41 réponses à ce sujet

[New Messages]

I have recently reached skyhold with a mage inquisitor in hard mode, and started the quest for a specialization for the inquisitor. Thing is: Since I heard Knight enchanter solos the hardest mode while under leveled, under geared, and not really paying attention to the game while the player is having a seizure, I guess I really should avoid it in order to keep the game at least mildly challenging.

This didn't sound like such a big deal at first. I thought there was a blood mage specialization (which was quite good in the last two games), and when it turned out that there wasn't, the other two specializations seemed quite cool... until I read their skills. Somehow, it seems like spending the skill points in standard skill trees is better than investing in them.

 

Since it should be easier to nerf an OP character than to buff an UP one, I'm considering taking the Knight Enchanter specialization, and then not taking the main skills that make it so powerful. I guess a single one of them should drop it from "Game breaking" to "game changing", making it a very good choice overall.

 

What do you guys think? Would this be possible without nerfing the KE TOO much? And if so, which skills would have to be avoided?

[billpickles]

Most people will tell you just don't use Spirit Blade.  Without it, though, I don't see much draw to the specialization.

 

For what it's worth, I doubt you'd find Rift Mage "underpowered".  Pull of the Abyss and Firestorm are both quite powerful.

[MarakaiBen]

You can't. Unless you want to totally gimp yourself, but then you can as well roll Rift Mage or Necromancer becasue there will be no point of being KE.

 

Two main things that make KE what he is is: Fade Shield and Fade Cloak. First lets you put 30% dmg you make to generate barrier and second makes you invisbile and outouchable for 2 seconds while being able to cast spells and attack. Also after leaving Fade Cloak (upgraded) you deal 1000% damage AOE. But you can't skip them- because then there is no point of playing KE. So this take always, don't listen to whinners.

 

The standard "semi-not OP early Nightmare" build is to go Fire Tree- all passives and grab Fire Mine, skip Spirit Tree totally. This way your have to deal burst damage to get barrier because you can't cast it. I recommend this since any point in Spirit Tree befire maxing Fire and KE tree is waste of points.

 

Still when you will get good at it, you will own everything.

 

So my recommendation is to skip Fire Tree. Get All stuff from KE tree apart from Ultimate and Field (last skill that slow enemies).

 

Then go and invest in Frost or Lightning Tree. This way you will loose two BIGGEST OP things KE can have:

1. Clean Burn from Fire Tree (each time you swing SB, all CDs go 1 sec down- means Fade Cloak spam)

2. Fire Mine (biggest burst spell in game, which generate maximum barrier instantly).

 

If you will skip Fire Tree and Spirit Tree- you have a decent build, but much more challanging. Since you will have to think about CDs and you will have no easy way to generate barrier (no barrier spell, no Fire Mine, no Fade Cloak spam).

 

Also- DO NOT take with you any mage with barrier skill or just disable this skill for him.

 

That is only what I can reccomend. I beat Nightmare KE mostly solo and there is only two things that make KE really OP (every other spec is OP with right build...)- Clean Burn and Fire Mine.

[stop_him]

Every spec in the game is OP with the right gear, and higher levels.

[sergel02]

Why not just avoid taking Fade Shield? You still get some nice skills, and your barrier lasts longer. Distortion field is useful too. 

[wepeel_]

What sergel02 says. Skip Fade Shield and use a regular barrier instead. You will then no longer be able to go into melee with a "the more people that attack me, the better!"-mentality. Instead you will have to pick your targets and depend on tanks to keep aggro away from you. With Fade Cloak (and Disruption Field) you will still have better defensive capabilities than the average mage. You will still be able to melee, you just can't depend on it as the only thing you do anymore.

[Rynas]

Skipping Clean Burn would also be a milder nerf.  Skipping the Fade Cloak upgrade, too.

 

Don't count out the Rift Mage, though - very strong and fun to play if you like spamming spells from a distance.

[ThelLastTruePatriot]

Every spec in the game is OP with the right gear, and higher levels.

exactly, I wish people would stop singling out KE as if it is the sole class capable of doing what every other can't. With crappy gear you can make an assassin who will have superior damage to a KE, and due to stealth on enemy defeat, is just as unkillable as a KE.

[JaegerBane]

exactly, I wish people would stop singling out KE as if it is the sole class capable of doing what every other can't. With crappy gear you can make an assassin who will have superior damage to a KE, and due to stealth on enemy defeat, is just as unkillable as a KE.

Same here. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that pointless spirit blade nerf bioware fast-tracked into the first patch - past all the real issues that needed fixing - was done in an effort to appease all the screaming about how horrendously terribly OP it was, from whom half of which probably hadn't done much more than watch YouTube.

[Rynas]

Same here. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to find out that pointless spirit blade nerf bioware fast-tracked into the first patch - past all the real issues that needed fixing - was done in an effort to appease all the screaming about how horrendously terribly OP it was, from whom half of which probably hadn't done much more than watch YouTube.

 

Well, I'm a little disappointed about that nerf, but it was OP, to be honest.  An AOE detonator...that costs 10 mana...and has no cooldown...and can be used for solo cross-class combos?  If anything in this game was OP, it was that.

[Poisd2Strike]

Well, I'm a little disappointed about that nerf, but it was OP, to be honest.  An AOE detonator...that costs 10 mana...and has no cooldown...and can be used for solo cross-class combos?  If anything in this game was OP, it was that.

 

I will grant you that the Spirit Blade detonator (pre-nerf) was a bit OP.  The again, so is Flask of Lightning + Thousand Cuts, just Thousand Cuts  or just Flask of Lightning.  However, you would think Bioware would prioritize fixing the various bugs and glitches that exist in DAI (across all platforms) over nerfing an OP ability in what is a (primarily) Single Player game.

 

OP:  Don't take Fade Shield.

[wepeel_]

exactly, I wish people would stop singling out KE as if it is the sole class capable of doing what every other can't. With crappy gear you can make an assassin who will have superior damage to a KE, and due to stealth on enemy defeat, is just as unkillable as a KE.

 

On regular trash mobs, totally. Pretty much every class and spec can faceroll those when properly developed. Solo against tough/immune enemies though, things are different.

[actionhero112]

On regular trash mobs, totally. Pretty much every class and spec can faceroll those when properly developed. Solo against tough/immune enemies though, things are different.

We have videos of every rogue specialization defeating solo the hardest dragon in the game, the highland ravager, in less than 30 seconds on nightmare.

 

We know that the champion can beat the highland ravager on nightmare solo.

 

The reaver can also solo the highland ravager on nightmare solo.

 

More than half specializations in the game can solo the hardest boss in the game on the hardest difficulty.

[JaegerBane]

Well, I'm a little disappointed about that nerf, but it was OP, to be honest.  An AOE detonator...that costs 10 mana...and has no cooldown...and can be used for solo cross-class combos?  If anything in this game was OP, it was that.

You could have said the same about Stonefist (more expensive but on a spec that never runs out of mana), and that is still in there, along with the multiple rogue builds that steamroll dragons in literally under a minute. If we're ranking things by OP then spirit blade detonator wouldn't even make the first page. Whatever got that nerf past all the actual issues was nothing to do with being powerful.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

We have videos of every rogue specialization defeating solo the hardest dragon in the game, the highland ravager, in less than 30 seconds on nightmare.

 

We know that the champion can beat the highland ravager on nightmare solo.

 

The reaver can also solo the highland ravager on nightmare solo.

 

More than half specializations in the game can solo the hardest boss in the game on the hardest difficulty.

okay

 

but knight enchanter does this with no thought process and no real build

3 points into KE and you are broken 

 

seriously

respec your KE to have only 3 points used and leave everything in limbo/unused

 

spirit blade -> other thingy -> 30% of your damage is barrier

 

every other build needs skills and talents from other trees to be broken

knight enchanter literally needs 3 points to be broken

most spec builds need atleast 12 points

[sergel02]

What sergel02 says. Skip Fade Shield and use a regular barrier instead. You will then no longer be able to go into melee with a "the more people that attack me, the better!"-mentality. Instead you will have to pick your targets and depend on tanks to keep aggro away from you. With Fade Cloak (and Disruption Field) you will still have better defensive capabilities than the average mage. You will still be able to melee, you just can't depend on it as the only thing you do anymore.

I'm playing my KE now without it. Only level 10, but yeah, not sensing the OPness since I don't have Fade Shield. I like Spirit Blade since it's all new (though the animation seems long). My staff does more damage and I bolt and immolate, and fade cloak and spirit blade when enemies get close or there is something with barrier or guard. 

 

It's more managing deciding when to go into melee for the mana and FC and SB and when to stay at range and cast. Also watching barrier when you're in melee. It takes some getting used to, but I'm enjoying it. Without fade shield, the playstyle or moveset doesn't dramatically change like reaver.

 

For some reason Fade Cloak doesn't always damage though.

[Rynas]

okay

 

but knight enchanter does this with no thought process and no real build

3 points into KE and you are broken 

 

seriously

respec your KE to have only 3 points used and leave everything in limbo/unused

 

spirit blade -> other thingy -> 30% of your damage is barrier

 

every other build needs skills and talents from other trees to be broken

knight enchanter literally needs 3 points to be broken

most spec builds need atleast 12 points

 

I call BS on that.  Maybe ok in group (anything is ok in group), but not soloing Nightmare.  SB doesn't keep your barrier up and FC's cooldown is too long to save you.

 

Anyway, my rogue with 5 points (Stealth+, Flank Attack+, Twin Fangs) was able to solo almost anything non-stealth-piercing on Nightmare.  Other abilities just make it easier and less boring.

 

Similarly, KE with SB, FC+, and Clean Burn (7 points) can solo just about anything, but it's tedious and boring.  But you have a lot of points left over to make it interesting and dish out damage.  That's a good thing, not a bad thing.

[draken-heart]

Then go and invest in Frost or Lightning Tree. This way you will loose two BIGGEST OP things KE can have:
1. Clean Burn from Fire Tree (each time you swing SB, all CDs go 1 sec down- means Fade Cloak spam)
2. Fire Mine (biggest burst spell in game, which generate maximum barrier instantly).

I thought about a winter/storm hybrid. Then I thought that I would have to get peaceful aura for threat reduction. may still try it.

Still, once you get your gear up right, and get high enough level, any spec+KE is pretty OP in melee (which is a KE to many).

[actionhero112]

okay

 

but knight enchanter does this with no thought process and no real build

3 points into KE and you are broken 

 

seriously

respec your KE to have only 3 points used and leave everything in limbo/unused

 

spirit blade -> other thingy -> 30% of your damage is barrier

 

every other build needs skills and talents from other trees to be broken

knight enchanter literally needs 3 points to be broken

most spec builds need atleast 12 points

Uh no. They need more. They need clean burn to continually stay in fade cloak, and they need fade step to close distance. 

 

You can do entire dragon fights with just shield wall. Yep. Because it blocks all breath attacks and claw attacks, a dragon can't do anything to you. That's not even a specialization, that's just a tier 1 ability that you can get immediately in the game. 

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Sup. 

 

started my nightmare solo and just got my KE

stripped everything but 

 

Im using  points and this **** is boring but im not dying

fade shreild combat clarity blade

 

masterworks on my 4 different staves:

4 hidden blades and on kill 30 magic [rng from sacks ] [fire staff]

3 hidden blades and walking fortress [lightning staff]

chain lightning and immolate [cold staff]

fade cloak and walking bomb [fire staff]

its t2 schematics 

 

im in the most literal way soloing the game with a 3 point build 

fights are boring and long but i'm getting the job done 

[Biotic Flash Kick]

staves and armors* 

 

i crafted 4 sets of armor and 4 staves and i usually work those ones in pairs 

 

but yeah

if it gets too boring i break out immolate armor and chain lightning staff 

[Rynas]

Sup.

started my nightmare solo and just got my KE
stripped everything but

Im using points and this **** is boring but im not dying
fade shreild combat clarity blade

masterworks on my 4 different staves:
4 hidden blades and on kill 30 magic [rng from sacks ] [fire staff]
3 hidden blades and walking fortress [lightning staff]
chain lightning and immolate [cold staff]
fade cloak and walking bomb [fire staff]
its t2 schematics

im in the most literal way soloing the game with a 3 point build
fights are boring and long but i'm getting the job done

Literally, eh?

Spirit Blade = 1 point
Fade Cloak = 1 point
Fade Shield requires Combat Clarity, that would be 4 points. So you must not have Fade Shield.

So you're soloing Nightmare in T2 gear with no Fade Shield, no Clean Burn, and no other abilities. Really? I'd love to see how that works, especially against any 16+ rift.

[squidney2k1]

Pick any 2 of the 3 and it would be a mild nerf:

- Don't use Spirit Blade, or
- Don't use the upgraded Fade Cloak, or
- Don't use Fade Shield

Now your Knight Enchanter mage isn't so OP. Still damn good, though.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Literally, eh?

Spirit Blade = 1 point
Fade Cloak = 1 point
Fade Shield requires Combat Clarity, that would be 4 points. So you must not have Fade Shield.

So you're soloing Nightmare in T2 gear with no Fade Shield, no Clean Burn, and no other abilities. Really? I'd love to see how that works, especially against any 16+ rift.

the fade cloak is 10% proc from one of my armors

the first masterworks are from the armors

the second are from staves 

 

Rifts suck I save before them and ill switch out armors and staves.

Lots of wisps and despair? ill use Fire staff with walking bomb and 4 hidden blades armor/fade cloak armor

[the 3 hidden blades armor has lots of cold and magic resist] [4 hidden blades has more magic/crit]

 

the 3 points are clarity shield and blade

[Rynas]

You're soloing Nightmare using only Spirit Blade, in T2 gear, relying on procs for defense?  Again, I call BS.  Happy to be proven wrong with a video, though.