34 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

Cole is a spirit who has taken the form of a boy, a human body, which is a fairly complex thing to mimic. Surely the spirit doesn't understand all of the intricacies of the human biology, and yet it has created blood, flesh, hair, nerves, eyes, a brain (ok, I never saw evidence of a physical brain).

What does this ability mean?

Can spirits understand the details of human biology so completely that they can create a person almost perfectly?

If a spirit doesn't understand a human, can a spirit simply mimic anything it sees if it wants to even if it doesn't understand it?

Or could it be that some spirits, unbeknownst to themselves, simply have the ability to create a person, because somehow they are already connected to living things?

[Big I]

Can spirits understand the details of human biology so completely that they can create a person almost perfectly?

 

That's Envy's schtick, yep.

[Sah291]

I don't think the spirit created Cole's body. There was a real Cole, and he wasn't yet a corpse like Kristoff in Awakening. I think the way it's explained, the real Cole was very close to death (badly beaten) at the time when the spirit entered his body...or had just very recently passed, so the real Cole's spirit was already gone. 

 

I think maybe that's what Cole meant about not being able to help the real Cole. He was able to keep the body alive, but it was too late for his spirit. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think the spirit created Cole's body. There was a real Cole, and he wasn't yet a corpse like Kristoff in Awakening. I think the way it's explained, the real Cole was very close to death (badly beaten) at the time when the spirit entered his body...or had just very recently passed, so the real Cole's spirit was already gone. 

 

I think maybe that's what Cole meant about not being able to help the real Cole. He was able to keep the body alive, but it was too late for his spirit. 

The real Cole's body was cremated, so Cole can't be possessing it. Plus Solas says he is not possessing anything. 

[phaonica]

Does Cole eat or sleep? Maybe the inside of his body isn't made of the same stuff as other humans.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Does Cole eat or sleep? Maybe the inside of his body isn't made of the same stuff as other humans.

In Asunder we learn he does sleep, but he doesn't eat. In fact, food grosses him out. 

[Precursor Meta]

I feel sorry for Cole. He just has a sort of looming depression about him.

[Mummy22kids]

Actually I don't think it's really created any of those things- just the illusion of some of them.  Cole does say he didn't know clothes came off so we can assume that the "clothes" he's wearing are an illusion too, since otherwise he'd know they came off.

[SporkFu]

Actually I don't think it's really created any of those things- just the illusion of some of them.  Cole does say he didn't know clothes came off so we can assume that the "clothes" he's wearing are an illusion too, since otherwise he'd know they came off.

Does that mean I'll never be able to wear his hat? 

 

Cole is a spirit who has taken the form of a boy, a human body, which is a fairly complex thing to mimic. Surely the spirit doesn't understand all of the intricacies of the human biology, and yet it has created blood, flesh, hair, nerves, eyes, a brain (ok, I never saw evidence of a physical brain).

What does this ability mean?

Can spirits understand the details of human biology so completely that they can create a person almost perfectly?

If a spirit doesn't understand a human, can a spirit simply mimic anything it sees if it wants to even if it doesn't understand it?

Or could it be that some spirits, unbeknownst to themselves, simply have the ability to create a person, because somehow they are already connected to living things?

I dunno if it's such a stretch to imagine spirits being capable of creating a functional physical form. Having the will and the desire, being motivated enough, to do it is something else. Maybe most of them just don't care to. Maybe not all are capable. Maybe it's tied into the purity of the spirit who tries. We haven't (yet) heard of any demons doing this. Maybe they can't, which is why they resort to possession instead. 

[miraclemight]

Does that mean I'll never be able to wear his hat? 

 

 

Well, his hat is 'restricted to Cole'. I used to think it was for the sake of fashion (the same reason you can't wear Vivienne's helms), but now that you mention it, it's probably because it's not an actual hat at all.

[SporkFu]

Well, his hat is 'restricted to Cole'. I used to think it was for the sake of fashion (the same reason you can't wear Vivienne's helms), but now that you mention it, it's probably because it's not an actual hat at all.

Yeah, I know, but it's such an awesome hat that I wanna be able to wear it. 

[Obadiah]

Actually I don't think it's really created any of those things- just the illusion of some of them.  Cole does say he didn't know clothes came off so we can assume that the "clothes" he's wearing are an illusion too, since otherwise he'd know they came off.

He said that in the game, right? In the novel Asunder he saw Evangeline undressing, so he must know.

...
I dunno if it's such a stretch to imagine spirits being capable of creating a functional physical form. Having the will and the desire, being motivated enough, to do it is something else. Maybe most of them just don't care to. Maybe not all are capable. Maybe it's tied into the purity of the spirit who tries. We haven't (yet) heard of any demons doing this. Maybe they can't, which is why they resort to possession instead.

Maybe it is an ability like fade-walking? Some mages can walk in the fade, some fade spirits can walk in reality?

[TEWR]

Way I understood it is that Cole, being a spirit of Compassion, came to the real Cole in his darkest moments and reached out to try and help, but could do little more then speak gentle words in his ear, which though the real Cole was grateful that someone was with him in his final moments, the spirit felt like it had failed Cole. He does say as much

 

And that in so doing, its compassion and sorrow allowed it to assume the real Cole's form, but without magic -- that is to say, without being a mage. As Cole is a spirit, it naturally has magical capabilities.

 

I'd say, in a sense, a mix of his nature as a being of compassion and perhaps his despair at having failed allowed him to assume a complex form. Polar opposites melding together in him. He felt Cole's pain but felt lost due to having failed, which I'd view as a very human thing.

 

I don't think Cole's greatest fear is just despair, it's becoming a Demon of Despair as well.

[SporkFu]

Maybe it is an ability like fade-walking? Some mages can walk in the fade, some fade spirits can walk in reality?

That's a possibility, too. Could be an explanation for why he's the only one who's done it... err, that we know of. 

[Gervaise]

I think Cole may be there to give us a clue about things in the past and why certain races seemed immortal and certain members were regarded as gods.   Cole is unique in the present Thedas but I doubt it is the only time this has occurred.   The fact that he can focus on either his spiritual aspect or his material one is also significant.   If you encourage him to embrace his spirit side he has less emotional range but you could argue remains truer to himself.   Encouraging him to embrace his material being, gives him a greater emotional range and may connect him more closely to the material world but you can question whether that is a good thing.   If you consider being a spirit is inferior to being a material being then obviously, like Varric, you think you have helped him "grow" as a "real" boy.    If you consider that a spirit such as he is a rare and precious thing, like Solas, whose existence has equal validity, then may be he is better off without our "corrupting" range of emotions.    A spirit is essentially an embodiment of one prime emotion or attribute and a demon is just that spirit twisted into its complete opposite.     Cole fears becoming a demon of despair; more so because for a short time I would say he was one, when he killed Lambert, although he might argue that he was driven by compassion for those that Lambert would harm rather than a desire to cause Lambert despair.

 

As for his appearance, if spirits can mimic what they know of the real world in the Fade, then it follows that he should be able to mimic was he can see right in front of him.

[caradoc2000]

Cole is a spirit who has taken the form of a boy, a human body, which is a fairly complex thing to mimic. Surely the spirit doesn't understand all of the intricacies of the human biology, and yet it has created blood, flesh, hair, nerves, eyes, a brain (ok, I never saw evidence of a physical brain).

What does this ability mean?

Ah, the wonders of 3D printing

[Dermain]

Yeah, I know, but it's such an awesome hat that I wanna be able to wear it. 

 

Sylvius, You, and I should start a thread asking BioWare to let us wear that hat then.

 

 

As for his appearance, if spirits can mimic what they know of the real world in the Fade, then it follows that he should be able to mimic was he can see right in front of him.

 

If you take Cole (as well as Solas) to deal with the spirit of Control in Old Crestwood, there is a short discussion that the spirit of Control is trying to replicate what it does in the fade or something along those lines. Cole tries to explain how the spirit could stay in Thedas, but the spirit almost instantly cuts him off.

[Luckyanna]

Cole does say he didn't know clothes came off so we can assume that the "clothes" he's wearing are an illusion too, since otherwise he'd know they came off.

 

He said that in the game, right? In the novel Asunder he saw Evangeline undressing, so he must know.

 

Is that the bit he says about Cullen? Maybe he just doesn't realize it's something all humans can do. He also asks Cassie if she ever takes off her armor and talks to it, so it could be just a Cullen thing, since Cole has only ever seen him in his Commander mode.

[Ranadiel Marius]

My take on the implications of Cole is that the origin of humanity is that humanity's origin is that of spirits that became more complex. Meaning that the reason Cole is able to recreate so many intiricate details that he doesn't fully understand is because it is something akin to part of a natural life cycle that has rarely occured since the creation of the Veil.

 

Part of what leads me to this is a conversation between Solas and Cole if you choose the human path for Cole.

Solas: How do you feel, Cole, now that you dealt with the Templar?

Cole: I don't know. He hurt me... hurt the real Cole. I'm angry at him.

Cole: I can't let that go. I have to become more, let it make me real.

Solas: You may well become fully human, after all. I never thought to see it.

Cole: When did you see it before?

Solas: I did not say that I had.

Cole: No, you didn't. It's harder to hear, sometimes. Sorry.

Solas: Good luck, Cole. You have taken a difficult road.

 

Now then there are two important details in this conversation. 1. Our resident fade expert believes that it is possible for Cole to become "fully human." 2. If I am reading between the lines properly, Solas has seen it happen before. He says that he never said it, which is true, but Cole is able to hear thoughts. So my interpretation of that dialogue is that Cole heard a fragment of a thought of Solas remembering a previous time he had seen it but wasn't able to get a good grasp on the thought because of his weakening hearing thanks to him becoming more human. 

[Korva]

Cole's clothes are real, not conjured or an illusion. Dorian asks as much and kind of regrets it because Cole accidentally sasses his (Dorian's) fashion sense.

 

His body is also real, and is and always was "fully human" as per his own words if you make him more human -- but the more spirit-like he is, the less he needs to take care of it, apparently. In another conversation with Dorian, he reveals that he doesn't need food or sleep because "the old songs pull me". He bleeds when injured, but it's left unclear why in another conversation that leaves Dorian confused. Gotta love those two.

[caradoc2000]

Cole's clothes are real

His hat is surreal.

[TEWR]

Solas remembering a previous time he had seen it but wasn't able to get a good grasp on the thought because of his weakening hearing thanks to him becoming more human.

 

 

To be fair, Solas has shown that he can exert a degree of control over Cole. So for all we know it's less that Cole has a harder time hearing thoughts and more because Solas is putting up a very large amount of interference.

[errantknight]

Ah, the wonders of 3D printing

This is funny, but I think it's not that far off,  His body may be flesh and blood, but we don't know that is functions exactly as a human one would. In fact it probably doesn't. He can sustain it without food and sleep appears to be optional.

 

To me, the most interesting thing about cole is that he is a creature that exists in a state somewhere between spirit demon and human. He has elements of all three. He's compassionate and wants to help like a spirit. He's flesh and blood without posession, sort of like a human. He kills and makes people forget like a demon--and I suspect that's what sustains him. Cole was worried about being bound, but I think what's most dangerous about him is that he could just decide to take actions that would put him in the fulll on demon camp. Essentially, he already has, it was only his motivations that kept him in the spirit catagory. You can view him as any of the three and not be wrong.

[Obadiah]

This is funny, but I think it's not that far off, His body may be flesh and blood, but we don't know that is functions exactly as a human one would. In fact it probably doesn't. He can sustain it without food and sleep appears to be optional.
...

Darkspawn are supposedly sustained by just the Blight/Taint. I wonder if there is some connection there between what Cole is, sustained by the Fade, and what the Darkspawn are.

[leaguer of one]

I don't think the spirit created Cole's body. There was a real Cole, and he wasn't yet a corpse like Kristoff in Awakening. I think the way it's explained, the real Cole was very close to death (badly beaten) at the time when the spirit entered his body...or had just very recently passed, so the real Cole's spirit was already gone. 

 

I think maybe that's what Cole meant about not being able to help the real Cole. He was able to keep the body alive, but it was too late for his spirit. 

Making Cole more human makes it clear that is not a corpse. Every mage in the game says he is not using a dead body or the original Cole's body.