If break them even a little, I'm gone. I already dislike some of the territory DAI treads. But I wouldn't take away anyone else's fun.. Like I said at the start, I'd just stop playing. I'm happy enough with these 3 games... if I ignore some things.
They already did that in DAI. Hello Fade Hell with Lovecraftian thing.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Torture as a welcome part of their society.
"No."
Sounds like being a hostage in a Syrian city right now.
Sounds like being a hostage in a Syrian city right now.
I condemn a lot of places 
, from my home to across the globe. I have hope in people though, and an eventual (even if takes 1000s of years) system that benefits everyone, not even just the 90-99% 'happy' ones of the fictional Qun.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I condemn a lot of places
I didn't condemn it precisely.. but I will. More of an observation.
Good luck on finding that system. In the meantime, I'll just be here...... like... really here. 
.
I didn't condemn it precisely.. but I will. More of an observation.
Good luck on finding that system. In the meantime, I'll just be here...... like... really here.
And I'll be long dead when that system arrives unless we somehow unlock immortality. No assumption here of a 'perfect way'.
The Qun.... Communism!
Torture as a welcome part of their society.
"No."
(EDIT: I say this about any society. Once it welcomes torture as an institution for any reason, I condemn it. And some Western nations are right on the edge of doing so, but won't.)
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I don't think the CIA cares about converting the minds of it's detainees. Plenty of guys praying 24/7 to Allah in Gauntanamo.
That isn't to say torture is good though. Just the goals are different.
I don't think the CIA cares about converting the minds of it's detainees. Plenty of guys praying 24/7 to Allah in Gauntanamo.
That isn't to say torture is good though. Just the goals are different.
This.
I care that torture is happening. I REALLY CARE if that torture is done to change the entire mindset of the subject. SCREW that.
Imprisoning someone without sufficient food and water is torture.
I suppose they could be setting it up a Tevinter's magisterium fueled by blood sacrifices from slaves vs Qunari where everyone's brain-washed and all the mages are bound and have their mouths sewn shut...
But, as others have said, that's going to be a really hard sell.
If that's what it takes to actually challenge the moral compass of players again, I can't say I'd mind it. Between those two, I'd be quite capable of choosing either way on subsequent plays. I won't lie that I sympathize with the Qun a whole lot more than with the White Chantry we've been shown thus far in the setting. Despite little exposure to them as of yet, the Imperium too holds more fascination to me than their southern neighbours.
And no, I would not find it in any way comparable to "sympathizing" with ME's Reapers, as suggested by another user, far from it. They are not immortal machines with some obscure imperative driving their cyclical campaign of genocide, what we are talking about here are two competing nations in a lower-tech world with very different laws, of the natural, cultural and legal kind governing it; the outcome of such a conflict definitely would not manipulate the very essence of that selfsame world, which the ME-trilogy could boil down to.
It would certainly help if BW could take a step back and drive home the point that our quaint 21st ct. values need not apply in a fictional society where it is still taken for granted that the rule of the day is, for the most part humanity first, and nobility in charge.
Case in point in DA:I: did noone take note of what can be gathered of the Freemen of the Dales's initial agenda in their defection? Ridding Orlais of the nobility's rule which they - rightly - blame for the destructive civil war it's stuck in, so the people can rule instead. Ignoring them being reduced to dupes of Corypheus - why though; would have been neat bringing them over to the Inquisition as another tool against the civil war factions -, I am actually fairly surprised noone appears to bring this up.
Torture as a welcome part of their society.
"No."
(EDIT: I say this about any society. Once it welcomes torture as an institution for any reason, I condemn it. And some Western nations are right on the edge of doing so, but won't.)
Thing is, despite BW going out of their way keeping torture off screen - rather ironic, given the game's title and that of the organization players build up and all its associations -, it's still done in the Inquisition's ranks as well within the game. It's also made apparent that torture is a valid tool in the DA-setting, like it or not. That BW aren't willing to directly show the 'good guys' doing it and only use it for cheap effect of driving home how much worse the 'bad guys' are I'd see as an unfortunate omission in that regard.
It would further help to keep in mind that Thedas is not our world; it's a fictional setting. Plus, I don't think talking about that specific issue will lead anywhere here.
(Although it sure is amusing how Mr Noble Peace Price Winner(sic!) essentially wants to pursue no legal action whatever as a consequence of that certain affair, but anyway.)
I'm okay with moral relativism here.
I just put the Qun at the very very bottom of the list.
Don't take that as me being a Chantry supporter. Or even an Inquisition supporter. I'm glad that my Inquisitor is able to intervene about that sort of thing.
The guys options were...
1) become a murdering bandit and be hunted as such
2) go through 3 days of hell and return to normal life as if nothing happened.
That sounds kind to me. However brutal the process, it saved his life. That's a hell of alot more then the Cia gives their prisoners.
No, it sounds like 3 days of hell and having to act like, and everyone else acting like nothing happened..
Thing is, despite BW going out of their way keeping torture off screen - rather ironic, given the game's title and that of the organization players build up and all its associations -, it's still done in the Inquisition's ranks as well within the game. It's also made apparent that torture is a valid tool in the DA-setting, like it or not. That BW aren't willing to directly show the 'good guys' doing it and only use it for cheap effect of driving home how much worse the 'bad guys' are I'd see as an unfortunate omission in that regard.
It would further help to keep in mind that Thedas is not our world; it's a fictional setting. Plus, I don't think talking about that specific issue will lead anywhere here.
(Although it sure is amusing how Mr Noble Peace Price Winner(sic!) essentially wants to pursue no legal action whatever as a consequence of that certain affair, but anyway.)
As posted above, you can draw the line between using torture as 'enhanced interrogation' and using torture to change someone's mindset.
It does seem that they decided to soften it in DA:I with this weird aqun-athlok concept (despite everything said about qunari prior to DA:I) and apparently ben-hassrath who are basically sex workers for anyone interested (should I remind people that qunari become assigned to their profession when they're 12? Only I find that disturbingly weird? Okay...). Next game we'll learn that they definitely do not put their mages on leashes. No, if a mage dcide they're not a mage, then qunari just accept it because reasons and everyone is happy XD
But I wouldn't call the Qun monstrous. Even prior to DA:I. It is one of the most equal societies of Thedas. Compared to orlesians and tevinterians, damn, they're angels
I found it interesting that, once again, you can't talk to a member of the Qun about their treatment of mages. This drove me nuts in MotA, and I noticed it hasn't improved in this game. Why can't a mage Inquisitor question Iron Bull more heavily about a mage's role in the Qun? Also, why can't you ask him why he treats mages more like regular people than the chained beasts who's very words are demon ridden? I know that wasn't his role in the Qun, but I hated that I couldn't ask him about his thoughts on it.
Twice now we've had active and outspoken members of the Qunari (Sten was fairly quiet on that front,) and neither time could you confront them about the Qun's stance on mages. I adore Iron Bull, so this isn't a bash against the character. I am getting annoyed that I can't go, "So, what's up with mages in the Qun and how do you (Tallis or Bull) honestly feel about it?"
That's been my biggest problem with the Qun and we have yet to be allowed to ask the opinions of party members.
That's without mentioning my dwarf character not having a "WTF?" moment after her dream with Solas. I'd figure that a dwarf dreaming would be a freak out, but no mention of it.
I found it interesting that, once again, you can't talk to a member of the Qun about their treatment of mages. This drove me nuts in MotA, and I noticed it hasn't improved in this game. Why can't a mage Inquisitor question Iron Bull more heavily about a mage's role in the Qun? Also, why can't you ask him why he treats mages more like regular people than the chained beasts who's very words are demon ridden? I know that wasn't his role in the Qun, but I hated that I couldn't ask him about his thoughts on it.
Twice now we've had active and outspoken members of the Qunari (Sten was fairly quiet on that front,) and neither time could you confront them about the Qun's stance on mages. I adore Iron Bull, so this isn't a bash against the character. I am getting annoyed that I can't go, "So, what's up with mages in the Qun and how do you (Tallis or Bull) honestly feel about it?"
That's been my biggest problem with the Qun and we have yet to be allowed to ask the opinions of party members.
That's without mentioning my dwarf character not having a "WTF?" moment after her dream with Solas. I'd figure that a dwarf dreaming would be a freak out, but no mention of it.
True
Sten wasn't vocal about it but he definitelly had a strong opinion
Bull tho
Bull tho is as un-qunari as a qunari can be
Yeah the re educators when bull turned himself in did not what the hell to even do with him so they sent him south he is actually a "problem" child of the ben hassrath but he is too good at his job hence why the elf says many within the group think he is Tal-Vashoth already. He is not really a good Qunari. XD
Bull is either a Tal-Vashoth in denial, or a devout that is straying from the path. His words and actions imo can go either way.
He certainly is NOT some absolute example of perfect Qunari.
<snip>
I think DAI challenges the morals of the player well enough, as long as the player stops and starts to pay attention to little details:
In the winter palace quest, they all deserve each other there, all four of them. The whole Orlesian society is a bit touched in the head with their "Game".
Crestwood's Mayor and that village is another case, several WT missions too and you can add Leliana and Josephine in too. While choosing between black and black is challenging, choosing between millions shades of grey isn't easy, unless you mean something else perhaps?
I was wondering about the Freemen of the Dales, actually, there should be an option to recruit them, I mean you do recruit bunch of religious fanatics left and right, why not them? On the other hand you are given the other side of the coin of their organization with Fairbanks.
As for the torture I think you have a valid point there, but only if you consider the Inquisition to be a good guy, I personally don't. To me the way your Inqusitor gets dragged constantly into mud, even if his/her motivation is "to help people" is one of the things that was well done in the game, it's nuanced, it's subtle, it's very well played.
Ppfft.. you honestly believe torture doesn't exist in thedas? Hell, the Cia uses torture(I haven't actually heard of it in a few years but I'm sure it still happens) and no one says anything about it. And honestly, that story sounds better then straight up torture.
Well I bet none is saying about it since most people didn't know about it. I was quite shocked when I found out that thing like that exist in the civilized country.
Well I bet none is saying about it since most people didn't know about it. I was quite shocked when I found out that thing like that exist in THE civilized country.
I definitely think Bioware will gradually soften the Qun.
There were a couple of things in the game to make me believe this. Id prefer not to say which ones, as its no doubt going to cause controversy, but one was the most lore breaking thing I have ever seen.
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