160 réponses à ce sujet

[TheodoricFriede]

The what?

[Rekkampum]

Ah ah ah, dont put words in my mouth. Thats very rude you know?

 

Dorian is, in fact, one of my favorite characters. And, as i had already said, i believe his homosexuality to be irrelevant. He does play numerous roles out side of "Gay guy. he is a fascinating character, and the glimpse into Tavinter that i have wanted for years. THOSE are the important aspects of Dorian.

 

So if those are the parts of him that matter-- His wit, charm, and attitudes towards mages and Tavinter politics-- then why on earth is his PERSONAL QUEST about nothing more than him being gay?!

 

"I prefer the company of men, my father disapproves" and "You tried to turn me straight" dont have very many paths of intent.

 

Putting words in your mouth? Being gay is just as important, but it isn't what defines him. HIs father literally says that his orientation was "the last resort of a weak mind" and it's clear that it's not more about him gay rather than preserving his own legacy, especially in terms of how Dorian views Tevinter society, which Dorian aptly calls him out on. Their society is so obsessed with success and prestige that his father was willing to use blood magic to "change him" and it's clearly implied that it isn't the only thing he'd try to change about him. His being homosexual is incidental and his father believes that it's a phase he's using to rebel against him because of how different his views are of society.

It's funny that you missed all of that.

[TheodoricFriede]

. HIs father literally says that his orientation was "the last resort of a weak mind"

Oh... Oh wow... He was talking about Blood Magic.

 

Dorian was making reference to the fact that, even though his father taught him to hate blood magic, he was still willing to use it to change him.

 

It's funny that you missed all of that.

Which makes this statement all the more "funny".

[AshenEndymion]

Anyone who actually believes that the true purpose of this quest is to be "anti-arranged marriage" is either blind or fooling themselves.

 

This.  So much this.

 

I think people who deny that are forgetting one simple fact...  If this were a "standard" anti-arranged marriage issue, between a straight man/woman and his/her parent, there would have been two additional dialogue options for the Inquisitor:  Agreeing with the parent on the issue("Arranged marriages aren't that evil"), and leaving the two at the start of the conversation upon hearing the issue("I don't give a **** about this, I'm out").

 

That neither of those options exist in Dorian's quest indicates, to me, that this is a Very Special Quest.  If one obtains it, they are required to treat the quest differently, and the character differently, because the character is gay, and that's the only thing that matters...

[Rekkampum]

Oh... Oh wow... He was talking about Blood Magic.

 

Dorian was making reference to the fact that, even though his father taught him to hate blood magic, he was still willing to use it to change him.

 

Which makes this statement all the more "funny".

 

Oh! That was a derp. I must've been thinking about something else.

 

Nonetheless, his father didn't care about him being gay as long as he "pretended" so he could preserve the family legacy, given how important lineages in their society are. Dorian explains that families in Tevinter intermarry to raise their status and produce the best "mages" and that he wasn't so concerned with successs that he was going to pretend, especially since Dorian's family are nobility. They have no problem if a person marries and sleeps with slaves, but openly choosing not to intermarry is considered deviant and social suicide. Dorian is obviously concerned with not compromising who he is to be successful but his father was so obsessed with preserving their family line that he was willing to "change him" so that he could retain his prestige, and his father recognizes the mistake he made in putting their social status over his son's personal convictions. It's clearly about more than his gayness.

 

EDIT: changed a few minor grammar gaffes.

[daveliam]

Of course Dorian's sexuality plays a role in his views on Tevinter, but it goes beyond that and I think that this is what his personal quest represents.  His father isn't anti-gay; he's "anti-gay if it gets in the way of you doing your 'duty' to family by procreating".  Dorian wasn't unwilling to get married and play along just because he's gay.  Sure that's part of it, but not the entire story.  He's a rebel.  He's anti-establishment.  That's part of Dorian's personality.  He's willful and defiant.  His sexuality gives him a platform with which to buck the establishment.  There have been plenty of gay magisters who did play along (hinted at by the codex entry and the dialogue in the quest).  Dorian isn't the type to compromise his ideals.  That's what the quest is about.  It's a blending of the classic "you don't approve of me because I'm gay" and the classic "you don't understand me and don't know what's best for me so I'm rebelling" parent-child stories.  It also explains his views on Tevinter writ large.  His father comes to represent the worst of his culture and Dorian's resentment towards him bleeds into his views on Tevinter. 

 

As far as it coming across as a PSA?  Oh well.  Bioware isn't exactly subtle most of the time in their writing.  This was a deeply personal story from a writer who drew upon his own experiences.  He's biased and, therefore, the story plays out with a bias towards a particular viewpoint.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

I personally found this story to be very well-written and I can totally relate to it.  Situations like this (minus the whole generations of magister bloodline part) are surprisingly common for gay people.  I would be disappointed if they did a similar story with the next gay character, because then it starts to feel cliche.  But they have had five gay characters ever.  None of the other characters have had their sexuality play an important role in their story (Juhani, Steve, Samantha, and Sera).  To tell this story was important, in my opinion, because there are thousands of fans who can relate to it.  It's a story that I've not seen in a video game before and it was refreshing to see it in that medium.  At least that's my take on it. 

[TheodoricFriede]

 

It's clearly about more than his gayness.

 

 

You say that, but all im saying and hearing, all these threads, basically boil down to, "Because he is gay, and his father doesn't like it."

 

Now, if Dorians father was to, perhaps, say something to the effect of "This has nothing to do with who you sleep with, it has to do with duty!" then i would be more inclined to believe you. He doesn't, however.

 

As i said, Dorian being gay is not a problem for me. I support the fact that gay characters are being put in games.

 

What I dont like is that Dorian's Personal Quest is so focused on him being gay. I believe Personal Quests are meant to define the character, and i would prefer Dorians definition not to just be "Gay Man", when you and i both know that there is much much more to him.

[DuskWanderer]

Oh! That was a derp. I must've been thinking about something else.

 

Nonetheless, his father didn't care about him being gay as long as he "pretended" so he could preserve the family legacy, given how important lineages in their society are. Dorian explains that families in Tevinter intermarry to raise their status and produce the best "mages" and that he wasn't so concerned with successs that he was going to pretend, especially since Dorian's family are nobility. They have no problem if a person marries and sleeps with slaves, but openly choosing not to intermarry is considered deviant and social suicide. Dorian is obviously concerned with not compromising who he is to be successful but his father was so obsessed with preserving their family line that he was willing to "change him" so that he could retain his prestige, and his father recognizes the mistake he made in putting their social status over his son's personal convictions. It's clearly about more than his gayness.

 

EDIT: changed a few minor grammar gaffes.

 

If it was about more than his gayness, then it would have been. As it stands, there was no option to state the obvious about Livia: That he doesn't care about her. There's also not the option for the father to choose another woman, one Dorian might like better, but on a lesser status. The Inquisitor doesn't have the option to state that it's simply a marriage, not a statement about anything (if it's so common). 

 

Dorian expressly states that it's not about Livia. He states that it's because he likes men. The quest and the talk in the inn wouldn't have changed even slightly if Tevinter didn't do arranged marriages. If Livia didn't exist, the quest would be the same. This quest was written specifically to talk about how being anti-gay is BAD! Dorian and his father don't even discuss the marriage during the quest. It quite literally, doesn't matter. What matters is Daddy doesn't like it that sleeps with guys, and that's BAD! 

 

Anyone who thinks it's because Daddy represents what's so bad about Tevinter is deluding themselves. We don't see Dorian talk about slaves. We don't see Dorian talk about how non-mages are treated. We don't see Dorian talk about the Magisterium's support of the Venatori. We don't see Dorian argue with him about things like the Black Divine assassinating someone during a party. It's only about him being gay. That's it. 

[AtreiyaN7]

This whole thing is not so much about the fact that Dorian is gay as it is about his father's betrayal, in my opinion. His father did what Dorian considered unforgivable in an effort to get Dorian to comply with his wishes - all because his father wanted/needed the Pavus bloodline to continue. It's made clear that improving the bloodline and creating the perfect mage is some sort of ideal/goal in Tevinter society in the game.

 

His father taught him to hate blood magic, taught him to believe that it was one of the worst things you can possibly do. And then his father turned right around and betrayed the ideals that he held dear in order to try to make Dorian compliant. His father probably wouldn't have cared if he'd had some gay lover on the side because it's clear that such things are permissible in Tevinter society (especially with slaves).

 

It became an issue for his father when Dorian refused to live a lie and enter into a marriage that would've obviously been even worse than his parents' own loveless marriage. As Dorian put it, he would've been screaming on the inside (or something to that effect). I don't think it comes across as a PSA at all, and personally, I found it touching. It also didn't end all neatly wrapped up; what happens is that it seems like you give both of them a chance at future reconciliation, not any immediate, instantaneous reconciliation.

 

So - again - it's obvious that Dorian being gay is part of this, but it's not the largest part of it or necessarily the focus, not for me at least. It was more about whether or not a relationship where trust has been severely broken can actually ever be repaired and seeing whether or not there's room for forgiveness on Dorian's end. While I think that what Dorian's father did is almost unforgivable (and boy, I've forgiven a lot *points at her Inquisitor's LI Blackwall*), it's also clear that his father is, in fact, deeply sorry and regretful about his own actions - at least, it came across that way in the dialogue that I got.

[dgcatanisiri]

I personally found this story to be very well-written and I can totally relate to it.  Situations like this (minus the whole generations of magister bloodline part) are surprisingly common for gay people.  I would be disappointed if they did a similar story with the next gay character, because then it starts to feel cliche.  But they have had five gay characters ever.  None of the other characters have had their sexuality play an important role in their story (Juhani, Steve, Samantha, and Sera).  To tell this story was important, in my opinion, because there are thousands of fans who can relate to it.  It's a story that I've not seen in a video game before and it was refreshing to see it in that medium.  At least that's my take on it. 

 

My take is that this is one of the most common narratives for gay characters. For years, this same story has been the one seen in most stories for gay characters. So seeing this here doesn't feel like it's breaking ground in the medium. It's just treading familiar ground. After a point, when this is the story that people who are supposed to be your representation in media are always getting, you start saying 'okay, fine, but aren't there MORE stories to be told than this one?'

 

Because that's been my thing. I've seen this story enough times, I'm tired of it, I want something different. I have seen the tale of the gay person, alienated by their parents because they won't be 'normal,' airing their greivances, and, as I said before, the only thing that really separates Dorian's version of it from the others is the player gets to refuse the option of pushing a reconcilation and trying to convince Dorian to forgive the unforgiveable in the name of family. Otherwise, it's all the same old tune.

[sandalisthemaker]

Why can't being gay be a part of a character's story? Dorian isn't a one-dimensional character by any means. Being gay isn't the entirety of what he is about, but neither did his writer want it to be something that people could just overlook or tune out.  I've seen in many threads, especially romance threads, where posters will say that they want BioWare to write the characters that they want to write, and here we have Dorian whom Gaider has been wanting to write for some time now. 

 

I'm positive that there were a lot of emotions that went into writing that scene, and a message was definitely there. That message may not resound with you (speaking in general) on a personal level, and/or you may not like what the message entailed, but there are people for whom that message is gladly received and welcomed. 

[Rekkampum]

If it was about more than his gayness, then it would have been. As it stands, there was no option to state the obvious about Livia: That he doesn't care about her. There's also not the option for the father to choose another woman, one Dorian might like better, but on a lesser status. The Inquisitor doesn't have the option to state that it's simply a marriage, not a statement about anything (if it's so common). 

 

Dorian expressly states that it's not about Livia. He states that it's because he likes men. The quest and the talk in the inn wouldn't have changed even slightly if Tevinter didn't do arranged marriages. If Livia didn't exist, the quest would be the same. This quest was written specifically to talk about how being anti-gay is BAD! Dorian and his father don't even discuss the marriage during the quest. It quite literally, doesn't matter. What matters is Daddy doesn't like it that sleeps with guys, and that's BAD! 

 

Anyone who thinks it's because Daddy represents what's so bad about Tevinter is deluding themselves. We don't see Dorian talk about slaves. We don't see Dorian talk about how non-mages are treated. We don't see Dorian talk about the Magisterium's support of the Venatori. We don't see Dorian argue with him about things like the Black Divine assassinating someone during a party. It's only about him being gay. That's it. 

 

Actually in conversation right after he and his father reconcile, the player literally has the opportunity to ask him and Dorian then explains all of this, although he doesn't mention who his father wanted him to marry. Being that they're both Tevinter, I think it's obvious that the marriage itself and Dorian's refusal to do so to preserve status would likely be something the two wouldn't waste time explicitly discussing in context as it's a given that it -considering what it means to their status and reputation in Tevinter - is obviously one of the central factors. 

 

And we obviously don't see the latter because his father's concern over their social status is the fulcrum of the issue and that fixation on what Dorian refusing to intermarry meant to them is clearly an example of one of many problems wrong with that society.

 

You view it as it solely about him being gay. That's only one of many issues that literally are pointed out in the latter scene after the confrontation, and with the evidence presented, your interpretation is not the only accurate one.

[daveliam]

My take is that this is one of the most common narratives for gay characters. For years, this same story has been the one seen in most stories for gay characters. So seeing this here doesn't feel like it's breaking ground in the medium. It's just treading familiar ground. After a point, when this is the story that people who are supposed to be your representation in media are always getting, you start saying 'okay, fine, but aren't there MORE stories to be told than this one?'

 

Because that's been my thing. I've seen this story enough times, I'm tired of it, I want something different. I have seen the tale of the gay person, alienated by their parents because they won't be 'normal,' airing their greivances, and, as I said before, the only thing that really separates Dorian's version of it from the others is the player gets to refuse the option of pushing a reconcilation and trying to convince Dorian to forgive the unforgiveable in the name of family. Otherwise, it's all the same old tune.

 

I'm trying to think of another video game that explores this dynamic.  I'm coming up at a loss.  Has it been explored in other media?  Of course.  But I don't remember it being explored in video games before and I tend to pick and play pretty much any game that has gay content. 

 

Regarding the idea that there is more to be told than just this story?  Of course.  I agree.  And that's why I pointed out specifically that the fact that only 1 out of 5 gay characters in Bioware games have this story is important.  If it became the go-to gay story, it would be disappointing.  But having it show up once is not a problem at all.  Juhani?  She has an implied female lover, but her sexuality doesn't play a role in her story.  Steve?  He lost his husband, but his sexuality doesn't play a role in his story.  Samantha?  She has a crush on EDI but her sexuality doesn't play a role in her story.  Sera?  Her sexuality is barely mentioned.  I'm not seeing a problem with having one gay character in the history of a company's games that speaks to a common experience for gay people. 

 

Is it a common story?  Yeah, it is.  Does that mean that it should never be told again?  Absolutely not.  Especially since it's something that gay people deal with all the time still.  The fact that people can relate to it is what makes it a compelling story.  Maybe not for you, but certainly for others.  Look, I think that stories that play with themes of religion and faith are played out, but I recognize that it's probably because I don't relate to them.  I don't think there's a problem with them being included, even if they were to heavily favor one perspective. 

[Siha]

This feels a little like dropping into a parallel world. I am not gay but the way I perceive it, gay people still have to put up with a lot of crap. Most I've met had to suffer a fair amount of intolerance. And in such a case I really wonder how this should not define you. Whenever the world around you does not accept you, that must influence you somehow. Dorian's story seems rather "common" to me. So why not show it in a game? DA also still talks about how slaves are treated unethically, even though that topic is really old and we've heard that so often and a slave is not only defined by being a slave and...
Well, maybe it's really just better whereever you live.

[Iakus]

This whole thing is not so much about the fact that Dorian is gay as it is about his father's betrayal, in my opinion. His father did what Dorian considered unforgivable in an effort to get Dorian to comply with his wishes - all because his father wanted/needed the Pavus bloodline to continue. It's made clear that improving the bloodline and creating the perfect mage is some sort of ideal/goal in Tevinter society in the game.

 

His father taught him to hate blood magic, taught him to believe that it was one of the worst things you can possibly do. And then his father turned right around and betrayed the ideals that he held dear in order to try to make Dorian compliant. His father probably wouldn't have cared if he'd had some gay lover on the side because it's clear that such things are permissible in Tevinter society (especially with slaves).

 

It became an issue for his father when Dorian refused to live a lie and enter into a marriage that would've obviously been even worse than his parents' own loveless marriage. As Dorian put it, he would've been screaming on the inside (or something to that effect). I don't think it comes across as a PSA at all, and personally, I found it touching. It also didn't end all neatly wrapped up; what happens is that it seems like you give both of them a chance at future reconciliation, not any immediate, instantaneous reconciliation.

 

So - again - it's obvious that Dorian being gay is part of this, but it's not the largest part of it or necessarily the focus, not for me at least. It was more about whether or not a relationship where trust has been severely broken can actually ever be repaired and seeing whether or not there's room for forgiveness on Dorian's end. While I think that what Dorian's father did is almost unforgivable (and boy, I've forgiven a lot *points at her Inquisitor's LI Blackwall*), it's also clear that his father is, in fact, deeply sorry and regretful about his own actions - at least, it came across that way in the dialogue that I got.

This.  All of it.

 

This wasn't about Dorian's sexuality.  It was about his refusal to play the role Tevinter society demanded of him.  In fact, it was the same role his father had to play.  Dorian's parent's couldn't stand each other, but they played the role of good breeding stock they were expected to be and had a son.  Yet Dorian refused to play a similar charade with his own life.

[Rekkampum]

You say that, but all im saying and hearing, all these threads, basically boil down to, "Because he is gay, and his father doesn't like it."

 

Now, if Dorians father was to, perhaps, say something to the effect of "This has nothing to do with who you sleep with, it has to do with duty!" then i would be more inclined to believe you. He doesn't, however.

 

As i said, Dorian being gay is not a problem for me. I support the fact that gay characters are being put in games.

 

What I dont like is that Dorian's Personal Quest is so focused on him being gay. I believe Personal Quests are meant to define the character, and i would prefer Dorians definition not to just be "Gay Man", when you and i both know that there is much much more to him.

 

 

I think it seems that way upon first glance, but when Dorian does discuss things in the scene after that meeting, it's clear that it's more about him refusing to "pretend" so that he can be successful in Tevinter.

 

Aside from the typical banal stuff on both sides, I appreciate this discussion because I think it opens up yet another layer about just how diverse the reception to this situation is. I think that in itself shows that there's more to be had in this situation; if his gayness was the only issue I'm sure many of us would be ranting and creating dozens of threads about how stereotypical it was. I like that Bioware finally took a chance instead of ignoring the issue entirely. Like what they did with Krem. I'm sure the reception and all of its points will be taken into consideration in future depictions.

[DuskWanderer]

Actually in conversation right after he and his father reconcile, the player literally has the opportunity to ask him and Dorian then explains all of this, although he doesn't mention who his father wanted him to marry. Being that they're both Tevinter, I think it's obvious that the marriage itself and Dorian's refusal to do so to preserve status would likely be something the two wouldn't waste time explicitly discussing in context as it's a given that it -considering what it means to their status and reputation in Tevinter - is obviously one of the central factors. 

 

And we obviously don't see the latter because his father's concern over their social status is the fulcrum of the issue and that fixation on what Dorian refusing to intermarry meant to them is clearly an example of one of many problems wrong with that society.

 

You view it as it solely about him being gay. That's only one of many issues that literally are pointed out in the latter scene after the confrontation, and with the evidence presented, your interpretation is not the only accurate one.

 

I've seen the scene. Dorian mentions nothing else, just vaguely alludes that "It's not the only thing"

 

If they were important, why not bring them up? You're really stretching it, because the scene plays out without that one throwaway line. 

[sandalisthemaker]

I've seen the scene. Dorian mentions nothing else, just vaguely alludes that "It's not the only thing"

 

If they were important, why not bring them up? You're really stretching it, because the scene plays out without that one throwaway line. 

 

Dorian mentions not wanting to play pretend and go along with an arranged marriage, and despising the whole concept of the Tevinter "breeding" in previous dialogue. He mentions it in the getting-to-know-him and Tevinter questions that the Inquisitor can ask.  So he already went over that.

 

Him being gay and not being accepted for it is a huge part and is what can immediately be interpreted at first glance, but the refusing to producing an heir thing is also a part of it. 

 

Also, depending on the Inquisitor's dialogue choices, Dorian can lampshade a lot of the complaints about his sexuality being 'too much a part of his character.'

 

Inquisitor: "I just... didn't expect that."

 

Dorian:  "Well, it's not as if I introduce myself that way. 'Hello, my name is Dorian and I like men'....... Maybe I should start. Some days it seems that's all anyone cares about."

[Rekkampum]

I've seen the scene. Dorian mentions nothing else, just vaguely alludes that "It's not the only thing"

 

If they were important, why not bring them up? You're really stretching it, because the scene plays out without that one throwaway line. 

 

 The PC has the opportunity to investigate with "why's it an issue?" asking if being gay is a concern in Tevinter and he literally says: "Only if you're trying to live up to an impossible standard. Every Tevinter family is intermarrying to distill the perfect mage, perfect body, perfect mind; the perfect leader. It means every perceived flaw, every abberation is deviant and shameful. It must be hidden."

 

So yeah, you missed a lot.

 

EDIT: he then goes into detail afterward about his father attempting the ritual because "I wouldn't put on a show, marry the girl, keep everything unsavory private and locked away. Selfish, I suppose, not to want to spend my entire life screaming on the inside."

 

Then you can ask if the ritual would've worked and he then mentions that it could have either worked or "made him a mindless vegetable" and his father found "that absurd risk to be preferable to scandal."

 

Like I said. Clearly about more than him being gay when one considers what him not marrying and living a lie instead of preserving the Parvus legacy out of fear of social reprisal means to his family's reputation.

 

A video shows all of this here.

[DuskWanderer]

 The PC has the opportunity to investigate with "why's it an issue?" asking if being gay is a concern in Tevinter and he literally says: "Only if you're trying to live up to an impossible standard. Every Tevinter family is intermarrying to distill the perfect mage, perfect body, perfect mind; the perfect leader. It means every perceived flaw, every abberation is deviant and shameful. It must be hidden."

 

So yeah, you missed a lot.

 

EDIT: he then goes into detail afterward about his father attempting the ritual because "I wouldn't put on a show, marry the girl, keep everything unsavory private and locked away. Selfish, I suppose, not to want to spend my entire life screaming on the inside."

 

Then you can ask if the ritual would've worked and he then mentions that it could have either worked or "made him a mindless vegetable" and his father found "that absurd risk to be preferable to scandal."

 

Like I said. Clearly about more than him being gay when one considers what him not marrying and living a lie instead of preserving the Parvus legacy out of fear of social reprisal means to his family's reputation.

 

A video shows all of this here.

 

Doesn't change a damn thing. It's all about acceptance of sexuality. You could take all of that away and the scene would still play out: It actually does. Clearly, you have to probe it to do so. By contrast, if you just go into the scene, it's about nothing but being gay. 

 

Like I said, you could take it out and the scene would be the exact same. It's about how being gay is seen as a flaw and that's BAD! 

[sandalisthemaker]

Doesn't change a damn thing. It's all about acceptance of sexuality. You could take all of that away and the scene would still play out: It actually does. Clearly, you have to probe it to do so. By contrast, if you just go into the scene, it's about nothing but being gay. 

 

Like I said, you could take it out and the scene would be the exact same. It's about how being gay is seen as a flaw and that's BAD! 

 

What's your point? 

 

You want to be able to agree that changing Dorian with blood magic and possibly lobotomizing him in the process was a good idea?

[CuriousArtemis]

Otherwise, you might as well claim that the Dark Ritual is shoving heterosexuality in your face. 

 

Well... it kinda was... lol

 

I mean I had to sit there and stare in horror as a half-naked Morrigan slinked over my lasciviously grinning GAY Warden 

 

I'm still traumatized

[Hazegurl]

Why can't being gay be a part of a character's story? Dorian isn't a one-dimensional character by any means. Being gay isn't the entirety of what he is about, but neither did his writer want it to be something that people could just overlook or tune out.  I've seen in many threads, especially romance threads, where posters will say that they want BioWare to write the characters that they want to write, and here we have Dorian whom Gaider has been wanting to write for some time now. 

 

I'm positive that there were a lot of emotions that went into writing that scene, and a message was definitely there. That message may not resound with you (speaking in general) on a personal level, and/or you may not like what the message entailed, but there are people for whom that message is gladly received and welcomed. 

I agree completely. I believe we have two extreme arguments here.

 

One: Dorian's development is only about him being gay

Two: Dorian's development had nothing at all to do with him being gay.

 

I consider both sides wrong. Dorian's quest did have to do with him being gay but also about his issues with his family that extend beyond that.

 

Why would Dorian refer to sex between two men as being unsavory while mocking his father? Shameful, deviant are also words used by Dorian referring to his issues with his father.  "....every aberration is deviant and shameful. It must be hidden."

 

To say this has nothing at all to do with Dorian being gay is simply overlooking another facet of the character and his problems with his father.

 

And judging by his reaction to the IQ coming out, he most certainly seems to take issue with gay men.  However, the problem can't be wrapped up in a neat little "accept sexuality" themed package.

 

Why? Because if Dorian had just played pretend then Halward wouldn't have much of a problem with Dorian.  I doubt he would be high fiving his son for continuing to sleep with men, slaves or otherwise. But at least his son would be a part of the breeding program. Which was most important. Important enough for him to reveal himself as a hypocrite, shatter the pedestal his son placed him on, and tried to lobotomize him for his own gains. This is the same man who taught Dorian to hate blood magic.

[Maverick827]

As far as it coming across as a PSA?  Oh well.  Bioware isn't exactly subtle most of the time in their writing.  This was a deeply personal story from a writer who drew upon his own experiences.  He's biased and, therefore, the story plays out with a bias towards a particular viewpoint.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but I don't think everyone has to like the exact way it was included in the story, and I think the "it comes off as A Very Special Episode" criticism is valid.

 

To offer an example of a less emotionally-charged topic, imagine if Cullen's lyrium addiction arc had no option to push him towards taking the drug.  You could only say very anti-drug things, and there was a scene where all of the companions gathered, sat in a circle, and told him about the evils of drugs.  Fade to black.

 

Good message?  Sure.  Poor execution?  I'd say yes, but at the very least, it's arguable.

 

As someone else said, if the scene was about arranged marriages, then the player most likely would have been given an option to side with the father.  The human Inquisitor especially, who is or was likely under a very similar pressure to marry for power and not for love, might have something unique to say about that.  From Cammen's quest in Origins, we know how Dalish courtship can be similarly position-based, though obviously not to the same degree as noble family matching.

 

It's possible to wholeheartedly agree with a message but disagree with the means with which it was delivered.

[daveliam]

Well... it kinda was... lol

 

I mean I had to sit there and stare in horror as a half-naked Morrigan slinked over my lasciviously grinning GAY Warden 

 

I'm still traumatized

 

Exactly.  I couldn't do it.  That's why I sent Alistair in to do the deed.  My gay Aeducan was like, "Uh, I'll pass, gurl......"