218 réponses à ce sujet

[Drasca]

Appreciate your responses. Since I'm pretty new (only at 16/17/17 atm) it helps a lot. 

 

I do enjoy archer, assassin and elementalist a lot. I can do perilous with them no problem. I do have a problem with warriors tho, especially templar and lego. I see a lot of skilled players go without shield block, and I have no idea how they dont die almost instantly. I seem to have a big problem building guard without it. 

Is this a gear issue or skill issue? Always looking to improve my game.

 

They're not that skilled, Legos can potentially be invincible all the time, and Templar takes time to both learn and gear up (though best imo with shield wall on the bar). Try playing Katari for constitution. It is the most easily balanced between attack, defense and accessibility right now among all the Warriors. You can learn the rest at your own pace.

[Westrum]

Hey Drasca, me again! Back with some more stupid questions.

 

I've been playing both Virtu and Keeper lately in perilous, and I've had great sucess with the Virtu, but can't seem to do the same with keeper. Virtu, I can just spam barrier all day, and no one dies. With keeper, people die a lot, since the CD on Barrier is quite long. 

Looked at your starter keeper build, and noticed you didnt have Strenght of Spirits, is there a reason for that? Cant really see why having 50% better barrier is "bad". 

[BraveLToaster]

I find perma-Fortress Lego pretty tough to pull off if you're not soloing since the duration nerf.

[nibyl]

The Hunter cannot say the same, and has no place in my teams except as the character to be carried.

Hahaha... Oh, you were serious.

 

Hunter sucks if you compare him to archer, or even worse, try to play him like archer. I like to think of him more like an assassin with a bow. Stealthily spike trappin' groups of archers and taking out brutes and knights with leaping shot.

[Drasca]

Hey Drasca, me again! Back with some more stupid questions.

 

I've been playing both Virtu and Keeper lately in perilous, and I've had great sucess with the Virtu, but can't seem to do the same with keeper. Virtu, I can just spam barrier all day, and no one dies. With keeper, people die a lot, since the CD on Barrier is quite long. 

Looked at your starter keeper build, and noticed you didnt have Strenght of Spirits, is there a reason for that? Cant really see why having 50% better barrier is "bad". 

 

It isn't bad, but it isn't always necessary either. The points were used elsewhere. Feel free to add it to your build. With elegant defense and no knight protector, SoS is sometimes less useful with shorter barrier lengths, but more often 'full' refreshed barriers depending on the timing of the barrier cast and the context of the battle.

 

Keeper is inherently more difficult to use than Virtu in FC because the Virtu is designed to cast and move on the go, while the Keeper had different design intentions. Barrier is meant to be more limited and designed for smaller rooms rather than the large open levels FC is set in.

 

I don't use Starter Keeper myself anymore, it is only a crutch for brand new players with multiple hard survival/escape options built in. Destruction field is my favorite flavor at the moment.

 

I find perma-Fortress Lego pretty tough to pull off if you're not soloing since the duration nerf.

 

Yeah, builds change over time. See how I dropped counterstrike in the castle brawler build, and picked up TTD & Shield Bash with the SB buff.

 

Hahaha... Oh, you were serious.

 

Hunter sucks if you compare him to archer, or even worse, try to play him like archer. I like to think of him more like an assassin with a bow. Stealthily spike trappin' groups of archers and taking out brutes and knights with leaping shot.

 

Time efficiency. By the time you stealth spike, those brutes and knights have been long shotted or leaping shotted 10x over. Hunter cannot match Archer's insane cooldowns from OK and the combo openings that affords him.

 

If you don't care about time efficiency, more power to you, but I do, and these builds are contingent about being my favorites rather than absolute best for everyone.

[Drasca]

Added intermediary builds to archer.

Updated L10 Keeper

Added equipment recommendation to Templar

Duelist build descriptions expanded

Minor other updates.

[Kalas Magnus]

lotta people love your isabella audacity build.

run into 3 now.

well done.

[FRZN]

Hahaha... Oh, you were serious.

Hunter sucks if you compare him to archer, or even worse, try to play him like archer. I like to think of him more like an assassin with a bow. Stealthily spike trappin' groups of archers and taking out brutes and knights with leaping shot.

I've been using stealth->throwing knives->leaping shot->stealth (recharged by leaping shot)->rolling draw (w/ griffon bow)->spike trap->repeat on my hunter lately. It's decent and fun, but it still feels like in its best case scenario it can maybe keep pace with my less specialized archer. I used to think the hunter was fine, but then I made an archer with knockout bomb, mercy killing, and flanking fire: same benefits of stealth but with lower cooldowns and deadly at any range.

Maybe he would have his place to shine if on the razor's edge scaled with range to something like 50% at 2m, 30% at <5m, and 15% at <10m.

[Drasca]

Restored Knockout bomb / Mercy Killing based build on Archer: Nicknamed Build: Sleeping Death

 

Maybe he would have his place to shine if on the razor's edge scaled with range to something like 50% at 2m, 30% at <5m, and 15% at <10m.

 

Yeah he's underwhelming as is. He just doesn't do enough to be worth playing. I'm still willing to try the new spike trap and throwing blades of course.

[FRZN]

I'm still willing to try the new spike trap and throwing blades of course.

Spike trap is pretty good now. Places fast, arms instantly, small aoe, knockdown, good damage, and you can have more than one down at once. Of course, the archer can get it too and use it more often thanks to OK. I've been using it instead of long shot since long shot is only doing ~250% damage for me.

Throwing blades is basically a second leaping shot without the backward movement or the rolling draw knockdown. It's okay, but archers can just use leaping shot twice.

- With the upgrade, Precision Targeting, you can hurl all 4 blades at a single target (720% total weapon damage) with a 25% damage bonus on top of that.

Contrary to the description, all precision targeting does is make you throw 5 knives instead of 4.

[FRZN]

Not sure what you mean by "using leaping shot twice."

I was referring to the lower cooldowns caused by opportunity knocks.

[Drasca]

Not sure what you mean by "using leaping shot twice.

 

With high crit chance, Opportunity Knocks (removing cooldown),  Looked like it Hurt (replacing stamina) and Leaping shot's 12 hits each individually performing criticals, Archers can consecutively perform leaping shots on large targets, particularly if their back is against a wall. There is no limit to the number of LpS's performed. Additionally with Pincushion, every hit adds 5% damage until the buff runs out, quickly ramping up single target dps, and annihilating enemy bosses, especially when tied with mark of death. A single archer can perform 4x leaping shots + mark of death against the dragon with the right conditions, and take out half his health ~125k / 250k

 

Regular perilous bosses don't require MoD to defeat.

 

Hunter cannot hope to match this sort of short range damage.

 

At long range, Archer's Lance still dominates under my build.

 

Hunter's trash vs Archer. You just don't know how big the gap really is.

[MDK1281]

I see your OP doesn't contain anything yet on the Virtuoso since it's still WIP, but I'd like to point out a few things that I was able to conclude after some extensive testing and studying.

 

First of all, I see so many people spend an incredible amount of points in the Crowd-Pleasers tree, all the way down to the left (at least up to Winter Music) and right (Sing Along+upgrade) while leaving the other tree mostly untouched. In my opinion this is the worst choice, as managing the barrier on the party 24/7 will render the armor and all other defensive talents obsolete since barrier prevents losing health altogether. Why cast A Little Knight Music (armor) when Hometown Anthem (barrier) absorbs all of the damage? Might as well invest in those talents that can help improve the barrier's strength and prolong its duration so I will never have a reason to increase my party's armor, let alone activate the life stealing song (Sing Along). I do exactly that and have always been able to keep my party alive as the sole barrier generator, even on perilous in FC. Battle of the Bands is the only mandatory song beyond the Feel the Crowd talent.

 

This allows me to focus heavily on the other tree that actually does have useful support talents, i.e. Tricks of the Trade, Fan Favourite, upgraded Power Chord to dispel friendlies' debuffs and the enemies' buffs (goodbye Venatori Commander's barrier?) and lastly Mark of the Riff (lovely extra damage!). I consider these choices - overall - to add more support to the party than the ones adding neglectable advantage in the Crowd-Pleasers tree.

 

With this build I've been able to keep my party, even the ones much less experienced, alive without a sweat: http://da-skills.net...1,00120,1,010,1

 

The success of keeping barriers constantly up depends on your ability to keep the mana regen high at all times by either being close to a friendly (Feel the Crowd) or an enemy (Combat Clarity) while auto attacking enemies (Opening Set).

 

I'd love to hear any feedback on this.

 

Edit: I wonder if the link shows the entire build? It doesn't when I click on it ._.

[FRZN]

Even better.  That amounts to 900% weapon damage (with the enhanced ring equipped).
 
If you're facing a single target, all of the blades will hit the same target.  That's a fact.

As I said, it's basically a second leaping shot.

[Drasca]

Edit: I wonder if the link shows the entire build? It doesn't when I click on it ._.

 

Link does not show full build for me. Try again and fix it.

 

So far all I've been doing is spamming power chord on Virtuoso with lots of + damage and +mana passives. Not the most elegant approach, but with my gear and stats, I end up doing stupidly long kill streaks. I don't even bother auto-attacking most of the time, because that slows my movement speed down, and thus my dps as PC requires close proximity for maximum damage.

 

That build works best alongside other high burst damage characters of course.

 

Solo virtuoso with that particular build is kind of silly too... Can be done but really really silly.

 

 

I think you're misunderstanding me.  I'm not arguing that the Hunter is better than the Archer (I prefer the Archer myself).

 

There's literally no reason for me to take a Hunter over an Archer, when Archer's guaranteed to be unlocked, and they're almost identically geared. He remains a carried class because of that.

 

I don't think you've been in my games since the dragonslayer DLC. If I'm on Avvar or Duelist, everything just explodes.

 

There's also nothing wrong with being carried, so long as they can carry in return later on. Hunter does not do that. It is not time efficient, and since my time is precious, I don't want him in my teams. People are free to play hunter in their own games, not in mine (unless we already have a strong team and they admit to being carried).

[Drasca]

I would just encourage you to explore the Hunter more.  I don't want to beat a dead horse, but throwing blades with the upgrade and enhanced ring is worth a second look.

 

It is on my list, but I won't be needing the enhanced ring since I have dual superb critical damage rings. Will test though.

[hanoobken]

Note how there's no hunter build listed here. It is not listed as one of my favorites, because it is not. The recent buffs have helped him quite a bit, but OK and AL are still overwhelmingly more powerful and time efficient. Anything signifigant the Hunter can do, the Archer can do better, outside of very trivial things like poison challenge achievements.

 

I'd rather pull a level 1 archer to 12 in one perilous game, and then play with an effective level 12 Archer, than take a level 16+ Hunter for the next few games.

 

Archer's Mark of Death alone signifigantly contributes toward time-saving hunting Dragons. Between Leaping shot, OK and cover behind an archer, and Mark of Death, an Archer can potentially drop the Dragon in the first landing. The Hunter cannot say the same, and has no place in my teams except as the character to be carried.

 

The same is true for Alchemist. Luka's skill trees are ill conceived and hap-hazardly designed. They work fine for threatening and below, but fail to scale up with Perilous difficulty in part due to how the game mechanics operate (her elemental mine effects of chill & burning do not stack).

 

She is not welcome in my party without much stronger kits carrying her.

I mean no disrespect in any way, just letting you know what put me off last time we played (aside from legitimate connectivity issues).  You see, when I get an invite to play from you or anyone else, that to me means I get to play what I want.  Isn't that the point of the game?  I wanted to unlock my hunter banner and you told me to bring a level 1 keeper instead because she's useful.  That, or a level 1 Katari.  I don't like playing keeper.  She's my least played class.  And for Katari, I already have the banner.

 

You're a number cruncher, I get that, but screw the math and let your friends play for fun.  You can pretty much carry an entire team of level 1s on your own so it really shouldn't matter what your friend brings to the fight.  It'll take longer, sure...  but in the end everyone had fun.  It's your lobby and I guess it's your right to dictate what people joining your lobby should play.  But where's the fun in that? 

[Angelus_de_Mortiel]

You're a number cruncher, I get that, but screw the math and let your friends play for fun.  You can pretty much carry an entire team of level 1s on your own so it really shouldn't matter what your friend brings to the fight.  It'll take longer, sure...  but in the end everyone had fun.  It's your lobby and I guess it's your right to dictate what people joining your lobby should play.  But where's the fun in that? 

Not really agreeing or disagreeing here... More of just adding my thoughts on this subject:

This has been an ongoing discussion between Drasca and I for many months. When I played ME3MP, I didn't just play for the optimal teams. The group I was with enjoyed fun little "theme" games, like all Geth kits versus the Geth or "Shotties 'n Snipers". It wasn't about playing what was best (because using the Turian Ghost and a Cerberus Harrier that much would get boring really fast), but rather having fun with it.

I am of the firm belief that everyone should play as they wish and not dictate the way others play. Drasca and I have found ourselves frequently at odds on this topic, as well as many others, but I still strongly believe he should continue to play his way. The pendulum swings both ways: Just as you or I are both welcome to play whatever kits we want, built how we want, Drasca is also free to play with whatever team he wants. 

 

 

To Drasca:
Just a thought: As you add more and more builds, you might want to condense the OP with some spoiler tags around each build to make it easier to navigate. It's getting a bit long up there. Again, just a suggestion.

[Drasca]

To Drasca:
Just a thought: As you add more and more builds, you might want to condense the OP with some spoiler tags around each build to make it easier to navigate. It's getting a bit long up there. Again, just a suggestion.

 

Done. That's helpful thanks.

 

 

When I played ME3MP, I didn't just play for the optimal teams.

 

ME3 is a different story, as everyone is a shooter, with biotics and/or tech combos. You can play at odds with each other too with bad team compositions. All geth works because it is all tech, but remember Biotics that don't like Chain Overload on everything? Or those setting up level 6 tech explosions? Some playstyles work against each other, and are definitely not fun to do on the same squad.

 

It is be different if EVERYONE were on the same page and styling, but individuals styling outside and against the team objective is not welcome in my team.

 

I've done all reaver, all katari, all xyz, and other themed games, but the "I do what I want" (in Drasca's game/lobby) with no regard toward anyone else attitude is not welcome. Go do 'what you want' somewhere else.

 

 

I mean no disrespect in any way, just letting you know what put me off last time we played (aside from legitimate connectivity issues).  You see, when I get an invite to play from you or anyone else, that to me means I get to play what I want.  Isn't that the point of the game?  I wanted to unlock my hunter banner and you told me to bring a level 1 keeper instead because she's useful.  That, or a level 1 Katari.  I don't like playing keeper.  She's my least played class.  And for Katari, I already have the banner.

 

You're a number cruncher, I get that, but screw the math and let your friends play for fun.  You can pretty much carry an entire team of level 1s on your own so it really shouldn't matter what your friend brings to the fight. 

 

What I didn't want to tell you at that time, but now as that you cannot (or at least I hope you cannot, because I certainly can't remember) the names of the players also in that lobby, were weaker players at their kits due to skill/gear/level etc. I often carry friends because they're friends, and I want to play with them... but it would've been a bad time with that particular team composition.

 

Even I admit there are limits to what I can do at times. I can't quite carry everyone with level 1 on everything, and wiping is not fun for me . . . particularly with weaker teams. I knew where that team was headed, and I didn't want to go there. It would not have been fun, and it would've been a waste of time. Wiping on a level one characters with more utility would not have been a waste of time. Hunter was not the only kit you had, or could enjoy. You can present alternative options too, for example if you're particularly strong on Templar, or another. However, I don't have fun if the team is not going to do well for xyz reasons, and I try to shore up the weaknesses.

 

Hunter in that particular composition would've been one of them. Hunter is a solo class, and doesn't directly contribute persistent CC, or as much dps, as an archer or other class would. I've personally played it enough to see I can do well enough, but I can do so much better elsewhere.

 

In the case of Katari and Keeper, they're go to classes that are reccommendable at level one because they contribute consistent DPS, CC (AoE knockdown) (Static Cage Paralyze), or Barrier from level one or within seven levels (zone one or two of perilous). Since you said you had all level one's, and there was no Dragonslayer DLC at the time (I think), that's what I recommended you do.

 

I've got to investigate the rumour that spike trap can be laid down multiple times simultaneously. Last time I tried, this was not the case. Multiple spike traps is a big deal. Also see the other buffs myself.

 

Finally as to Katari wins, I already have the Katari Banner too, but he's too much fun (and effective), I can't stop playing him.