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We are not the customers, we are the product


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#76
C0uncil0rTev0s

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I'm fine with being used to mine money from my pocket... Just get a decent pickaxe!

 

I mean it's what is called capitalism - someone wants money and makes a product to sell. Make the product you sell more attractive and you will get more money, isn't that freaking obvious?


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#77
Lord Surinen

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I'm fine with being used to mine money from my pocket... Just get a decent pickaxe!

 

I mean it's what is called capitalism - someone wants money and makes a product to sell. Make the product you sell more attractive and you will get more money, isn't that freaking obvious?

Yes, it is beautiful, truly and overwhelmingly. Problem lays with the customers, they have been gradually being manipulated into acceptance of DLC and other silly things,



#78
C0uncil0rTev0s

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Yes, it is beautiful, truly and overwhelmingly. Problem lays with the customers, they have been gradually being manipulated into acceptance of DLC and other silly things,

Was never fond of socialists tbh. And I see nothing wrong in paying for the product I like...

...but evidently DA:I isn't a product I like.



#79
Lord Surinen

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Was never fond of socialists tbh. And I see nothing wrong in paying for the product I like...

...but evidently DA:I isn't a product I like.

Nobody sane is. I miss the expansions content delivery though. Nowadays even when expansions appear then they get cut content to sell more DLCs and the worst part of it, very often these DLC things are shiny. I like shiny.


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#80
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 If anything EAWare is preparing to dish out DAs and MEs every year to maximize profits just to make their EA overlords happy enough not to close them. 

No doubt in my mind this is their clear agenda. Most of the core of BW is gone now developing other games, like The Banner Saga which is an awesome game. EA will continue to squeeze the life out of BW until the games they produce become irrelevant with time, having little to no fan backing, or until BW suffer the fate of previous companies that faded out once EA owned them.   


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#81
Ashen Nedra

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Yes, it is beautiful, truly and overwhelmingly. Problem lays with the customers, they have been gradually being manipulated into acceptance of DLC and other silly things,

 

 

I absolutely agree about the beauty of ethical capitalism, Lord Surinen.

 

However, sophisticated marketing techniques and dishonest communication from the devs/publishers share the larger part of the blame in this sad dance, imho.  Consumers can't be expected to be expert at everything.

 

Eaware destroyed their brand value and consumer fidelity with this one, at least as far as I'm concerned.



#82
AlanC9

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Was never fond of socialists tbh. And I see nothing wrong in paying for the product I like...
...but evidently DA:I isn't a product I like.

Nothing wrong with that. I didn't much like Skyrim, though it's still the best $5 I ever spent on a game. Best $2.50 I ever spent was for FTL.

#83
AlanC9

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Nobody sane is. I miss the expansions content delivery though. Nowadays even when expansions appear then they get cut content to sell more DLCs and the worst part of it, very often these DLC things are shiny. I like shiny.


Nobody sane, eh? Look, I get that you're not big on the whole rational argument thing, but this is just flamebait.
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#84
In Exile

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I absolutely agree about the beauty of ethical capitalism, Lord Surinen.

 

However, sophisticated marketing techniques and dishonest communication from the devs/publishers share the larger part of the blame in this sad dance, imho.  Consumers can't be expected to be expert at everything.

 

Eaware destroyed their brand value and consumer fidelity with this one, at least as far as I'm concerned.

 

Bioware was at the forefront of pushing DLC with the NWN premium models. They jumped on this train at the first station and haven't ever looked back. 


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#85
phantomrachie

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No doubt in my mind this is their clear agenda. Most of the core of BW is gone now developing other games, like The Banner Saga which is an awesome game. EA will continue to squeeze the life out of BW until the games they produce become irrelevant with time, having little to no fan backing, or until BW suffer the fate of previous companies that faded out once EA owned them.   

 

Yeah this is why BioWare had over 3 years to develop DA:I versus the less then 2 they got for DA 2..............



#86
Razir-Samus

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Nobody sane, eh? Look, I get that you're not big on the whole rational argument thing, but this is just flamebait.

the fallacy fallacy! :ph34r:

 

Yeah this is why BioWare had over 3 years to develop DA:I versus the less then 2 they got for DA 2..............

and still, i found DA2 a hell of a lot more enjoyable than DA:I simply because it was an experience fairly consistent with the game that came before it... that and the fact that the AI control via combat tactics and behaviors was still present, allowing me to really get into the game and watch my team grow as i learned the ins and outs of strategy, and adapted their tactics when i saw the need to... a depth that is sadly missing from DA:I


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#87
Ashen Nedra

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Bioware was at the forefront of pushing DLC with the NWN premium models. They jumped on this train at the first station and haven't ever looked back. 

Yes you're absolutely right. Witch Hunt was actually the first game that I 'found' on the Web after being fed up with trying to get the legitimate version to work on my computer. I wasn't aware that NWN was already afflicted by this practice.

 

NWN was great because of the community.  The first campaign was beyond ridiculous.

 

'Modules' (was it called that I can't recall?) such as the reboot of the Lone Wolf franchise, or the Necromancer adventure (brilliant, marvelous tactical combats) or persistent worlds, were just magnificent!

 

That's actually where my avatar name come from: Ashen (same name in all games since 2000, inspired by Ashen Sugar in the Feist books) and K'Nedra to add a little Drow flavor in Hordes of the Underdark (which was a proper expansion) to my Assassin/Mage/Shadow/... level 25+ main character in the NWN's multiverse.

 

So, EA and Bioware - they love DLCs- EAware. 

 

It's a very convenient misdirection to always separate the Holy devs and the Devilish publishers, imho.


Modifié par Ashen nedra, 12 janvier 2015 - 10:59 .


#88
Rawgrim

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If you approach an rpg with a checklist and a wiki you'll be hacking at bits of game with a known outcome. How can you expect to enjoy something when you are using a magnifying glass. If your not ever going to be happy they aren't going to target you... it's not rocket science.

 

The devil is in the details, as they say. And details are easier to spot if you use a magnifying glass.



#89
Lord Surinen

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Nobody sane, eh? Look, I get that you're not big on the whole rational argument thing, but this is just flamebait.

From the whole comment you have picked up 3 initial words and you base your opinion on it. Let's focus on the expansion thing.

 

 

I absolutely agree about the beauty of ethical capitalism, Lord Surinen.

 

However, sophisticated marketing techniques and dishonest communication from the devs/publishers share the larger part of the blame in this sad dance, imho.  Consumers can't be expected to be expert at everything.

 

Eaware destroyed their brand value and consumer fidelity with this one, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Everyone should espire to ethical practise.

 

Of course they can't, but nobody should ever believe in adverts. It is better to act wisely (unlike me) and wait after release to buy the game.



#90
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Yeah this is why BioWare had over 3 years to develop DA:I versus the less then 2 they got for DA 2..............

Again people act as if development time = quality. As I stated before Duke Nukem Forever had 15 years of development time and still is a piece of crap game. Dev time =/= quality. I don't care if EA gave BW 30 years of dev time. If a game is bad, its bad period. Development time means nothing. 



#91
Ashen Nedra

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From the whole comment you have picked up 3 initial words and you base your opinion on it. Let's focus on the expansion thing.

 

 

Everyone should espire to ethical practise.

 

Of course they can't, but nobody should ever believe in adverts. It is better to act wisely (unlike me) and wait after release to buy the game.

 

Yeah, I feel you I got screwed too.

 

Never again, Hype, never again.



#92
Innsmouth Dweller

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i don't care about the money, i just want to have a really cool toy to distract me from my boring life. i'm willing to pay every dime i have to get it. very few games managed to do that and, from what is happening to gaming industry lately, i don't believe any new ones will. maybe it's some kind of social movement - make game addicts hate games, bore them to death or something? it's a slow process, but i think i see a pattern. i don't think DA:I is boring... it's just lacking

 

anyway... my RL PC is much more interesting than the Inquisitor, so maybe my life isn't as boring as i thought after all, huh. better graphics, cuz apparently that's what games are all about.



#93
phantomrachie

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the fallacy fallacy! :ph34r:

 

and still, i found DA2 a hell of a lot more enjoyable than DA:I simply because it was an experience fairly consistent with the game that came before it... that and the fact that the AI control via combat tactics and behaviors was still present, allowing me to really get into the game and watch my team grow as i learned the ins and outs of strategy, and adapted their tactics when i saw the need to... a depth that is sadly missing from DA:I

 

Oh I'm not slagging DA2, I like it. In fact there are times that I like it more than DA:O. I was responding to 10K's comment that clearly Bioware is going to release a game a year, by highlighting that development time has increased so there is no proof of his claim.

 

Again people act as if development time = quality. As I stated before Duke Nukem Forever had 15 years of development time and still is a piece of crap game. Dev time =/= quality. I don't care if EA gave BW 30 years of dev time. If a game is bad, its bad period. Development time means nothing. 

 

You agreed with a person who was saying that BioWare's agenda was to start producing a a DA or ME game a year.

 

I was highlighting that the development time of DA:I was increased from the development time of DA2 so you've no proof that such an agenda exists. If it did then the development time would've been reduced. 



#94
In Exile

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Yes you're absolutely right. Witch Hunt was actually the first game that I 'found' on the Web after being fed up with trying to get the legitimate version to work on my computer. I wasn't aware that NWN was already afflicted by this practice.

NWN was great because of the community. The first campaign was beyond ridiculous.

'Modules' (was it called that I can't recall?) such as the reboot of the Lone Wolf franchise, or the Necromancer adventure (brilliant, marvelous tactical combats) or persistent worlds, were just magnificent!

That's actually where my avatar name come from: Ashen (same name in all games since 2000, inspired by Ashen Sugar in the Feist books) and K'Nedra to add a little Drow flavor in Hordes of the Underdark (which was a proper expansion) to my Assassin/Mage/Shadow/... level 25+ main character in the NWN's multiverse.

So, EA and Bioware - they love DLCs- EAware.

It's a very convenient misdirection to always separate the Holy devs and the Devilish publishers, imho.


I hated the NWN OC but I loved the fanmade mods. They're what really got me into RPGs. Before that I was very much all about the RTS and FPS genre - what I saw as the staple of PC gaming in contrast to adventure games and platformers on console.

#95
ORTesc

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This is like that time I saw that movie about being in a dream while dreaming about a dream. Then I woke up and had sh** myself...