50 réponses à ce sujet

[GoodFella146]

I was wondering what all people thought about the AI's decision making regarding tactical abilities.  For the most part I think the community agrees that the AI's decision making very bad.  For myself I shut almost all tactics off, with only a few exceptions.  If the AI can jack the ability up in any way I just shut it off.

 

Here's what I have found so far that the AI is actually good with and thus keep them on (everything else is turned off and I activate them myself):

 

Block and Slash (set to preferred)

Earthshaking Strike (set to enabled)

 

Shield Wall (set to preferred)

Shield Bash (set to enabled)

 

Evade (set to preferred)

Stealth (set to enabled) - not sure what I saw before, but I tried this again and the AI was pretty good with it in combination with Evade

Poison Weapons (set to enabled) - mostly due to the low cost

Flank Attack (set to enabled)

Hidden Blades (set to enabled) - mostly due to Stealth and Evade being so cheap that it's not an issue

 

Some abilities seemed like they would be good with tactics on but they ended up not being such.  These were:

 

Parry - with more testing this actually turned out to not be as good as I thought, having both Evade and Stealth on is WAY better

Twinfangs/Deathblow/Shadow Strike -  the AI will still do these randomly like Lunge and Slash, not bothering to way for a cross class combo

 

Full Draw - wasn't awful but sometimes it would deplete Varric's stamina to zero, which got annoying when I needed other defensive abilities

Long Shot - starting hitting Brontos, Gurns, etc. which made fights a lot tougher (due to Archer's Lance)

 

Barrier - too often it felt it ended up cast at random, often being useless

Fade Step - often used when it wasn't necessary, also constantly screwed up Winter Stillness as a result

Winter's Grasp - AI just randomly hits targets rather than save it as a defensive skill

Energy Barrage - I just didn't like the fact that it used mana in critical moments where it was needed on something to save a party member

Dispel - got wasted too much then wasn't around when I needed it to dispel fade rifts

 

Lunge and Slash - AI used it randomly so it wasn't available when I wanted to do a cross class combo

Charging Bull - kills allies too easily, plus guy won't stop running like a moron; idk why the enemy AI is so much better with this

Walking Fortress - felt like Blackwall wouldn't use it then had very bad timing when he did

 

 

For the record I play Nightmare with friendly fire on.  There are certain assumptions made with certain skills that I haven't even bothered to try (nor will).  Like for example, I'm assuming the AI is brutal with skills like Pull of the Abyss as it would wipe your whole party.

 

I still consider this to possibly be a partial list because I don't sit there and try every single skill specifically for this; I just play the game and throw down my observations.  Also, I haven't used some characters/skills as much as others yet.  I still need to play more with Iron Bull, Cole, and Solas.

 

If you have anything to add then let us know!

[teks]

The ai is good with flanking strike set to perferred. It also uses twin fangs well. Hidden blades works nice. War cry of course. Dispel is a big one. I suck as dispel, while the ai automatically knows when itll do something.

[GoodFella146]

The ai is good with flanking strike set to perferred. It also uses twin fangs well. Hidden blades works nice. War cry of course. Dispel is a big one. I suck as dispel, while the ai automatically knows when itll do something.

 

Ahh yeah I haven't played too much with Cole just yet (that's next playthrough).  Those are some things I need to try still, though like I said Parry seemed to work well.  I personally didn't like War Cry on the AI when I had the ability.  I could get much better results myself picking when to use it (like, for example, Combat Roll into a crowd, then use it).

 

Dispel would get used like right before killing the last enemy half way through a Fade Rift.  Then when I went to Dispel the summons it was never there.  I had to turn it off.

[teks]

Oh yeah they wont do that. I dont like that either. Kinda trivializes the game. I want them to spawn, so i can kill them meself.

[TheImmortalBeaver]

I'd say just about anything with an AoE. While I don't hate the new tactics system for what it is, the lack of being able to tell a party member to use an ability only when enemies/allies were appropriately clustered is incredibly frustrating. Because of this, the AI just uses AoE skills like they're normal skills. Given that abilities with a wider range of effect usually cost more mana, have a higher cooldown and do less straight-up damage, it quickly becomes clear how incredibly inefficient this will end up being. AoE skills are supposed to be used as the name implies, and the AI does not seem capable of doing that on it's own.

[Sugram84]

if u have rouge go to tactics & change stealth & evade skill to preferred & ur rouge survivability increases, but cause of the dumb Ai mistakes still happen, but it helps to do it, if u have the skill then poison weapons to, to meany skills preferred & Ai starts to make more mistakes

[GoodFella146]

if u have rouge go to tactics & change stealth & evade skill to preferred & ur rouge survivability increases, but cause of the dumb Ai mistakes still happen, but it helps to do it, if u have the skill then poison weapons to, to meany skills preferred & Ai starts to make more mistakes

 

Yeah I forgot about Poison Weapons.  It seems to do that okay but like I said I do not like Stealth controlled by the AI.

[ImDedicatedToMyApologies]

Charging Bull - kills allies too easily

The problem with AI casting charging bull is that they keep going even if they miss (and AI really like to miss). And while he is walking back there is plenty of time for enemies to kill your squishies.

As for friendly fire, if you turn that on there are many abilities better at killing friendly besides charging bull.

[GoodFella146]

The problem with AI casting charging bull is that they keep going even if they miss (and AI really like to miss). And while he is walking back there is plenty of time for enemies to kill your squishies.

As for friendly fire, if you turn that on there are many abilities better at killing friendly besides charging bull.

 

Yeah, that's another annoying thing but what really made me shut it off was the friendly fire.  I was hoping others had a good skill or two I might have missed.. not looking good.

[Icy Magebane]

Yeah, that's another annoying thing but what really made me shut it off was the friendly fire.  I was hoping others had a good skill or two I might have missed.. not looking good.

I found Grappling Chain to be pretty useful on the warriors... they did continue using it against large enemies that cannot be dragged around, but it does ranged damage, so it's not a huge problem.

 

I'm actually surprised that you got any use out of Shield Wall or Block and Slash... with Shield Wall, the warrior would just sit there blocking indefinitely even if no enemies were nearby, and Block and Slash simply did not work at all from what I saw...

 

Also, I notice you didn't list many mage abilities, but the ones I found that worked very well were Chain Lightning, Immolate, Wall of Fire, and Energy Barrage... obviously Immolate and Wall of Fire might lose some if it's appeal if you play with friendly fire on...

 

Finally, I'll just add Caltrops to the list of abilities I won't touch with a ten foot pole.  I don't remember it working correctly for the AI even once, except for the version that you can get on weapons.  And even then, I thought it worked with ranged weapons and wound up being a waste when I put it on a bow... xD  The caltrops still drop, but they do so near the archer, not the target, so it's almost entirely pointless on bows...

[devSin]

I'm actually surprised that you got any use out of Shield Wall or Block and Slash... with Shield Wall, the warrior would just sit there blocking indefinitely even if no enemies were nearby, and Block and Slash simply did not work at all from what I saw...

The AI should be pretty good with both, but it doesn't sustain either.

It will use Shield Wall or Block and Slash against a single attack (with perfect timing), and can even use Shield Wall against some sustained attacks (I know I've seen Cassandra turtle up when getting blasted by an arcane horror).

If you manually activate Shield Wall, though, the AI will usually just stand in place doing nothing until you deactivate it.
 

Finally, I'll just add Caltrops to the list of abilities I won't touch with a ten foot pole.  I don't remember it working correctly for the AI even once, except for the version that you can get on weapons.  And even then, I thought it worked with ranged weapons and wound up being a waste when I put it on a bow... xD  The caltrops still drop, but they do so near the archer, not the target, so it's almost entirely pointless on bows...

That's the way it works. The caltrops get thrown on the ground at your feet.

Varric uses it all the time when he gets within melee range (and unlike some abilities, the AI doesn't seem to move him into melee range just to use it). That still doesn't make it a useful skill, but the AI seems to be pretty smart about it.

[Icy Magebane]

That's the way it works. The caltrops get thrown on the ground at your feet.

Varric uses it all the time when he gets within melee range (and unlike some abilities, the AI doesn't seem to move him into melee range just to use it). That still doesn't make it a useful skill, but the AI seems to be pretty smart about it.

Well yeah, but when I made a crafted bow with "caltrops drop on hit," I thought that meant that the caltrops dropped from the arrow, not the bow... I guess that was just wishful thinking, because that would have been a fantastic weapon.  The normal skill and the crafted equipment version are probably better suited to melee characters though... I'd rather put Stealth or Evade on an archer to get them out of a close combat situation.

[Jestina]

I can't think of anything they are actually good with. Playing a rogue is a pain in the rear because the AI warriors can't hold aggro at all. Mages get ridiculous too...like repeatedly spamming a spell that some creature is immune to.

[sgy0003]

I found ally AI are strangely good with AOE attacks. No manual aims needed. They automatically use it against cluster of 3+ enemies.

 

Could be just me, though

[Bountron]

I've come to a point where my party members don't use anything anymore, except maybe the rogue poison thing by Varric and Barrier by the Mages...
Imagine my tank runs to an enemy group and does not use taunt! I do not know how to get rid of this nasty bug, maybe disabling everything might help.

[Jestina]

With the butchered tactics system it makes it very difficult to get them to be useful. I usually just set my AI party to follows themselves and then ignore them. If you don't have them follow themselves then they usually just stand there like idiots while something is attacking.

[GoodFella146]

I found Grappling Chain to be pretty useful on the warriors... they did continue using it against large enemies that cannot be dragged around, but it does ranged damage, so it's not a huge problem.

 

I'm actually surprised that you got any use out of Shield Wall or Block and Slash... with Shield Wall, the warrior would just sit there blocking indefinitely even if no enemies were nearby, and Block and Slash simply did not work at all from what I saw...

 

Also, I notice you didn't list many mage abilities, but the ones I found that worked very well were Chain Lightning, Immolate, Wall of Fire, and Energy Barrage... obviously Immolate and Wall of Fire might lose some if it's appeal if you play with friendly fire on...

 

Finally, I'll just add Caltrops to the list of abilities I won't touch with a ten foot pole.  I don't remember it working correctly for the AI even once, except for the version that you can get on weapons.  And even then, I thought it worked with ranged weapons and wound up being a waste when I put it on a bow... xD  The caltrops still drop, but they do so near the archer, not the target, so it's almost entirely pointless on bows...

 

I set the defensive skills like Shield Wall to preferred, then Shield Bash to just enabled and it works great.  

 

Grappling Chain I would save until I needed a quick disable.  It was primarily a gap closer or a disabler for me.

 

Chain Lightning is a terrible ability and I don't take it.  Edit: cuz I have friendly fire on

 

Immolate I never spec on my characters as I just don't think it's strong enough, so thus I've never tried that 1 with AI.  If we weren't limited to this 8 slot BS then I would probably use it.

 

Energy Barrage uses up too much mana for an ability that isn't disabling.  If I'm going to use that 1, I need to determine when and where (like with Static Cage).  I'm too scared of the AI using it before I have a chance to use a disabler in a pinch.  Now that you mention it, however, I could probably turn it on and tell them to keep 80% of mana in reserve.  That would probably work!  I constantly get a free spell thanks to Mana Surge.  I think I'm going to set it on right now!  (this is exactly why I made this thread lol, for ideas)

 

Traps I've 100% given up all hope on.  I wish they'd bring back the traps like in Origins.  That was actually useful/fun and I miss it.

[GuyNice]

I've come to a point where my party members don't use anything anymore, except maybe the rogue poison thing by Varric and Barrier by the Mages...
Imagine my tank runs to an enemy group and does not use taunt! I do not know how to get rid of this nasty bug, maybe disabling everything might help.

I too have encountered this bug on a number of occasions. Make sure you have the AI following themselves/the tank. Restarting the game fixed the issue for me whenever it occurred. Not sure what causes it.

[Bountron]

Thank GuyNice, youre a nice guy indeed. Normally, I already let the tank follow himself and the others him, so that they deal with the first incoming melee. Worked somewhat nice.
Interestingly, there is another bug when you cant change the controlled character. Quickload helps.

[Bountron]

What is the max amount of prefered skills? 2-3 ?
What is reasonable?

[GoodFella146]

What is the max amount of prefered skills? 2-3 ?
What is reasonable?

 

I would say anything that could help honestly, but since there are so few useful ones then it won't end up being many.

[GuyNice]

What is the max amount of prefered skills? 2-3 ?
What is reasonable?

Yeah I think 2-3 is the max you should set as preferred, otherwise the A.I will start ignoring other skills on the hotbar.

 

It also depends on how costly the skills are. If you have a bunch of 65 mana cost spells for example, setting more than a couple of spells to preferred will make the A.I practically ignore the 'enabled' costly spells.

 

Keeping preferred skills to a minimum seems to work better.

[GoodFella146]

Energy Barrage uses up too much mana for an ability that isn't disabling.  If I'm going to use that 1, I need to determine when and where (like with Static Cage).  I'm too scared of the AI using it before I have a chance to use a disabler in a pinch.  Now that you mention it, however, I could probably turn it on and tell them to keep 80% of mana in reserve.  That would probably work!  I constantly get a free spell thanks to Mana Surge.  I think I'm going to set it on right now!  (this is exactly why I made this thread lol, for ideas)

 

Update: This seems to be working really well.  Thanks Icy Magebane.

 

Update 2:  Actually I might've spoke too soon on this one.  They will cast it to drop below 80%, idk why I thought they wouldn't.  Going to try setting to 100% so they will at least have 50% for a panic Barrier or Dispel.  That should probably be ok.

[Icy Magebane]

Update: This seems to be working really well.  Thanks Icy Magebane.

 

Update 2:  Actually I might've spoke too soon on this one.  They will cast it to drop below 80%, idk why I thought they wouldn't.  Going to try setting to 100% so they will at least have 50% for a panic Barrier or Dispel.  That should probably be ok.

lol... so between this and the earlier post, not even one of my suggestions would work for you, eh?  Well, I tried.  xD

[teks]

Do you plan to update the op for reference?