I've got to investigate the rumour that spike trap can be laid down multiple times simultaneously. Last time I tried, this was not the case. Multiple spike traps is a big deal.
They're my new favorite toy! They're limited by duration, I think it's 30s, but you can get a nice mine field going pretty easily.
(I'm placing them kind of far back because just before I started recording we got a wave of mostly stalkers. Also because I'm pug-a-rific)
Even I admit there are limits to what I can do at times. I can't quite carry everyone with level 1 on everything, and wiping is not fun for me . . . particularly with weaker teams. I knew where that team was headed, and I didn't want to go there. It would not have been fun, and it would've been a waste of time. Wiping on a level one characters with more utility would not have been a waste of time. Hunter was not the only kit you had, or could enjoy. You can present alternative options too, for example if you're particularly strong on Templar, or another. However, I don't have fun if the team is not going to do well for xyz reasons, and I try to shore up the weaknesses.
Hunter in that particular composition would've been one of them. Hunter is a solo class, and doesn't directly contribute persistent CC, or as much dps, as an archer or other class would. I've personally played it enough to see I can do well enough, but I can do so much better elsewhere.
In the case of Katari and Keeper, they're go to classes that are reccommendable at level one because they contribute consistent DPS, CC (AoE knockdown) (Static Cage Paralyze), or Barrier from level one or within seven levels (zone one or two of perilous). Since you said you had all level one's, and there was no Dragonslayer DLC at the time (I think), that's what I recommended you do.
I've got to investigate the rumour that spike trap can be laid down multiple times simultaneously. Last time I tried, this was not the case. Multiple spike traps is a big deal. Also see the other buffs myself.
Finally as to Katari wins, I already have the Katari Banner too, but he's too much fun (and effective), I can't stop playing him.
Katari is definitely great and I love playing him probably just as much as anyone who knows what he is capable of. I just didn't want to play him on that day. Keeper on the other hand, while I do admit her usefulness in a party, she just is and probably will remain the most boring class to play with for me. I think it's a combination of her ugly ass haircut and a massive inferiority/persecution complex that make her all the more annoying, both to look at and to listen to.
Yup, it was the day the new characters were released without the dragon maps and we all had downgraded stats, but that wasn't the only time you insisted I play keeper. I don't remember the names of the other two we were with, but I do remember two ladies (both using their mics), one playing a Katari, the other playing Zither and you on Avvar.
Lady Zither was doing a good enough job that having me play as keeper made little to no difference in the end. She already got us to zone three at level 1 just spamming barrier in the first round. She no longer was level 1 in the round where you had me play keeper. We still lost. My hunter was level 8, and while he's nowhere near the other great classes, I knew how to play him well enough to keep baddies away from our mobile barrier generator while she babysat the rest of us. In hindsight, we could have used a little more damage in zone 5 and less barrier because you kept charging down the stairs while you told the rest of us to use cover. We chose to protect the Katari who was doing her best to protect us instead of following the guy charging off on his own. Lady Katari, while being chased around by RTC and a ton of mobs around the walls/pillars in elven ruins eventually got overwhelmed while you got downed at the bottom of the stairs. I still don't know what you were doing there. Lady Zither and I died trying to get to you after our bodyguard got downed for the last time. We really could've used your Lady's Wrath in those tight corners, but whatever.
But like you said and what Mortiel so eloquently stated above, it's your lobby and we'll do what we find enjoyable somewhere else. 
Yup, it was the day the new characters were released without the dragon maps and we all had downgraded stats, but that wasn't the only time you insisted I play keeper. I don't remember the names of the other two we were with, but I do remember two ladies (both using their mics), one playing a Katari, the other playing Zither and you on Avvar.
Oh Andraste. I'd forgotten about the downgraded stats. You've got a better memory than me of those details, but that's even more incentive to play it safe. As for me playing Avvar insanely on day one, I had some learning curve to do adjusting to my own gear, builds, and different stats. Stupid things were going to happen, and I knew it.
Hunter would've been a bad idea there. Virtuoso level 1 and Keeper combined is a completely different story than a level one virtuoso alone, especially a level 8 Hunter.
LW doesn't really work well on Elven Ruins Z5. That map is pretty open, and both versions require a certain degree of mobility, especially the Temple Zone 5 with the shrine on top. LW really shines during closed spaces and tightly packed mobs, while mobs are more likely to be spread out and coming from multiple directions on Elven Ruins.
Extremely good Katari don't die before others do. Lady Katari was not one of those, nor was Lady Zither (she didn't have time to learn it before opening Day). Lowered stats for everyone increased the difficulty too. Hunter's definitely a weaker class and it was no time to be playing weaker classes on Perilous. Our wipe was proof of that.
So no, I don't like going in knowing the team will fail with the expectation of wanting to win.
Oh Andraste. I'd forgotten about the downgraded stats. You've got a better memory than me of those details, but that's even more incentive to play it safe. As for me playing Avvar insanely on day one, I had some learning curve to do adjusting to my own gear, builds, and different stats. Stupid things were going to happen, and I knew it.
Hunter would've been a bad idea there. Virtuoso level 1 and Keeper combined is a completely different story than a level one virtuoso alone, especially a level 8 Hunter.
LW doesn't really work well on Elven Ruins Z5. That map is pretty open, and both versions require a certain degree of mobility, especially the Temple Zone 5 with the shrine on top. LW really shines during closed spaces and tightly packed mobs, while mobs are more likely to be spread out and coming from multiple directions on Elven Ruins.
Extremely good Katari don't die before others do. Lady Katari was not one of those, nor was Lady Zither (she didn't have time to learn it before opening Day). Lowered stats for everyone increased the difficulty too. Hunter's definitely a weaker class and it was no time to be playing weaker classes on Perilous. Our wipe was proof of that.
So no, I don't like going in knowing the team will fail with the expectation of wanting to win.
Nope. Our wipe was because you left Lady Katari with mobs and the RTC that you knew she couldn't handle on her own while you ran off away from the protection of Lady Zither (who wasn't level 1 like you keep insisting) and me. LW was exactly the thing we needed in the tight corner where you left us. Instead you were out in the open where it was least effective. I'm saying the hunter, in the situation where you left us, would have proved more useful than that extra barrier my keeper had with little to no damage to help Lady Katari out. She couldn't take mobs out fast enough with RTC chasing her around at the same time. They kept pouring in while you played Rambo in some far away land. Had you actually helped Lady Katari we could have easily won and that's why I found it utterly strange that you dictated team play and didn't perform as a team player at all when it really counted. Lady Zither was doing fine until our bodyguard dropped, then we had to get out of cover to try and rescue you at the bottom of the stairs. And that's how we wiped.
I do have good memory about things I find particularly fun or irritating.
Nope. Our wipe was because you left Lady Katari with mobs and the RTC
There was no way to predict it would be Red Templars or the specific Elven Ruins map.
LW was exactly the thing we needed in the tight corner where you left us. Instead you were out in the open where it was least effective.
The Elven Ruins map one requires movement when the team doesn't have CC. You're supposed to follow me. You don't try to hold a chokepoint without CC, especially against red Templars, and we didn't have CC in the team composition.
I'm saying the hunter, in the situation where you left us, would have proved more useful than that extra barrier my keeper had with little to no damage to help Lady Katari out. She couldn't take mobs out fast enough with RTC chasing her around at the same time.
Lady Zither was doing fine until our bodyguard dropped, then we had to get out of cover to try and rescue you at the bottom of the stairs. And that's how we wiped.
Again, you're not supposed to take out the RTC & goons directly (when you don't have massive burst dps or persistent CC). You're supposed to be mobile and kite them, taking them out methodically as your cooldowns pop up. Between Zither and Keeper, you can survive to do this.
Following me is part of that plan, because the Temple Ruins map is ultimately circular. If you fight in giant circle, enemy aggro ends up following from one direction, instead of having to deal with two, and ultimately wiping because you're overwhelmed from two directions (especially Red Templar ranged attacks).
Your memory is good, but your strategic assessment for the team composition is bad. No CC means + highly mobile party = move around, not fruitlessly defending one spot. Hunter would've been worse here, especially with worse stats.
I played bad, and I should've talked to you more about what to do, but my strategy for Elven Ruins was sound. Its worked plenty on multiple teams, levels, and players because it manipulates how the enemy behaves and controls their flow of damage to the party, while maximizing our own during engagement periods. A level 8 Hunter would've died multiple times before zone 5, and faded way before a Keeper would. Hunter is also insufficient DPS to cover both directions where enemies would come from, so being mobile would've still been the correct strategy, rather the incorrect one of staying in one place.
I can say that Hunter isn't maybe best but it's viable enough for normal maps. Ferelden castle with huge spawn, different spawn composition and map made around LoSing isn't very good for hunter or any other "stealth" rogue.
Hunter was the wrong choice for team composition & map at that time. In a different team composition, it could've been the right choice, or a reasonable one at least. In general, I would still prefer an archer most of the time given two bow kit options of equal level and gear.
Stealth rogues have it bad right now. There is no stealth to be had in FC, and that's where the coolest toys are.
Most pugs these days learned those few basic camping spots on map and there all this hunter skills does not matter. Maybe explosive shot.
Wouldn't the upgraded Spike damage and multiple spike traps be useful here? ES for sure, but at the same time Archer would do this better given OK. That's how badly imbalanced the power shift is away from Hunter. Archer even does the Hunter's featured "traps" better than Hunter does, because he can do way more of them. Need to test if Archer can do multiple traps of course... but if so... even more reason not to use Hunter as-is.
On normal maps where spawn looks different and there are around 10+ mobs at spawn hunter is great. He can assassinate some bigger targets,
Hunter has no speed skills, and cannot shoot around corners. He'd never catch up to archer's lance or allies with speed buffs charging past him attacking while moving. I think he'd have to take hook and tackle in order to possibly be on par just getting to enemies.
Playing batman is fun (hook and tackle, leaping shot, throwing knives, stealth-- maybe replaced with explosive shot) , but not nearly as time efficient as others -- thus he's a carried class because I know I could be clearing soooo much faster elsewhere . . or providing better CC, or better support
There was no way to predict it would be Red Templars or the specific Elven Ruins map.
The Elven Ruins map one requires movement when the team doesn't have CC. You're supposed to follow me. You don't try to hold a chokepoint without CC, especially against red Templars, and we didn't have CC in the team composition.
Again, you're not supposed to take out the RTC & goons directly. You're supposed to be mobile and kite them, taking them out methodically as your cooldowns pop up. Between Zither and Keeper, you can survive to do this.
Following me is part of that plan, because the Temple Ruins map is ultimately circular. If you fight in giant circle, enemy aggro ends up following from one direction, instead of having to deal with two, and ultimately wiping because you're overwhelmed from two directions (especially Red Templar ranged attacks).
Your memory is good, but your strategic assessment for the team composition is bad. No CC means + highly mobile party = move around, not fruitlessly defending one spot. Hunter would've been worse here, especially with worse stats.
I played bad, and I should've talked to you more about what to do, but my strategy for Elven Ruins was sound. Its worked plenty on multiple teams, levels, and players because it manipulates how the enemy behaves and controls their flow of damage to the party, while maximizing our own during engagement periods. A level 8 Hunter would've died multiple times before zone 5, and faded way before a Keeper would. Hunter is also insufficient DPS to cover both directions where enemies would come from, so being mobile would've still been the correct strategy, rather the incorrect one of staying in one place.
Wow really? You do know you're the one who told your two lady friends to stay in that corner, right? You're the teacher, remember? I had absolutely nothing to do with the instructions you gave them and how they followed those instructions to the letter. You didn't utter a single word to them because you had no idea what situation was simply because you were too far away to know. Your Lady Katari friend was probably just as confused as to why we were in that corner when the RTC was after her. To her credit, she was trying to kite the RTC around the pillars where you told us to stay while mobs kept swarming in. Meanwhile our main DPS was playing hero elsewhere. Don't shift the blame onto your party members when you're the one giving instructions. I would have told them to run around the map like my regular team always does. And you have no idea how I play my hunter.
And you have no idea how I play my hunter.
Enlighten me how you would play a level 8 hunter then. There's only so many points you can spend. So if you can bring out the magic, please explain how to do it.
This thread is great.
Who kites rtc anyway? Just nuke him as fast as possible, no sense in having him run around in 2nd or 3rd attack mode.
Wow really? You do know you're the one who told your two lady friends to stay in that corner, right? You're the teacher, remember? I had absolutely nothing to do with the instructions you gave them and how they followed those instructions to the letter. You didn't utter a single word to them because you had no idea what situation was simply because you were too far away to know. Your Lady Katari friend was probably just as confused
So there's a breakdown in communication, and there was a learning curve with the Avvar (iirc, most of you didn't use mics either), and I went with the simplest set of instructions to begin with. Both were fixable. That still doesn't make the hunter the right choice for team composition here. Mistakes were made, but not in the team composition.
Who kites rtc anyway? Just nuke him as fast as possible, no sense in having him run around in 2nd or 3rd attack mode.
Teams with insufficient burst dps to nuke him quickly, obviously. i.e. that team at that time.
Enlighten me how you would play a level 8 hunter then. There's only so many points you can spend. So if you can bring out the magic, please explain how to do it.
You're the master, always criticizing builds that aren't identical to your own. You figure it out. Maybe you'll learn why people actually love the kit.
You're the master, always criticizing builds that aren't identical to your own. You figure it out. Maybe you'll learn why people actually love the kit.
Aren't they? I criticize those builds because I've already played those builds and found them wanting. I don't publicly release everything I play, because the WIP process discovers the bad ones out there and why they're flawed.
As of right now, Hunter sucks and you can't prove otherwise. I'm not here to prove your claim. The burden of proof is yours.
I remember playing with drasca once, he did the whole rambo thing with us too, then we kicked him out after he rage quit a threatening game. Hilarious stuff. If you want to learn and get better at the game, just play how you want then learn from your mistakes. Dont listen to drascas cheesy trash 'tactics', because you're not going to learn anything and you are certainly not going to actually have fun, which is, you know, the point of the game.
BTW, LOL at anybody saying the hunter sucks, sounds like an L2P issue to me. I apparently blow chunks at the game and I can do perilous just fine with the hunter.
Guest_parkchesterbrah_*
Enlighten me how you would play a level 8 hunter then. There's only so many points you can spend. So if you can bring out the magic, please explain how to do it.
Leaping shot with upgrade, stealth with upgrade, explosive shot, and fallback plan. I actually use this build pretty frequently with a level 8 hunter on perilous, since doing one threatening run as a level 1 usually brings me to level 8. Works well on the castle map if the team is using the choke point rooms.
Strategy:
- first activate fallback plan in the "cubby hole" room where your team is hiding out, then go into stealth.
- maneuver into the fray outside, get into flank position, and do leaping shot, explosive shot, then hit fallback plan again to return back to your teammates behind the choke point.
- auto-attack until everything is off cool down, rinse and repeat.
You may not top the leader board, but it's perfectly viable, and most importantly, fun.
Aren't they? I criticize those builds because I've already played those builds and found them wanting. I don't publicly release everything I play, because the WIP process discovers the bad ones out there and why they're flawed.
As of right now, Hunter sucks and you can't prove otherwise. I'm not here to prove your claim. The burden of proof is yours.
Hunter exists and can kill things without being killed, therefore it doesn't suck. There, I proved you wrong.
Aren't they? I criticize those builds because I've already played those builds and found them wanting. I don't publicly release everything I play, because the WIP process discovers the bad ones out there and why they're flawed.
As of right now, Hunter sucks and you can't prove otherwise. I'm not here to prove your claim. The burden of proof is yours.
I never said he was a great class, I said people love the class despite his imperfections and can be played well enough in a team setting. How people do that and find joy in it at the same time is for you to find out, obviously. You can dictate your tactics all you like since it's your lobby. You're the boss. I'm just sorry for your friends whom you dictate tactics to only to find out you won't play according to the rules that you yourself set. I know I won't be letting anyone boss me around on how to have fun again.
Hunter exists and can kill things without being killed, therefore it doesn't suck. There, I proved you wrong.
Get the dozens of dead hunter players in just about every pug I've played (and most team games too) to avoid being killed, and I'd love to be proved wrong here.
Leaping shot with upgrade, stealth with upgrade, explosive shot, and fallback plan. I actually use this build pretty frequently with a level 8 hunter on perilous, since doing one threatening run as a level 1 usually brings me to level 8. Works well on the castle map if the team is using the choke point rooms.
I like this. Want to share your L19 build too?
You may not top the leader board
I don't like this, not because the leaderboard isn't topped (though there are seperate xp scoring issues I'd like addressed), but because the kill rate isn't very high, and that negatively affects the team.
I can spam LS + ES with OK on Archer, and now that HoK is craftable, why bring the Hunter in?
I'm just sorry for your friends whom you dictate tactics to only to find out you won't play according to the rules that you yourself set. I know I won't be letting anyone boss me around on how to have fun again.
Don't let someone who modifies their game files to be good at a casual PVE minigame boss you around. Check out the meetup threads and find some people who actually have positive social skills to play with. There is a lot of people on BSN who are really nice
I'm just sorry for your friends whom you dictate tactics to only to find out you won't play according to the rules that you yourself set. I know I won't be letting anyone boss me around on how to have fun again.
I'm sure they'll be so very upset with their unique dragon weapons, fast promotes, and gold gain. WIth one of them getting the unique bow and maul on his third day playing MP. So very very upset that you feel sorry for them. 
You're always free to pug amongst those other pugs that don't want to coordinate at all "I do what I want". We all know how awesome pugs are. /sarcasm
Get the dozens of dead hunter players in just about every pug I've played (and most team games too) to avoid being killed, and I'd love to be proved wrong here.
I don't like this, not because the leaderboard isn't topped (though there are seperate xp scoring issues I'd like addressed), but because the kill rate isn't very high, and that negatively affects the team.
I can spam LS + ES with OK on Archer, and now that HoK is craftable, why bring the Hunter in?
There's no point in arguing this with you since you just say you can always bring an archer instead. Fine, you play your archer, I like to play hunter from time to time and manage to stay alive in zone 5 perilous. I've also seen my share of dead archers in pugs so there's that.
And all this talk about negatively affecting the team. I would never play in a team where someone says I can't play some class because it "negatively affects the team." If I stay alive and we extract I'm not negatively affecting anything. You seem to hate pugs because you can't dictate what they do, I say so what. I mostly play pugs and actually enjoy it. Sometimes we win, sometimes not, but everyone's playing what they want and hopefully having some fun doing so.
You probably have some kind of points to refute everything I've said anyway so I'm just going to /abandon thread at this point.
I remember playing with drasca once, he did the whole rambo thing with us too, then we kicked him out after he rage quit a threatening game. Hilarious stuff. If you want to learn and get better at the game, just play how you want then learn from your mistakes. Dont listen to drascas cheesy trash 'tactics', because you're not going to learn anything and you are certainly not going to actually have fun, which is, you know, the point of the game.
BTW, LOL at anybody saying the hunter sucks, sounds like an L2P issue to me. I apparently blow chunks at the game and I can do perilous just fine with the hunter.
There's a guy on my friends list soloing perilous on his hunter way back 3 or 4 months ago with his trusty griffon bow long before the hunter got buffed. Doesn't speak English, unfortunately, but it was great watching him play. Speaking of friends list, I just got unfriended. I'm in tears...
I'm sure they'll be so very upset with their unique dragon weapons, fast promotes, and gold gain. WIth one of them getting the unique bow and maul on his third day playing MP. So very very upset that you feel sorry for them.
Yeah we've always left our lobbies public ever since the DLC was released. Imagine how happy the random strangers were that came in and got their dragon loot wtih people they don't even know and never told them what to do or what to play
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