167 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

The Tevinter's enslaving the elves in Denerim?  Haven and it's cult?  Origins was full of dark moments.

So wait, Tevinter enslaving the elves in Denerim was creepy, but Tevinter turning the tranquil into utility skulls is not? The Haven cult was creepy, but a cult of mage supremacists infiltrating half of Thedas while they work towards their little goal is I don't know, sunshine and rainbows?

Similarly I guess the Wardens manipulated to the point of desperation where they actually try to raise demon army to end the Blights once and for all before they kick the bucket, or the Templars feeding their own brethren the red lyrium despite knowing that will turn them into madness and anger-driven freaks... or your own spymaster poisoning people left and right, terrorizing them and doing all kind of brutal stuff to ensure you climb in power.

Heck, even these 'fetch quests' people complain about are loaded with bleak moments. Family members turning on one another because of different views, people trapped in situations they didn't want, struggling and failing to get out. Selling out others to live another day or save someone else. Or just trying to survive and ignore the best they can the madness around them.

If none of that is dark then you have some funny definition of dark, is what I'm saying.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

But... but... BEWBZ!

[zeypher]

I hate when the grittiness is hinted or just told in a bloody codex. Look if want to read about gritty dark stuff i can read a novel, a game is an interactive medium so make me interact make me see the dark and the gritty parts. If not then perhaps stop saying your world is dark when all i see is a typical kids style fairytale.

 

Thing is even in mass effect this started happening, lore codex say one thing, but the gameworld presented to me says another. There is a a reason people praise cdpr and witcher is because though flawed they try to show rather than tell how the setting is. If they say racial hatred they make you see it, while bioware just keeps hinting at it. 

 

i am honestly tired of playing a game with 2 different settings, one that i play in, the other that is in the lore/codex. Hell even skyrim makes you experience the dark parts, the horrible parts. Here you just keep hiding it all.

[atlantico]

Lolwut?  Baldur's Gate isn't an adult universe?

Lolwut? Baldur's Gate is a universe?

[atlantico]

Dragon Age has always had darker elements, and still does. Where it lacks is in it's presentation. All of this dark stuff is going on, but none of it has any impact on the player, because we're too busy constantly making jokes or flirting with our companions. I've said this before but DA (origins aside) is like somebody took some really dark themes and condensed them into an episode of Scooby Doo so that kids can enjoy it. Cartoony, full of humour, complete with references to pop culture.

 

It also doesn't help that most of the really dark stuff in DA:I is relegated to the codex, through letters and such.

 

Exactly, well said SnakeCode. The game is "sanitized", all dark things are relegated to Codex texts, off-screen or they're just implied. That's pretty obvious editorial policy.

[tmp7704]

I hate when the grittiness is hinted or just told in a bloody codex. Look if want to read about gritty dark stuff i can read a novel, a game is an interactive medium so make me interact make me see the dark and the gritty parts. If not then perhaps stop saying your world is dark when all i see is a typical kids style fairytale.

People slitting other people's throats, being tortured or getting turned into warped monstrosities, trenches filled with bodies and villages burnt down ... that sort of stuff kinda stopped being typical kids style fairytale couple hundred years ago. If you somehow see none of that, maybe you should actually pay attention to what's on screen when you play the game?

[atlantico]

People slitting other people's throats, being tortured or getting turned into warped monstrosities, trenches filled with bodies and villages burnt down ... that sort of stuff kinda stopped being typical kids style fairytale couple hundred years ago. If you somehow see none of that, maybe you should actually pay attention to what's on screen when you play the game?

All offscreen, implied or read in Codex. PG-13

[BammBamm]

Lolwut? Baldur's Gate is a universe?

 

its part of the forgotten realms loreset from the original pen and paper game

 

[atlantico]

its part of the forgotten realms loreset from the original pen and paper game

 

I've been playing Forgotten Realms since 1994, good times. My very first character got his first 5 levels in the Dales, but I knew of the Sword Coast. 

 

In that universe, Baldur's Gate is a city in Faerun. A big-ish city, but it is by itself no universe.

[BammBamm]

I've been playing Forgotten Realms since 1994, good times. My very first character got his first 5 levels in the Dales, but I knew of the Sword Coast. 

 

In that universe, Baldur's Gate is a city in Faerun. A big-ish city, but it is by itself no universe.

 

but its part of a fleshed out fantasy universe with lore, races, politics, etc. when i remember right there was a lot of references in the game to this universe, it just played in a tiny part of it. so when baldurs gate is no universe, elder scrolls, dragon age, guild wars, world of warcraft etc is none too

[atlantico]

but its part of a fleshed out fantasy universe with lore, races, politics, etc. when i remember right there was a lot of references in the game to this universe, it just played in a tiny part of it. so when baldurs gate is no universe, elder scrolls, dragon age, guild wars, world of warcraft etc is none too

 

Forgotten Realms is the universe, like Dragon Age is the universe, as is Elder Scrolls etc. That's what you're looking for. 

 

Baldur's Gate is either a city in the Forgotten Realms universe or a cRPG set in the Forgotten Realms universe. It is, by itself, not a universe. Except in the mind of a person posting on the internet whose major contribution was "lolwut". So while, team "lolwut" is lucky to have you, they are hardly deserving of such a fine player

[tmp7704]

All offscreen, implied or read in Codex. PG-13

... have you even played the game? Because you get the burnt down villages as early as the Hinterlands.

[atlantico]

... have you even played the game? Because you get the burnt down villages as early as the Hinterlands.

 

Yes, I've played the game and am quite happy with it. It's not beyond reproach, though. 

 

You'd get burnt down villages in any PG-13 movie without issue. What's your point?

[tmp7704]

You'd get burnt down villages in any PG-13 movie without issue. What's your point?

My point is claiming things are only "off screen, implied etc" when that's blatantly false doesn't disprove the original point I was making.

[In Exile]

All offscreen, implied or read in Codex. PG-13

 

It was the same in DA:O. None of the supposed horrible things are shown. Hell, the archetype of this DA:O had horror trope (Hespith) is told and not seen. Because in that context, "seen" would mean actively seeing her beaten and raped and who knows what else by the darkspawn, not hearing a creepy rhyme about it. 

[AutumnWitch]

I dont know... seems they are so concerned about being PC they sort of lost their way. DAI could have easily been the darkest and creepiest of all the games. (the haunted mansion was good tho but not in the same way).

 

There was also no scary desire demons, or crazy blood mages or even no dark spawn up close. (Cory doesnt count).

 

DAI had a HUGE problem with "atmosphere" either direction. Once you get to Skyhold its mostly emotionally devoid to the extent you just feel as if you are going through the motions to play the came rather than save people you care for.

[atlantico]

It was the same in DA:O. None of the supposed horrible things are shown. Hell, the archetype of this DA:O had horror trope (Hespith) is told and not seen. Because in that context, "seen" would mean actively seeing her beaten and raped and who knows what else by the darkspawn, not hearing a creepy rhyme about it. 

 

One one hand no one said that DA:O was super dark, but compared to DA:I it is. Not just because the thing you're referring to has no counterpart in DA:I, but many other things.

 

Implied or otherwise. There's no shopkeeper in Denerim explaining how an Orlesian chevalier raped her because it was his right to do so. There are no evil spirits roaming the lands murdering orphans. There are no greedy arls wiping out whole families just to gain power and there's no graphic blood splattering violence. 

 

The DA universe is now much more like Forgotten Realms, and that's fine as such - but I prefer the darker version where bad things regularly happen to good people. Where good and bad aren't as clear. Where you're not spared to see violence. Where cruel and unjust things happen, things that are out of the hands of the player. 

 

In DA:I the universe seems much kinder. Again, not a bad thing, there are games and campaign settings that do that really well. But to pretend that there hasn't been a tonal shift in the DA universe between DA:O and DA:I is something I can't pretend didn't happen.

[In Exile]

One one hand no one said that DA:O was super dark, but compared to DA:I it is. Not just because the thing you're referring to has no counterpart in DA:I, but many other things.

 

Implied or otherwise. There's no shopkeeper in Denerim explaining how an Orlesian chevalier raped her because it was his right to do so. There are no evil spirits roaming the lands murdering orphans. There are no greedy arls wiping out whole families just to gain power and there's no graphic blood splattering violence. 

 

The DA universe is now much more like Forgotten Realms, and that's fine as such - but I prefer the darker version where bad things regularly happen to good people. Where good and bad aren't as clear. Where you're not spared to see violence. Where cruel and unjust things happen, things that are out of the hands of the player. 

 

In DA:I the universe seems much kinder. Again, not a bad thing, there are games and campaign settings that do that really well. But to pretend that there hasn't been a tonal shift in the DA universe between DA:O and DA:I is something I can't pretend didn't happen.

 

You're wrong. While nothing is as well done as Hespith, there is content that is equally if not more dark. Even if you ignore the revelation of what's being done to the Tranquil, the entire Crestwood scene is dark - huge swaths of refugees left to drown underground. That's dark. 

 

As for greedy Arls - literally your first war-table mission is about one who wants to evict some refugees. There's the potential genocide of the Lavellan clan if you play as an elf. The massacre in the Hinterlands being perpetrated by the mages/templars. Innocent farmers killed for no other reason. 

 

DA:I does, as far as I know, avoid portraying rape, but that doesn't make it more sanitized despite the fetishistic obsession in some corners with its inclusion. 

 

There's no tonal shift. 

[northsidelunatic]

One one hand no one said that DA:O was super dark, but compared to DA:I it is. Not just because the thing you're referring to has no counterpart in DA:I, but many other things.

 

Implied or otherwise. There's no shopkeeper in Denerim explaining how an Orlesian chevalier raped her because it was his right to do so. There are no evil spirits roaming the lands murdering orphans. There are no greedy arls wiping out whole families just to gain power and there's no graphic blood splattering violence. 

 

The DA universe is now much more like Forgotten Realms, and that's fine as such - but I prefer the darker version where bad things regularly happen to good people. Where good and bad aren't as clear. Where you're not spared to see violence. Where cruel and unjust things happen, things that are out of the hands of the player. 

 

In DA:I the universe seems much kinder. Again, not a bad thing, there are games and campaign settings that do that really well. But to pretend that there hasn't been a tonal shift in the DA universe between DA:O and DA:I is something I can't pretend didn't happen.

yep  lots of neat things in dao held my attention like the decision to kill connor the the elder tree,  , killing the doomsayer, this game is a step back in mechanics from dao  , and not even close to skyrim I can go around and kill a whole village of people with finishing moves, this game  there isnt a lot of interaction with the world, the dev  want to put his touch of naarative spin on it and lots of people dont like it,  the graphics are to pretty  and idc for the artwork, armor looks like tinfoil  ,  generic enemies generic armor's for the most part, very poor quality

[tmp7704]

and there's no graphic blood splattering violence.

Adamant fortress charge

Spoiler

Sera dealing with, a bonus, greedy arl killing people just to gain some power:

Spoiler

yup, there's no violence and no blood splatters there, at all. Or is it just not grisly enough because there's no camera zoom and bullet time pan around of the smashed body parts like it's some episode of CSI?

[In Exile]

Adamant fortress charge

Spoiler

Sera dealing with, a bonus, greedy arl killing people just to gain some power:

Spoiler

yup, there's no violence and no blood splatters there, at all. Or is it just not grisly enough because there's no camera zoom and bullet time pan around of the smashed body parts like it's some episode of CSI?

 

I forgot about that Arl. The one who basically said he was perpetrating massacres so that he can steal some land from a neighbour, who was doing the same. 

[Akka le Vil]

I guess the difficulty is that very little is scary when you're in a squad of heavily armed warriors, assassins, and wizards who throw fire and lightning around for fun.

 

I disagree. On the contrary, true scary things are completely unrelated to fighting. It's what's creepy, what's unknown, what's abominable which is scary, not the size of the fireball a foe can launch.

 

Also, the real reason you're not scared is meta-knowledge : you know you're not risking your life, you know you're one quickload away from being safe, and above all, you know the developpers will never put you in an hopeless situation. In real life, if someone threaten you, you have no idea how really dangerous he can be. In game, if a monster threaten you, either you see a number telling you exactly how dangerous he is, or you can safely fall back on "the designer wouldn't make me fight an impossibly tough foe" (and if he does, then he'll give you a way to escape).

[atlantico]

You're wrong. While nothing is as well done as Hespith, there is content that is equally if not more dark. Even if you ignore the revelation of what's being done to the Tranquil, the entire Crestwood scene is dark - huge swaths of refugees left to drown underground. That's dark. 

 

As for greedy Arls - literally your first war-table mission is about one who wants to evict some refugees. There's the potential genocide of the Lavellan clan if you play as an elf. The massacre in the Hinterlands being perpetrated by the mages/templars. Innocent farmers killed for no other reason. 

 

DA:I does, as far as I know, avoid portraying rape, but that doesn't make it more sanitized despite the fetishistic obsession in some corners with its inclusion. 

 

There's no tonal shift. 

Wow you claiming I'm wrong and not backing it up with anything except things that support my case is amazing! So insightful!

 

Why do you even bother to reply, you're not saying anything. You're just claiming. You realize the difference, yes? 

 

Evidently you don't see a difference between the arl betraying you and your family, taking part in that even and a war table click. OK, fine. 

 

And to the person who posted those videos above, yeah there's hardly any blood there, just clean armors and momentary dark matter that might be blood but disappears so fast that it's probably not.

[tmp7704]

yeah there's hardly any blood there, just clean armors and momentary dark matter that might be blood but disappears so fast that it's probably not.

This is screenshot material, one to put next to "cognitive dissonance" in the dictionary.

Seriously, aren't you tired of moving these goal posts? Especially when it comes to the point you have to invent such silly excuses?

[_Aine_]

I think a real reason that this story doesn't feel as dark is that there is no real reason for us, as a main character, to care.  We are the only one who (apparently) can save everything and yet it feels like we are always kept at arms length from the emotion of every problem.   There is no real personal investment, probably because we don't actually know much about our characters or their histories either.   I don't even know what my character did before I got there.  Why do I even want to help these people?  

 

And yet, what we do have in front of us that is supposed to be "scary" I imagine, isn't because *it* is presented to us completely.  There is little unknown here.   I didn't feel once in a situation where I was truly unsafe or that there was a lot to lose.  It felt kind of sanitized as circumstances and presentation, and as an individual I mostly felt insulated from any potential darkness to the situation.  

 

For me though, darkness or maturity is not necessarily found in what is shown, how grisly, mature etc.  For me it is about exploiting my emotions and making it difficult, dark in terms of choice and consequence.  What is unseen or unknown, even in terms of unforeseeable consequences decisions later (as long as you are helped to FEEL and live the impact of it, not just read it on the war table or random text popup), this could be important to creating a creepy, dark world.