That has more to do with the fragility of low-level characters than anything else. And the silly PC dies = game over thing; it'd be OK if Bio had been serious about Bhaalpawn being non-resurrectable, but that got retconned in the sequel.
How did that get retconned? You couldn't ressurect the min character in the sequel either.
I'm with you. My personal fav was NWN because of how honest it was with the DnD 3 game set. And the tool set. It gave me and my DnD buddies a chance to play without having to plan out a DnD gathering. In general the whole gaming industry has thrown out coop for the idea of online MP. Which sucks. I'm a fan of racing games for instance, but none of the new racing games let you do the whole split screen side by side racing anymore. And remember Tie Fighter, hook up two PC's with local LAN and go head to head or coop. Lan Parties with Masters of Orion or Civilizations, I miss those days.
Yes, it is sad. People these days complain about co-op being announced for stabilished franchises like Dragon Age, but we must remember that bioware was known for making great games with co-op and great storytelling. After all, what is RPG if not a game that encourages cooperation? But when people spoke here about adding co-op to Dragon Age, a lot of people said NO, which is odd. A game is not bad because it has co-op... if a game is bad, co-op is not to blame. Co-op can make a bad game be enjoyable, in fact.
I am with you too. I wish there were more coop games that allowed us to play the whole game with friends, not AI, as in Dragon Age and Mass Effect (both have good multiplayer, but they would be better if it was in the main campaign).
How did that get retconned? You couldn't ressurect the min character in the sequel either.
AlanC9 is talking about Sarevok. The Bhaalspawn kills him in BG1, but he can be recruited companion in BG2. Sarevok is a Bhaalspawn so resurrection should not be possible.
I've been giving more thought to this lately, and I e come to the the conclusion that Bioware has simply been toppled from their place as SPRPG Kings. At one time they had titles like Kights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire, Mass Effect 1, and Origins. Each and every one of these was a top notch, amazingly immersive game you couldn't out down. But the last few years have produced, ME3, DA2, Inquisition, and The Old Republic.
They grew complacent and greedy and lazy. And it shows. It's only due to the massive fan base they built earlier that this hasn't completely destroyed them.
It's clear to me that Bethesda is the new King of the SPRPG world, and it's a bit of a shame, because Bethesda's storytelling is quite lacking.
When was Bethesda not the King? They've always beaten BioWare (and everyone else) in sales.
Skyrim will blow the **** out of the combined sales of DA:I, the Witcher 3, and Pillars of Eternity.
Morrowind sold over four million on PC and the OG Xbox.
I'm not sure how they did with Morrowind. Oblivion I think was their major arrival.
I'm fairly sure I saw between 6 and 7 million for Oblivion a few years ago. It's almost impossible for RPGs to break that 10 mil barrier.
And 6-7 mil isn't that much better than Morrowind or Bioware's games. That being said I can't be sure if that number for Oblivion is accurate...
When was Bethesda not the King? They've always beaten BioWare (and everyone else) in sales.
Skyrim will blow the **** out of the combined sales of DA:I, the Witcher 3, and Pillars of Eternity.
I'm not really talking about sales numbers. I'm talking more about the quality of the game they put out. Sales numbers don't properly reflect this. As any AAA game with the advertising of a massive mega company like EA behind it will probably get more sales than smaller companies which produce quality games.
Bethesda is pretty much undisputed king these days, but they've always fallen short in the story aspect of their RPGs. Square Enix fell several years ago, and now Bioware is in the gutter with them. I recently bought the Witcher 2 (never played before) but most people seem to say Projekt Red is one of the few RPG developers who still have their souls. I guess I'll be the judge once I've played it for myself.
It's just my opinion, but, DA:O felt more alive in both mechanics/fighting, storytelling and intensity than did any of the Elder Scrolls series. In terms of exploration, elder scrolls for sure, and it'd be a stretch to claim DA had more invested in story for each particular location.. But that's it, DA:O did for me.. No other DA did.
SO it was a fair comparison, at least to me, between comaring DA:O with Elder Scrolls, or Bioware versus Bethesda, and the further DA comes, the further it goes away from that comparison, being that Bethesda vastly comes out ahead in terms of single player (Mechanics/Story/Settings).
Unrelated to the above statements about Bioware V Bethesda.. But just thought about it..
I somehow had the impression we'd have something to do with The Deep Roads, more than maybe two quests, but we did not. Nor did we take a visit to Orzimmar. It even felt like they blew up the temple of sacred ashes to avoid ever having to worry about it again design wise. Prologue, starting quests for each race/background would have been nicer IMO with the four races, than being given a text with your 'background' and the only background that really seems to popup later are warboard missions.
One of the things that made Origins stand out for me versus other single player rpgs was how race affected your game play or overall story. Like dwarf commoner versus royalty, different short scenarios and the like. Games like skyrim just give you the the nameless prisoner role. So, yeah.. I don't know if they'll ever make another Origins like game for Bioware that can stand up to Bethesda's ES series.
Funny thing. Were you ever listening to elderly people, let's say War Veterans?
Because, you know, we 'loyal fans' start sound exactly like em.
It isn't bad, it isn't good. It's just the world has moved on in the direction we hate, and we were left behind.
This point holds a lot less merit than you think it does in this case, this is a sequel, the intention of sequels is too capitilize on the goodwill generate but it's prequel, you can build on it but countless franchises have fallen by ignoring what's gone before.
AlanC9 is talking about Sarevok. The Bhaalspawn kills him in BG1, but he can be recruited companion in BG2. Sarevok is a Bhaalspawn so resurrection should not be possible.
I thought he lost his Bhaalspawn essence after he died in BG1?
I'm not really talking about sales numbers. I'm talking more about the quality of the game they put out. Sales numbers don't properly reflect this. As any AAA game with the advertising of a massive mega company like EA behind it will probably get more sales than smaller companies which produce quality games.
Bethesda is pretty much undisputed king these days, but they've always fallen short in the story aspect of their RPGs. Square Enix fell several years ago, and now Bioware is in the gutter with them. I recently bought the Witcher 2 (never played before) but most people seem to say Projekt Red is one of the few RPG developers who still have their souls. I guess I'll be the judge once I've played it for myself.
Bethesda seems to struggle with the main story in their games, but for the most part their Guild questlines tend to be very very good.
Hey mein Alter! (Bist du ebenfalls Deutscher?)
No need to worry about spoiling anybody in this section of the forum when it comes to DA:O content !!!
I only put my picture's in the posting above into that "spoiler-box" because it will take up less space in the thread.
And if you want to use this "spoiler-box" yourself - go to the editor and look to the upper left corner and then take the third button from the left in the upper row. The button next to the eraser (neben dem Radiergummi). It will give you all sorts of options. Just open the drop-down-menu from the new window.
And of course you have to be right about the DLC's! It would not be a real Dragon Age or a real Bioware title when no monstrous DLC's were to come out at some point ... But I will not make any bets here myself. I think Bioware has many options and I want them to surprise me anyway!
Vielen Dank nochmal für deine nette Antwort und man sieht sich im BSN, Enclave777
Ja, bin geborener Deutscher, lebe aber schon seit dem elften lebensjahr im Ausland, also Spanien und dann seit '97 in den USA. Deshalb fallts mir manchmal etwas schwer auf Deutsch zu schreiben lol, ganz speziel weil mir die Umlauten auf dem Keyboard hier fehlen haha.
Also ich bin mir sicher das Bioware gerade an einem grossen Patch arbeitet, und vielleicht haben sie ja ihr Development Team in zwei geteilt, um an den Patch und dem DLC gleichzeitig zu arbeiten.
Ich gehe halt von der erfahrungen mit Bethesda und Obsidian aus, damals zur zeit von Fallout New Vegas, wo dieses Spiel ja auch einige probleme hatte, die mehrere Patches brauchte. Da haben sich auch so viele Leute beklagt wie hier auf diesem forum, was eigentlich auch irgendwo etwas ubertrieben ist, so wie sich die Leute uber das Spiel beklagen.
Aber die Leute beklagen sich halt immer gerne lol.
Muss mann sich nur wunderen ob es einen riesen grossen DLC geben wird, oder mehrere kleine-medium DLCs.
Na ja, mann wird ja sehen.
Danke nochmals uber den tip mit der Spoiler Option.
Also Servus Dann! 
AlanC9 is talking about Sarevok. The Bhaalspawn kills him in BG1, but he can be recruited companion in BG2. Sarevok is a Bhaalspawn so resurrection should not be possible.
Ja, bin geborener Deutscher, lebe aber schon seit dem elften lebensjahr im Ausland, also Spanien und dann seit '97 in den USA. Deshalb fallts mir manchmal etwas schwer auf Deutsch zu schreiben lol, ganz speziel weil mir die Umlauten auf dem Keyboard hier fehlen haha.
Also ich bin mir sicher das Bioware gerade an einem grossen Patch arbeitet, und vielleicht haben sie ja ihr Development Team in zwei geteilt, um an den Patch und dem DLC gleichzeitig zu arbeiten.
Ich gehe halt von der erfahrungen mit Bethesda und Obsidian aus, damals zur zeit von Fallout New Vegas, wo dieses Spiel ja auch einige probleme hatte, die mehrere Patches brauchte. Da haben sich auch so viele Leute beklagt wie hier auf diesem forum, was eigentlich auch irgendwo etwas ubertrieben ist, so wie sich die Leute uber das Spiel beklagen.
Aber die Leute beklagen sich halt immer gerne lol.
Muss mann sich nur wunderen ob es einen riesen grossen DLC geben wird, oder mehrere kleine-medium DLCs.
Na ja, mann wird ja sehen.
Danke nochmals uber den tip mit der Spoiler Option.
Also Servus Dann!
Gerne, kein Ding!
Wenn du den Tipp gut fandest hab ich noch was für dich! Hoffe es gefällt dir 
Ha ha ... Ich bin so gut!
Wie auch immer ... Ich denke wir sollten besser auf Englisch miteinander kommunizieren hier im Forum. Sonst fangen die anderen "Flameboys" noch an zu heulen 
und dann gehen die ganzen schönen Flammen aus, oder so Oder man hetzt uns die Polizei auf den Hals 
... weil wir im BSN andere User verärgert haben mit sprachlichen Mitteln, hehe! Was im BSN ja völlig undenkbar wäre 
...
Actually, I was talking about Imoen.
Yes, that was quite the retcon. It was perhaps not important to many people, but it was very grating to me (being the nerd I am)
Also quite inconsistent, even in BG2, since Imoen was always resurrectable in that game too, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.
You have played Skyrim for 2000 hours ... are you insane ??? I played it for nothing less than 400+ hours and I have exausted every tiny bit in the game that remotely interested me. I cannot comprehend how you managed to last 2000 hours and still have fun with it. I mostly played it because I was waiting for Inquisition and had no other contemporary RPG that interested me around. But even still ... I could have easily quit that thing much earlier because it is constructed so simple. It has not that much to offer to me. I mean I even constantly had to raise the difficulty artificially by minimising my armor ratings and so on. But I guess, I digress ... (All of it is subjective anyway ...)
When it comes to Inquisition, man, I have played not that much. My first playthrough ended at around 110 hours of playtime. And I stopped in my tracks in my second playthrough after about ten hours. I just could not take it anymore! There is so much wrong with the game for me ...
I am an Origins fan and generally a fan of more tactical RPG's and RPG's that have more complexity to their combat system. I like many things about Inquisition and I think they did nicely in many areas in Inquisition.
But man ...
For me it will take far more than 1 DLC to fix this game! Just saying ...
You should see a modders hours, but then we see aspects of the game engine and new quest material that no one could have predicted.
You should see a modders hours, but then we see aspects of the game engine and new quest material that no one could have predicted.
Okay, but as a modder you do far more than just playing! You are being creative and artistic.
And most of of all you are working on building all the things your mind can think of and that your heart desires.
I mean as long as it is feasible in regards to workload and time and so on ...
As a result of all that your motivation is far higher and takes on a different shape than the motivation of the usual player.
That is a very different thing to do. Wouldn't you agree?
You're right, but of course in BG1 they hadn't yet decided that Imoen was a Bhaalspawn. I guess that's their first retcon ever.Yes, that was quite the retcon. It was perhaps not important to many people, but it was very grating to me (being the nerd I am)
Also quite inconsistent, even in BG2, since Imoen was always resurrectable in that game too, if my memory isn't playing tricks on me.
Origins is not the best game omg. The 3 main quests are boring as hell once you've done them twice. I don't understand all this nostalgia for a game that was enjoyable for the first/second time but after that gets tedious.
DA:I isn't perfect but it's my favourite in the series so far. The people who want Bioware to go back to making games like Origins are stuck in the past and need to realise that it's not going to happen. (And I don't want it to happen).
Origins is not the best game omg. The 3 main quests are boring as hell once you've done them twice. I don't understand all this nostalgia for a game that was enjoyable for the first/second time but after that gets tedious.
DA:I isn't perfect but it's my favourite in the series so far. The people who want Bioware to go back to making games like Origins are stuck in the past and need to realise that it's not going to happen. (And I don't want it to happen).
It's wrong to call it nostalgia if you still play the games to this day and greatly enjoy them as I do. But you're probably right about BW not making games like they did in the past. This is why they won't be getting any more of my money. They've essentially lost a customer who used to think they were THE best game design company. I bought books, games, sound tracks. But now they won't get another cent.
They aren't the same company they used to be. Somewhere along the line they changed their vision of what made a game great. Luckily, there are others who can take up the torch.
EDIT: If you thought the Origins quests were tedious after the second play-through, I can't imagine what you think of the Inquisition's subsequent play-throughs. It's like the definition of tedious.
I find Origins tedious. Love Inquisition and Baldur's Gate. My two favourite games.
So I don't think Bioware has lost anything. I wasn't keen on many of the games they made in between, so for me they're making a bit of a come back!
I find Origins tedious. Love Inquisition and Baldur's Gate. My two favourite games.
So I don't think Bioware has lost anything. I wasn't keen on many of the games they made in between, so for me they're making a bit of a come back!
Buggy FB3 engine, very questionable lack of character customization (hairstyles specifically), terrible up close conversations, and hack and slash, dumbed down AI..
Between BG and Origins, which is closer to BG because of the combat, I do not see how you could like inquisition as they are a night and day difference.
But it's just an opinion I have that this makes no sense.
Actually, I was talking about Imoen.
You are right about that one. Imoen is a plot hole.
Could be the ressurection is just impossible because if you die, the plot of the game is ruined since your Bhaal essence is gone.
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