cringed. I cringed the hardest upon seeing a vid of how TIM made a comment that he's Shep's rival... yeah.. >_<)

I think her spilling the beans is like a villian's standard operation procedure in most games. Corypheus did it, Erimond did it.. etc. It's due to their pride that they see themselves as 'right', their plans are absolutely failproof and the need to feel they are 'above' their opponent.

It fits her character, though. She likes to play intrigue but she's not that smart. She can cook up a decent plan in the beginning (mediating peace talks as a disguise to murder Celene) but horrible at execution by not computing the 'Herald' factor (and tries to kill the Inquisitor with fade rift?? Omg. Fade rifts are like Tuesdays for the Herald at this point).
And feeling that this is such a brilliant failproof plan that she and Calpernia cooks up, yaps away their plan.

That's why I love Solas. Damn sympathetic, he is prideful in his own way by thinking that he alone can 'fix' what ever it is need fixing, but never allow it to go over his head and reveal his plans even to a romanced Lavellan. Quiet and unassuming. When his business is done, he just leaves without a word.
Thumbs up.

[Nefla]

She can't be forgiven for her awful, discount Miley Cyrus hairstyle.

[Former_Fiend]

If we're talking about the worst writing for a villain in the game, I'd go with the real Lucius over Florianne. Rule the world villains always make more sense to me than destroy the world villains.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Not the best writing, to be sure, and could definitely have been done better, but worst writing ever to come from Bioware? Not. Even. Close.

 

That title is firmly held by the ending of ME3 - it is notoriously poorly conceived and written. There's nothing that comes even close to being that bad. It is a singular example of ultimate writing suckyness. If it was anywhere else but as the FINAL reveal of a much loved three game series, it might be funny, it's so bad. They botched it up so magnificently, to such a degree, that to continue the series, they had to place the next game literally a galaxy away from the mess that was left behind. I do not expect that the top spot on the "worst writing to come from Bioware" list will ever be claimed by anything else. At least I sincerely hope it won't.   

 

Compared to that horror-story, Florianne was a masterpiece of writing. 

[thats1evildude]

If we're talking about the worst writing for a villain in the game, I'd go with the real Lucius over Florianne. Rule the world villains always make more sense to me than destroy the world villains.

I think learning the truth about Seekers drove him a little cuckoo for chocobos.

[Aren]

It's a Mortal Kombat story.  Seriously, if you stop thinking of Bioware as great writers (they are not, they are mediocre on a good day), you'll be less disappointed in their products.

but without the  "Kombat"

Spoiler

[Former_Fiend]

I think learning the truth about Seekers drove him a little cuckoo for chocobos.

 

That is not a point in his favor.

[Ieldra]

Hmm you mean basically other than most Villains in adventure and RPGs games as well a fair number of movies the perhaps biggest exception being Ion Irencius.

Ah, Irenicus....such a well-made antagonist. Most antagonists come across as so stupid that they drag the hero down with them, along with the rest of humanity: "What, we need a hero to fight *this*?" Kai Leng is the incarnation of such a character. Florianne..well, not nearly as bad, but the same type in the end.

 

I blame individual writers. I don't know how they do things at Bioware exactly, but my impression is that there are only one or two experienced writers who do the job more or less full-time on the DA team, and we know they're always giving some jobs to newbies. Also, they have their preferences. I'd trust Gaider to write a good antagonist, but I have my doubts about Weekes. No doubt he's competent, but he appears to prefer a more black and white setup, which tends to end up with more stereotypical antagonists. We'll see what he does with Solas I guess. 

[Semyaza82]

I think we do have to take into account Thedas doesn't have the internet - poor Florianne didn't have access to the Evil Overlord List.

[Ieldra]

I think we do have to take into account Thedas doesn't have the internet - poor Florianne didn't have access to the Evil Overlord List.

Yeah....but everyone with a brain should be able to figure out 90% of the list on their own. 

[TobiTobsen]

I was surprised that nobody stabbed her earlier. That buzz cut must have been against the rules and etiquette of the Game.

[vbibbi]

My interpretation was that Florianne arranged for the ceasefire under the pretense that the war wasn't going anywhere, and with the sky torn by the Breach, everyone recognized there were bigger problems on the horizon.

The point of the masquerade was not just to kill Celene, but to pin her death on Gaspard. Leaderless and divided, Orlais would never rally to oppose Corypheus, thus handing him an easy victory.

The appearance of the undead on the Exalted Plains began after the ceasefire was called, as Gordian manipulated the Freemen into bringing him corpses to stack in the pits. At the same time, Fairbanks began gathering refugees together and the clashed with the Freemen. The Red Templars also insinuated themselves into Emprise Du Lion, first appearing as benefactors before eventually dropping the act.

As for the gloating thing, well, it's not like the Inquisitor wouldn't know who lured them into a trap. Florianne tells the Inquisitor to go to the royal wing, and suddenly they're attacked by Tevinter assassins? Plus, the harlequin tried to kill Briala's friend in her old room, and the Fereldan mercenary said she had lured him there as well. All evidence pointed at her as Corypheus' collaborator; she might as well gloat.

OK thanks this helps me understand the situation a bit better. Still not on board with the gloating, but that's a character writing issue rather than a plot issue.

[Blood Mage Reaver]

The real problem is that games, like any other mass-consumer media, must be written in a way that simpletons who just drop in and hack n' slash their way through everything don't get stuck in the middle of the plot because they ignored everything around them.

 

Whenever someone tries to make a game with dept and complexity it usually ends like a cult hit of small profit because most people are stuck to the standards of B action movies or cheap romance books.

[Redemption2407]

Florianne is an example of everything that is wrong with recent BioWare games and especially Inquisition. Wicked Eyes was a great quest, full of intrigue and mystery. This is one of the ONLY times in this game that I actually felt like a ****** inquisitor; attempting to puzzle out the assassin's identity.

 

All until the point of Florianne's idiotic reveal. 

 

Seriously, what kind of a moron reveals her plans to the only entity at the ball who can stop her, and then simply LEAVES the hero behind without seeing him captured/dead? You just gave away your plans and now you're going to take a chance by leaving the only loose end (who shouldn't ****** be there in the first place) behind? Why would ANYONE, let alone an expert at the "game" do something this stupid? Is this a Mortal Kombat story or a deep RPG with complex characters?

 

This makes me think that BioWare assumes that the player is stupid and is unable to piece out the evidence and find the assassin himself. The quest would've been so much better if you actually had to deduce the assassin from the evidence you gathered and were able to make a mistake (but oh no, god forbid we let the player lose from time to time. Let's just take him by the hand and guide him through the entire game). 

People do that.
Most psychos leave a trail so that you can find them, it is part of their narcissism, they think themselves above others so they like doing stupid things for people to catch them. When they are really good they usually escape most of times they just get caught. Considering how old Florianne is I'm guessing she was one the great ones and if not for the Inquisitor having superpowers she would be the master.
So villains in story are a cartoony representation of this trait, an exaggeration of psychopathy narcissicus nature.
Even if she wasn't psycho and was a neurotic she could still do that because neurotic often self-sabotage their plans.
So, yeah, it was stupid, but people do that.

[LOLandStuff]

Nobody dressed that way is meant to be taken seriously.

[vbibbi]

The real problem is that games, like any other mass-consumer media, must be written in a way that simpletons who just drop in and hack n' slash their way through everything don't get stuck in the middle of the plot because they ignored everything around them.

 

Whenever someone tries to make a game with dept and complexity it usually ends like a cult hit of small profit because most people are stuck to the standards of B action movies or cheap romance books.

Cassandra: And what's wrong with that?

 

But yeah, I know Bioware is stuck having to appeal to the largest common denominator, so it's a tough position. I was really wanting there to at least be an option of no combat at all in WEWH (or only one boss fight with the harlequin in the servants' quarters) kind of like the sneaking around we can do in Chateau Haine. Obviously, there is still a lot of fighting in MotA, so it's not a perfect example. But I really would have liked the ability to discover the identity of the mastermind without the failsafe of Florianne gloating in case we didn't get it. To be fair to the players, I don't think there was enough solid evidence that we could clearly blame her, it was still a guessing game without strong proof of Florianne. There should have been more investigation, with some options locked out if we don't have at least one dialogue perk to get the full picture.

[Elhanan]

It would seem that the OP, while being a standing member of BSN, has not done much reading here at BSN. Examples appear daily.

As for leaving the Inq to return to the ball, if my memory does not fail me, villains get bonus pts for this in some cRPG's. It indicates a feeling of superiority and demonstrates bravado. See Bond villains FTW....

[Ieldra]

Nobody dressed that way is meant to be taken seriously.

Nobody with that haircut, I'd rather say. That abomination of a haircut is so ugly it's doesn't even fit a villain.

[darkway1]

The writing in general was a shambles and demonstrated a total lack of continuity,even bread and butter aspects of character design didn't work for me,Cassandra has a hands on personality so having her as head of the chantry just didn't fit,it would drive her nuts and then there's Liliana who could well have been a "Ghost" through out the game (cos you killed her in DAO),not to mention basic game play that allowed you to have a romance with the later revealed villain Solas,why do that????.....why set the player up for a fall??

 

People have issues with the presentation,writing etc but at the end of the day it's someone's job to green light all this stuff.???

[Blood Mage Reaver]

The writing in general was a shambles and demonstrated a total lack of continuity,even bread and butter aspects of character design didn't work for me,Cassandra has a hands on personality so having her as head of the chantry just didn't fit,it would drive her nuts and then there's Liliana who could well have been a "Ghost" through out the game (cos you killed her in DAO),not to mention basic game play that allowed you to have a romance with the later revealed villain Solas,why do that????.....why set the player up for a fall??

 

People have issues with the presentation,writing etc but at the end of the day it's someone's job to green light all this stuff.???

Money, it's always for the money.

 

Like I said, cheap romance sells like ice cream on the desert because the world is filled with angsty sex deprived teenagers who thinks they can get a brooding misterious hunk to fall in love with them and become the most important person in his life *cough*Twilight*cought*.

 

Male gamers are no better, they either rack n' slash everything to take away their frustrations or play the cheap romance card with fictional woman stereotypes.

[Former_Fiend]

The writing in general was a shambles and demonstrated a total lack of continuity,even bread and butter aspects of character design didn't work for me,Cassandra has a hands on personality so having her as head of the chantry just didn't fit,it would drive her nuts and then there's Liliana who could well have been a "Ghost" through out the game (cos you killed her in DAO),not to mention basic game play that allowed you to have a romance with the later revealed villain Solas,why do that????.....why set the player up for a fall??

 

People have issues with the presentation,writing etc but at the end of the day it's someone's job to green light all this stuff.???

 

They've explained that the Solas romance was included to make him more sympathetic.

 

Judging by the reaction from some of members of these forums, I think they were a little too successful. 

[KaiserShep]

Nobody with that haircut, I'd rather say. That abomination of a haircut is so ugly it's doesn't even fit a villain.

I like that she has the exact same hairdo as that goofy guy that consults with Lord Woolsey in the Hinterlands.

[thats1evildude]

Nearly everybody at the Winter Palace has short hairstyles to keep from clipping through their mask. Briala doesn't, and you can see where her hair is peeking through.

[duckley]

Nothing wrong with the writing of her character.... it was her hair that was the problem....