156 réponses à ce sujet

[The Verno]

Some people literally paid for these items Bioware, you can't seriously think this is A-OK. I think a lot of people wouldn't have preordered or ordered editions of the game that contained items that they couldn't actually use without ruining dialogue in the game. Think about that. It's a problem, create a solution.

[FreeKnight81]

Has anyone mentioned that even with the segmented N7 armor, you have to have a helmet selected if you want any of the bonuses for wearing the helmet, even if you don't want to see it? Of course I'm going to wear a helmet. I'm a gamer and those stats are important, but that doesn't mean I want to see it; I want to enjoy the visual of the face I painstakingly created for my Shep. It is confusing that BW does not seem to understand this fundamental concept of playing an RPG. This is even more confusing when you take into consideration that they did exactly the opposite in Dragon Age. In DA, you can equip your helm for the stats, then toggle it off, so you don't have to look like a hideous viking.



I can understand the comments made for the Collector armor. Figure the entire suit is one piece and you cannot feasibly separate the headpiece from the rest of it. I'll give them that: it's based on an alien suit of armor. To not have a helmet toggle option for the N7 armor is something I don't understand and is a step backward from not only ME1, but also several of BW's other games.

[Handren]

If collector is impossible by lore, what about Terminus, Inferno, and BD?

Modifié par Handren, 27 janvier 2010 - 02:44 .

[jbg927]

wow, i haven't played the game yet but this just seems awful! maybe if we get enough complaints SOMETHING will be done! since we are PAYING customers maybe they will listen. this doesn't seem like a game breaking issue but i was looking forward to running around in the terminus armor now i probably won't even use it, so much for looking like iron man lol

[Woodfox1979]

Jesse Houston wrote...

The first Personal attack we receive on this will bust the ban hammer out. Tread softly folks. And understand there was good reason why we did this.

Fine, I'll tread softly, but there isn't a "good reason" for this. There's probably a "lazy reason" and a "stupid reason" but I doubt there are any "good" ones.

Go down to the animators and tell them that their work isn't as important as the guy who made the neat mask for the exclusive conent.

So what was the good reason? I'm assuming it was done to save time...so your definition of "good" needs work.

[VoyagerI]

The Verno wrote...

Some people literally paid for these items Bioware, you can't seriously think this is A-OK. I think a lot of people wouldn't have preordered or ordered editions of the game that contained items that they couldn't actually use without ruining dialogue in the game. Think about that. It's a problem, create a solution.

Let me give you a more concrete example.  I have not yet bought the game, and when I do I will not bother with a Digital Deluxe edition knowing that I can't remove the helmet from Collector Armor.

In all fairness, I probably wasn't going to go Deluxe anyways, but now I don't even have to think about it.

[The Verno]

FreeKnight81 wrote...

Has anyone mentioned that even with the segmented N7 armor, you have to have a helmet selected if you want any of the bonuses for wearing the helmet, even if you don't want to see it? Of course I'm going to wear a helmet. I'm a gamer and those stats are important, but that doesn't mean I want to see it; I want to enjoy the visual of the face I painstakingly created for my Shep. It is confusing that BW does not seem to understand this fundamental concept of playing an RPG. This is even more confusing when you take into consideration that they did exactly the opposite in Dragon Age. In DA, you can equip your helm for the stats, then toggle it off, so you don't have to look like a hideous viking.

I mentioned it in another thread but it got drowned out by other complaints about ammo or something.  Wearing no helmet at all would at least be a step up from the current situation but I see your point, what people want is a simple DISPLAY toggle for the helmet.  The previous game had it to boot.  I challenge anyone at Bioware to load up the game, put on that armor, go have a conversation with an NPC then return here with a straight face and say that it doesn't ruin dialogue.

People are reasonably upset at being told "we did it this way and we can't change it" about what should be a one day job for a few modelers and at worst a few days needing to re-animate upper segments of the armor.  I'm willing to bet more than a few fans would be willing to do this themselves or create an alternative but you locked down modding to such a ridiculous degree that it's hard to even change hotkeys manually without the in-game interface.

Modifié par The Verno, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:03 .

[Jayross]

I thought it was cool, but then I switched back to my normal armor once I realized that the Dragon armor wasn't a fully completed part of the game, only a little bonus to throw to the players.

[Eisberg1977]

Woodfox1979 wrote...

Jesse Houston wrote...

The first Personal attack we receive on this will bust the ban hammer out. Tread softly folks. And understand there was good reason why we did this.

Fine, I'll tread softly, but there isn't a "good reason" for this. There's probably a "lazy reason" and a "stupid reason" but I doubt there are any "good" ones.

Go down to the animators and tell them that their work isn't as important as the guy who made the neat mask for the exclusive conent.

So what was the good reason? I'm assuming it was done to save time...so your definition of "good" needs work.

Here is the good reason...

Christina Norman wrote...

I can understand the desire to
run around in collector armor with the 'helmet' off but that isn't the
way they were designed in terms of appearance or in terms of art
assets. To state it simply the armor is a single piece.

We do
have a system for armor segments, and you can use that to construct a
custom look for Shepard, but armor has to be designed artistically and
otherwise for this system. To put it another way - the collector armor
wouldn't look like the collector armor if we built it using the
segmented armor system. We're able to get the awesome look because it's
a single armor piece. This is not a bug, so it can't be "patched" to
change the behavior.

[adam_grif]

Here is the good reason...

That's not a good reason. She's basically said "we did it because we designed it like that."


A good reason would be "our engine doesn't allow it and we can't fix it for technical reasons", not "our artists deliberately designed it to be extremely stupid and undesirable from the start."

Modifié par adam_grif, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:06 .

[Handren]

Eisberg1977 wrote...

Woodfox1979 wrote...

Jesse Houston wrote...

The first Personal attack we receive on this will bust the ban hammer out. Tread softly folks. And understand there was good reason why we did this.

Fine, I'll tread softly, but there isn't a "good reason" for this. There's probably a "lazy reason" and a "stupid reason" but I doubt there are any "good" ones.

Go down to the animators and tell them that their work isn't as important as the guy who made the neat mask for the exclusive conent.

So what was the good reason? I'm assuming it was done to save time...so your definition of "good" needs work.

Here is the good reason...

Christina Norman wrote...

I can understand the desire to
run around in collector armor with the 'helmet' off but that isn't the
way they were designed in terms of appearance or in terms of art
assets. To state it simply the armor is a single piece.

We do
have a system for armor segments, and you can use that to construct a
custom look for Shepard, but armor has to be designed artistically and
otherwise for this system. To put it another way - the collector armor
wouldn't look like the collector armor if we built it using the
segmented armor system. We're able to get the awesome look because it's
a single armor piece. This is not a bug, so it can't be "patched" to
change the behavior.

That still dosen`t explain about the other 3 DLC/bonus armors.


I`m using the terminus armor on stuff that dosen`t matter for charachter, such as N7 Missions. So I can still get SOME use out of it at least.

Modifié par Handren, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:06 .

[The Verno]

Jayross wrote...

I thought it was cool, but then I switched back to my normal armor once I realized that the Dragon armor wasn't a fully completed part of the game, only a little bonus to throw to the players.

If I could actually change armor myself whenever I wanted outside of set areas then I would be fine with it.  I could wear it in combat and turn it off for dialogue.  Unfortunately both are frequently intermingled in this game.  Not being able to see your characters face when he's talking seems to be a pretty basic "well geez, we should fix that" thing for me.  I really don't understand how they came back with the responses they did.  You'd think they would want to fix this considering most of us paid MORE for the game.  The conversation at Bioware should be going "how can we fix this? " and not "we're not even going to try".  There is no way that made it through QA, it's an obvious oversight because the game was probably understandably rushed.  Fine mistakes happen but at least try to fix it.

Modifié par The Verno, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:12 .

[kakotan]

Jesse Houston wrote...

The first Personal attack we receive on this will bust the ban hammer out. Tread softly folks. And understand there was good reason why we did this.

I dont mind but i know some do, what was your reasons for this that way i can let my friends know who dont use the forums at all ?


Nvm i didnt see the other topics i understand why now :s and that makes sence

Modifié par kakotan, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:12 .

[Permutation]

I really like the Collector armor. Yeah, it sucks you can't remove the helmet, but there will be better (and customizable) armors throughout the game.

[Rody2k9]

I am very gutted, I can't remove the helmet from my Collector's and Terminus armor...I love the armors..but not seeing my Shep's facial reactions is outrageous, one of the key dialog componets are the facial expressions.

WIth the mask on...that whole dialog power just goes to waste.

WE NEED A PATCH

[The Verno]

Permutation wrote...

I really like the Collector armor. Yeah, it sucks you can't remove the helmet, but there will be better (and customizable) armors throughout the game.

I don't know why you assume this would be the case when we have 4 broken armor sets and only 1 working one already.  I'm using the term working loosely because turning off the helmet isn't just a display thing, you lose the stat bonuses too.  All people are asking for is a helmet display toggle.  That's it, they even did it for ME1.

Modifié par The Verno, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:15 .

[Eisberg1977]

adam_grif wrote...

Here is the good reason...

That's not a good reason. She's basically said "we did it because we designed it like that."


A good reason would be "our engine doesn't allow it and we can't fix it for technical reasons", not "our artists deliberately designed it to be extremely stupid and undesirable from the start."

Umm, she basically did say it was for technical reasons.  She said that the armor would not even look like that if it had the segmented helmet to it.  Looks like to me that the artists had a choice, they could either make some other kind of armor knowing the limitations of the system, or they could go ahead and make the armor they really wanted to make knowing that the helmet and armor peice would all be one piece.

Undesirable for you and some others, to me and some others we think it looks fantastic and I am not bothered by it at all.

[VoyagerI]

The Devs do have a reason for designing the armors as a single piece.

For an armor to work within the modular system, it has to be designed within certain restrictions to ensure that each piece is compatible with every other piece of armor it might be required to interact with. By designing the DLC armors as complete units rather than modular components, the Devs were able to make them look however they wanted without having to worry about how they would fit together with other gear.

There's also an artistic reason. All of the modular gear has to work with the same general aesthetic. You should be able to wear any piece of gear with any other piece of gear without any of them looking out of place. By designing the DLC armors to work outside the normal system, they are able to give them their own unique visual designs without having to worry about what happens when someone wants to wear a Terminus Vest with N7 Gauntlets.



The problem here is that they've forgotten to prioritize the importance of their digital acting. I support the decisions to make the DLC armors non-modular for the above reasons, but the lack of helmet toggle is a very big deal for people who enjoy the RPG aspects of the game, and I don't think they're really incompatible.

[newcomplex]

VoyagerI wrote...

The Devs do have a reason for designing the armors as a single piece.
For an armor to work within the modular system, it has to be designed within certain restrictions to ensure that each piece is compatible with every other piece of armor it might be required to interact with. By designing the DLC armors as complete units rather than modular components, the Devs were able to make them look however they wanted without having to worry about how they would fit together with other gear.
There's also an artistic reason. All of the modular gear has to work with the same general aesthetic. You should be able to wear any piece of gear with any other piece of gear without any of them looking out of place. By designing the DLC armors to work outside the normal system, they are able to give them their own unique visual designs without having to worry about what happens when someone wants to wear a Terminus Vest with N7 Gauntlets.

The problem here is that they've forgotten to prioritize the importance of their digital acting. I support the decisions to make the DLC armors non-modular for the above reasons, but the lack of helmet toggle is a very big deal for people who enjoy the RPG aspects of the game, and I don't think they're really incompatible.

Thats all fine and dany if they just added a toggle to the helm.    You know what, even if they're are clipping issues, just do it.

Or better yet, give us mod tools.   

[adam_grif]

Eisberg1977 wrote...

adam_grif wrote...

Here is the good reason...

That's not a good reason. She's basically said "we did it because we designed it like that."


A good reason would be "our engine doesn't allow it and we can't fix it for technical reasons", not "our artists deliberately designed it to be extremely stupid and undesirable from the start."

Umm, she basically did say it was for technical reasons.  She said that the armor would not even look like that if it had the segmented helmet to it.  Looks like to me that the artists had a choice, they could either make some other kind of armor knowing the limitations of the system, or they could go ahead and make the armor they really wanted to make knowing that the helmet and armor peice would all be one piece.

Or they could have made it 2 pieces, Helmet + Armor. Or they could have given you two versions of each armor, one with helmet, one without helmet. That they didn't represents a failing in design.

Undesirable for you and some others, to me and some others we think it looks fantastic and I am not bothered by it at all.

Except that if there was an option to remove the helmet, both groups would be satisfied, but if you can't, then only your group is.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Oh please someone tell me I didn't see someone use the stupid "Can I haz helmet stats without the helmet plz" comment?



Taking a step back by not having that? Actually I would consider it progress, you want the funky helm with the funky stats then you got to wear the funky helm with the funky stats or have no helm and no stats.



Anyone that doesn't understand Christina's comment about the Collector armor also seriously needs to just quit right now because if you can't grasp that it is a one piece outfit then you obviously aren't good at comprehending things.



Also regarding the Terminus armor, last I recalled that is a free piece of armor so why anyone is seriously crying over that not being 'customisable' is beyond me but the other thing is, where have some of you been the last week or so. They said before the game was out that the pre-order armors weren't customisable.



I dunno the devs give you free stuff and you complain about it *shakes head in disbelief* some of you seriously need to grow up

[Handren]

Or they could have made it 2 pieces, Helmet + Armor. Or they could have given you two versions of each armor, one with helmet, one without helmet.

This would probably be the easier solution to implement right now. Absolutely NOTHING would prevent them from doing this.

Modifié par Handren, 27 janvier 2010 - 03:20 .

[finc.loki]

Christina Norman wrote...

I can understand the desire to run around in collector armor with the 'helmet' off but that isn't the way they were designed in terms of appearance or in terms of art assets. To state it simply the armor is a single piece.

We do have a system for armor segments, and you can use that to construct a custom look for Shepard, but armor has to be designed artistically and otherwise for this system. To put it another way - the collector armor wouldn't look like the collector armor if we built it using the segmented armor system. We're able to get the awesome look because it's a single armor piece. This is not a bug, so it can't be "patched" to change the behavior.

This is not what we are asking for.
We are not complaining about not being able to customize the armor the way the N7 armor can.

We simply want a helmet toggle.

In all honestly I won't believe for a second that such a talented group of developers as Bioware is, can't make a custom 2 piece armor.

If I am not mistaken it is nothing more than splitting the one piece into two meshes for the armor.
To top it all of, we have evidence of this since you already did it for ME1.
All armors were a body suit and a helmet. I know you guys don't have the same inventory anylonger.
Still you have the screen where you select squad points, just put a toggle button right there.

There is no way I am ever going to believe that a talented designer can't make a two piece armor out of for example the collector armor, and do it with exactly the same look and no clipping issue.

This is clearly an oversight or simply, "keep it simple".

Some people have reported that shepard takes a drink with the helmet on, seriously, that must look quite pathetic.

Also the whole thing about having design teams that only work for the eye's and facial expressions and then, if one want to use the cool armors have it all removed can in no otherway be seen as nothing else but a flaw.

You say it can't be patched cause it is not a bug? Then how was the game made?
So there is no designer at Bioware and programmer that can't change the mesh and code for a toggle?

I have no doubts that if a toolkit was released some diligent community modder would solve this issue in short time.

Bioware has created an issue, by letting the customer either choose to see and use their character or simple see an armor throughout the game (if they want to use them).

There is really no excuse anyone can make, when Shepard takes a drink with a helmet on, that must be a little embarrasing.
We have all seen which seen that is in your promo video's.
I think it is after life bar..

I think all of us know you could solve the "problem" but you choose not to, for either one or two reasons.
Bioware won't admit it was a mistake so you stick to your guns that it was on purpose.
Or you don't want to allocate some manpower and money to solve the problem.

This leave a sour taste in us paying customers mouth's since some of us payed for this content.

How can we not expect a "helmet toggle" when the SAME thing existed in the first Mass Effect game, we are not even talking about another game here.

So please Bioware, pretty please make an update that will solve this with a "patch".

[killingsheep24]

Amusing fault on biowares part, grats on an epic game in which you would most definatly want to see your characters facial reactions to events being pwned by a non toggle feature for some sets.



Can't believe they thought that was a good idea.