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Bioware, Origins is still your best game. Why can't you do it again?


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#276
Abyss108

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He needed Ferelden to have an enemy, so people would flock to his side. No need to do that if it was "just the king" dying. The loss of an army at Ostagar had people flocking to his side.

 

Didn't need to kill the army for that to happen. And people didn't flock to his side afterwards, even before you turned up people were turning against him. People would have been a lot more likely to be on his side if he hadn't ran away from Ostagar looking like a coward.

 

I will first say that people have their preferences, but I still am not sure if you know what I meant by some of these things that I listed.

 

zoom in to conversations, did not like that. I liked being in short dialogue conversations. I don't like the way the camera focused on the npc, when I am on a different character like varric for example, and my character, who isn't near the npc, talks as if he is within whisper range of the target. The current dialogue for quest npcs or npcs that aren't in cutscenes are lazy and I feel it was an attempt to bandage how buggy FB3 cutscenes are by having the awkward zoom in.

 

Hack and Slash - The tactical zoom! WHY IS IT SO SHORT? I can't even see all of my units. If I used a third and illegal party program to fix this I'd be much happier with it but no, I cannot break the ToS. That's the ONLY way to eliminate the hack and slash feel of the game. You cannot tell me holding down a button to auto attack is appealing? Because it isn't for me. But that's just me! I don't know how anyone can enjoy seeing you legolas staff attacks as if it were a bow. Spells in this game are short of meaningless aside from your frost and barrier skills. You are better served with still playing the support role mage while hack and slashing with your staff while your too low on mana to cast anything else. Have you tried playing reaver yet? Hold dragon rage down for your 4-5k critical strikes. Granted, you do lose health per swing, but if you are smart about using the %health lost ability you will be fine. The combat is closer to a devil may cry than a role playing game setting and I don't see how I can possibly be wrong about that, all it lacks is the style points feature. 

 

Plot, your character is a generic build with no real origin or prologue feature. I already said this too I'm sure but you don't have anything negative happen to you aside from being cursed with the "must save the world from a generic villain". In origins, you had more diverse backgrounds to draw from for your hero of ferelden. Dwarf commoner or dwarf royalty each had their own rough start which came back to haunt Harrowmont or Bhelen when they become king. I had absolutely NO connection with my character. He just seemed to do everything the right way. It felt like my character was pulled from Bleach the manga, always the solution to the problem. In origins, you had to depend far more on your counterparts for how the game would end. Aside from more interesting dialogue choices and party banter, I'd hazard the only truly necessary character to the story was Solas, and maybe Cassandra for starting the Inquisition. That's it!

 

That being said, I only have my opinions, and I felt DA:I wasn't as good as O or 2 for that matter, still fun.

 

I didn't have any cutscene bugs in my game... I've heard they exist for some people, but I've got about 300 hours on the game, and not had a single problem here. Not saying they don't exist, but I can't really comment on something I've never had happen...  It didn't feel lazy to me anyway, because I don't see the point of having the camera change. In a big important scene, sure, but when random NPC #183 asks me to deliver some flowers? There's nothing I really want to see there.

 

Tactical camera sucked. 100% agree on this. Spells weren't useless for me... I was using the fire wall spells to block enemies, and the lightning ones to keep them contained or to paralyse them when they got too close. Fade spells to draw them to the same location, so I could bombard them with smaller AoE spells. etc, etc. I haven't tried Reaver, I always play mage teams. The other classes don't really interest me.

 

I can see why people don't like not having an Origin, but I think I lucked out in choosing to play as an Elf. There's a lot of interesting things at the start for an Elf. I'm an apostate in chains by the Chantry - there's pretty much a Dalish worst nightmare. I'm the chosen one for a religion I don't believe in - how are my people gonna react to THAT one?. I'm adapting to human living conditions after spending my entire life in a forest. The only other elf is having at go at me and telling me how much my people suck. The humans are all being racist and telling me I'm an imposter. All this gave me ways my character could react, and reasons to care for her. Whilst my origin character just decided she was gonna go save Feralden, because....? I've got no idea!

 

Not sure what you mean about the endings. Both games ended with you killing the big bad, and then a slideshow. Nothing really affected that. I guess in Origins, you could also have a baby?  Characters didn't seem important in either game. Remove Wynne, or Oghren, or Zevran and nothing changes. Only people you need in that game are Morrigan and Alistair.

 

Again, just my opinions! :) They are both good games for me.


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#277
nikki-tikki

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Why is it that Origins (being alot older and smaller) had the compacity to have 6 totally different beginnings, but Inquisition (being a 60gb game) can't have alternate endings?

 

I understand that the way the game works requires alot of extra stuff...but why, as the Inquisitor, the Herald of Andraste, the one who can open and close rifts into the Fade at will, can't we decide anything?? I loved playing this game and I am unhealthily and emotionally invested in the franchise as a whole...please listen to your fans :(


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#278
TheOgre

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 can see why people don't like not having an Origin, but I think I lucked out in choosing to play as an Elf. There's a lot of interesting things at the start for an Elf. I'm an apostate in chains by the Chantry - there's pretty much a Dalish worst nightmare. I'm the chosen one for a religion I don't believe in - how are my people gonna react to THAT one?. I'm adapting to human living conditions after spending my entire life in a forest. The only other elf is having at go at me and telling me how much my people suck. The humans are all being racist and telling me I'm an imposter. All this gave me ways my character could react, and reasons to care for her. Whilst my origin character just decided she was gonna go save Feralden, because....? I've got no idea!

 

First i'd like to say, good roleplay or a good self made story is good in the absence of another. I suppose I just wasn't fortunate enough with my choices (qunari male 1st pt, and human male 2nd pt). It was mostly how you had characters come up from your past that captivated me, like Jowen from the mage tower or that Lord Howe (i think that was his name). With that said, it seemed to me that the most intricate story could be gained through the elf female story line, with Solas. It was the most engaging and actually had a bittersweet end that has chance for more to look forward to in the DLC. 

 

But, I wanted to argue, that in every situation you were literally forced to become a grey warden because of your origin. Exiled, cursed, or.. have you anything. Maybe we see it differently and perhaps, but your choices were far more reaching in origins based on your companions. If you had Loghain live, slim chance had you that he would stay with your party, yet you needed him for the dark ritual to succeed for example. If you wanted your hero to live, you needed the ritual, if you wanted your friend, or loghain to take the archdemons soul, well, there have you. Very limited ways on how to 'end' the game for corypheous.. The only thing I can say about inquisition are they did have more diverse characters and that is what makes a game enjoyable, for me. But I wanted to care about my inquisitor, and I sadly did not while I cared about both Hawke, and my hero of ferelden as it seemed tragedy or misfortune hit them harder, and of the options for Inquisitor in this game, female elf has a potential to be at Hawke's level of deep. 


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#279
Abyss108

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First i'd like to say, good roleplay or a good self made story is good in the absence of another. I suppose I just wasn't fortunate enough with my choices (qunari male 1st pt, and human male 2nd pt). It was mostly how you had characters come up from your past that captivated me, like Jowen from the mage tower or that Lord Howe (i think that was his name). With that said, it seemed to me that the most intricate story could be gained through the elf female story line, with Solas. It was the most engaging and actually had a bittersweet end that has chance for more to look forward to in the DLC. 

 

But, I wanted to argue, that in every situation you were literally forced to become a grey warden because of your origin. Exiled, cursed, or.. have you anything. Maybe we see it differently and perhaps, but your choices were far more reaching in origins based on your companions. If you had Loghain live, slim chance had you that he would stay with your party, yet you needed him for the dark ritual to succeed for example. If you wanted your hero to live, you needed the ritual, if you wanted your friend, or loghain to take the archdemons soul, well, there have you. Very limited ways on how to 'end' the game for corypheous.. The only thing I can say about inquisition are they did have more diverse characters and that is what makes a game enjoyable, for me. But I wanted to care about my inquisitor, and I sadly did not while I cared about both Hawke, and my hero of ferelden as it seemed tragedy or misfortune hit them harder, and of the options for Inquisitor in this game, female elf has a potential to be at Hawke's level of deep. 

 

Yeah, I think I really lucked out in my choices. I always play a human mage in these games, and only made an Elf because I had heard the Solas romance was only for Elves because "plot reasons". I don't even usually play the romances (only other one I liked was Garrus), but I hate missing plot stuff, so I decided to take a chance on playing an Elf. I didn't even like Elves before I played this game! (not just DA elves, elves in general!)

 

It seems the other races aren't as involved in the plot, so I can definitely see why that would give a worse experience.

 

You're forced to become a Grey Warden (I'm fine with that part), but there's nothing keeping you there when they all die the night after you join. Duncan only saves you because he needs more men (you can believe he also cares, but the game doesn't give you enough time to build any faith in him). He then forces you to drink blood, and kills another guy for not doing so right in front of you. I had no reason to be loyal to them, no reason to want to risk my life. I had no reason to care about Feralden at that point. 

 

The choices you mentioned are all just one choice of whether to have the baby or not/who was going to do it. Which I do think was very well done! Better than Inquisition, which didn't have any choice at the end! But apart from that, I don't think Origins did choices better than Inquisition. In both, you pick various sides throughout the game, and then you see a few people from that side towards the end, and then you get some slides at the end telling you which you picked. Nothing really mattered in a big way.

 

I really like the idea behind Hawke, and did get quite attached to her (before killing her...). Despite how much I hate the game, Hawke herself is one of my favourite role-played protagonists! 



#280
Benman1964

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"Bioware, Origins is still your best game. Why can't you do it again?"

Because it's EA now? :mellow:


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#281
Rawgrim

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Didn't need to kill the army for that to happen. And people didn't flock to his side afterwards, even before you turned up people were turning against him. People would have been a lot more likely to be on his side if he hadn't ran away from Ostagar looking like a coward.

 

 

I didn't have any cutscene bugs in my game... I've heard they exist for some people, but I've got about 300 hours on the game, and not had a single problem here. Not saying they don't exist, but I can't really comment on something I've never had happen...  It didn't feel lazy to me anyway, because I don't see the point of having the camera change. In a big important scene, sure, but when random NPC #183 asks me to deliver some flowers? There's nothing I really want to see there.

 

Tactical camera sucked. 100% agree on this. Spells weren't useless for me... I was using the fire wall spells to block enemies, and the lightning ones to keep them contained or to paralyse them when they got too close. Fade spells to draw them to the same location, so I could bombard them with smaller AoE spells. etc, etc. I haven't tried Reaver, I always play mage teams. The other classes don't really interest me.

 

I can see why people don't like not having an Origin, but I think I lucked out in choosing to play as an Elf. There's a lot of interesting things at the start for an Elf. I'm an apostate in chains by the Chantry - there's pretty much a Dalish worst nightmare. I'm the chosen one for a religion I don't believe in - how are my people gonna react to THAT one?. I'm adapting to human living conditions after spending my entire life in a forest. The only other elf is having at go at me and telling me how much my people suck. The humans are all being racist and telling me I'm an imposter. All this gave me ways my character could react, and reasons to care for her. Whilst my origin character just decided she was gonna go save Feralden, because....? I've got no idea!

 

Not sure what you mean about the endings. Both games ended with you killing the big bad, and then a slideshow. Nothing really affected that. I guess in Origins, you could also have a baby?  Characters didn't seem important in either game. Remove Wynne, or Oghren, or Zevran and nothing changes. Only people you need in that game are Morrigan and Alistair.

 

Again, just my opinions! :) They are both good games for me.

 

 

Just.....try playing the game again. And focus on the timeline. From when Loghain learns this and that, til he does action A, and what his motivation is.

 

You have gotten some chinks of it all wrong.



#282
Abyss108

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Just.....try playing the game again. And focus on the timeline. From when Loghain learns this and that, til he does action A, and what his motivation is.

 

You have gotten some chinks of it all wrong.

 

Can you explain what I've gotten wrong? I'm not going to replay an entire game I don't find fun when I don't think I've gotten anything wrong, and the Wiki isn't telling me anything.

 

The point is Loghain murdered the entire army when Feralden needed them, instead of trying to take down the one man he cared about. It wasn't needed, it wasn't justified, it isn't defendable. If it was the only way to take Cailan out, sure, it would be a lot more grey, but he didn't even try another way. I'm OK with characters doing who do awful things to achieve their goals, but not when it's their first action.



#283
Rawgrim

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Can you explain what I've gotten wrong? I'm not going to replay an entire game I don't find fun when I don't think I've gotten anything wrong, and the Wiki isn't telling me anything.

 

The point is Loghain murdered the entire army when Feralden needed them, instead of trying to take down the one man he cared about. It wasn't needed, it wasn't justified, it isn't defendable. If it was the only way to take Cailan out, sure, it would be a lot more grey, but he didn't even try another way. I'm OK with characters doing who do awful things to achieve their goals, but not when it's their first action.

 

He had only just figured out he would take Cailan out. Right before the battle. He learned Cailan had allied with Orlais. That was what set him off. They head to battle right after that. No time to poison him or whatever else. And why would Loghain even have poison with him?

 

Loghain believed he saved them. From Orlais. From his point of view it was very much needed. Given the character's background, it was both justifiable and defendable. The whole idea was to keep Orlais out of Ferelden. Read the first DA book. It fleshes that bit out quite a bit..



#284
Abyss108

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He had only just figured out he would take Cailan out. Right before the battle. He learned Cailan had allied with Orlais. That was what set him off. They head to battle right after that. No time to poison him or whatever else. And why would Loghain even have poison with him?

 

Loghain believed he saved them. From Orlais. From his point of view it was very much needed. Given the character's background, it was both justifiable and defendable. The whole idea was to keep Orlais out of Ferelden. Read the first DA book. It fleshes that bit out quite a bit..

 

Yes, that exactly what I thought happened. It doesn't matter that he only found out right before the battle. It takes more than a day to agree to an alliance and march an army from Orlais. He could have tried to reason with Cailan for more than 10 minutes, he could have killed him personally during the battle and blamed it on the darkspawn, he could have arranged a private meeting with Calian (he was trusted), killed him, and blamed it on an assassin. But his very first reaction was to murder several thousand innocent people.

 

And I shouldn't have to read a book to find out information that I need to know in game...

 

Out of all the characters in the DA series, Loghain is the most unsympathetic to me. 



#285
brad2240

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The choices you mentioned are all just one choice of whether to have the baby or not/who was going to do it. Which I do think was very well done! Better than Inquisition, which didn't have any choice at the end! But apart from that, I don't think Origins did choices better than Inquisition. In both, you pick various sides throughout the game, and then you see a few people from that side towards the end, and then you get some slides at the end telling you which you picked. Nothing really mattered in a big way.

 

 

To be fair, Origins gave you a major decision in each part of the main quest line, some of which had a tangible effect on the final battle. At least three of your decisions throughout the game can result in party members leaving or dying. Furthermore, your choices actually determine the ultimate fate of your Warden.

 

The most major decision you make in Inquisition is mages or Templars. That determines which of two quests you'll play and makes the faction you didn't choose into Corypheus's slaves. Your companions seem mostly unaffected by your decisions throughout, except for some throwaway dialogue. And the game ends the same regardless.

 

I have to give Origins the advantage in the meaningful choice department.



#286
Rawgrim

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Yes, that exactly what I thought happened. It doesn't matter that he only found out right before the battle. It takes more than a day to agree to an alliance and march an army from Orlais. He could have tried to reason with Cailan for more than 10 minutes, he could have killed him personally during the battle and blamed it on the darkspawn, he could have arranged a private meeting with Calian (he was trusted), killed him, and blamed it on an assassin. But his very first reaction was to murder several thousand innocent people.

 

And I shouldn't have to read a book to find out information that I need to know in game...

 

Out of all the characters in the DA series, Loghain is the most unsympathetic to me. 

 

 

I agree, you shouldn't have to read the book. I reccomend it though. It was pretty good.



#287
Biotic Flash Kick

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"Bioware, Origins is still your best game. Why can't you do it again?"

Because it's EA now? :mellow:

check post 6

 

i said that long ago 



#288
brad2240

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Yes, that exactly what I thought happened. It doesn't matter that he only found out right before the battle. It takes more than a day to agree to an alliance and march an army from Orlais. He could have tried to reason with Cailan for more than 10 minutes, he could have killed him personally during the battle and blamed it on the darkspawn, he could have arranged a private meeting with Calian (he was trusted), killed him, and blamed it on an assassin. But his very first reaction was to murder several thousand innocent people.

 

And I shouldn't have to read a book to find out information that I need to know in game...

 

Out of all the characters in the DA series, Loghain is the most unsympathetic to me. 

 

I haven't read any of the books but my take on it is that Loghain also needed a rallying point, a disaster that the people of Ferelden would have to recover from and in which they would look to him to lead them through. The defeat at Ostagar was that. Further, it makes the King look foolish and the Wardens look like failures. By comparison, he himself looks more the hero for not wasting even more lives in a "losing" battle.

 

And yes, it's horrible, Its supposed to be. It also fits the character, who sees himself as a true patriot trying to save his homeland, perfectly. He's one of the more complex and believable villains in any of the BW games I've played.


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#289
Shechinah

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Man, I love entering a thread and finding it on a completely different topic. Don't know why, just always makes me chuckle. Not surprised it was about Loghain, though.

 

It usually follows like this:

Origins = Loghain

DA2 = Anders


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#290
Rawgrim

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I think several of the people who made DA:O, are now working on Pillars of Eternity. So that is kind of what the OP is asking for. The people who did DA:O making a new rpg.


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#291
DarkKnightHolmes

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Classic Loghain, just mentioning his name in any Dragon Age thread will make him the center of attention again. 6 years later and Loghain debates are still strong as ever!


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#292
katokires

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I'm anxiously waiting Pillars (played early versions, don't even know if beta or alpha)


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#293
BlueLynx

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personally, I didn't like origins, the story, characters.. everything just uninterested me, inquisition is the reason my love for DA has returned, hell, I liked DA:2 better compared to DA:O

 

also, I love the new combat in the new games



#294
SiIencE

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For me Dragon Age Origins is also my favorite and best game i've played, i also played DA2 and so far finished 3 playthroughs in DAI. 

(Yes i also played ME1/2/3 and loved it but they stayed similar to their predecessors)

 

DAI feels less epic then DAO for some reason, i think it's because DAO has 1 'Large enemy army with a leader' instead of 'remnants and 1 baddy' Also in DAO you start with nothing but a few papers and build your way from there where in DAI you already got an 'army' and '3 little helpers' and a 'War table' and a 'village->castle' which you got for 'free', it would've been nicer if you had to fight to get Skyhold. (And also fully repair the bugger).

 

For me it also feels like a bit weird, in DAO you went 1 way (Redcliffe/Temple/Dalish->Denerim) and finished that to go on to the next bit where in DAI there's to much freedom a lot of people cleared the whole world already before even heading to Winter Palace (happened to me also 1st playthrough) I was lvl 18 before i even set foot in the palace i had tons of 'power points' and all i ended doing was going back to 1 place or another to finish 1 thing because it unlocked after doing the palace or some companion quest. I thought that after doing that a whole new part of the world would 'unlock' (as in not visible prior to going to the Palace) When you end up waiting for war table missions to finish because they take 20+ hours (and get cancelled once you finish the game -> no result/reward) it's just a matter of following up the last few main bits of the story and some random chats with your companions who act like it's the end of the world already.

 

I also feel that a lot of war table missions should be done by 'the inquisitor' himself instead of 'send someone to take care of it', sure gathering herbs/leather/metal/resources can be handled by minions but for having a 'large army' it sure doesn't feel like it.

 

Where DAO was 'just right' for me, DA2 was way to cramped/small and felt insignificant and now DAI feels 'stretched' and well kinda dull.

 

I do like DAI don't get me wrong, but some of it i don't, i loved the long story line you had to go through to complete and then onto the next part, wish they had did the same but like unlock the 'world around it' instead of making it 'go rift->camp->quest->landmark->region->walk around some more to gather xyz' It's not a MMO.

 

I really hope the DLC will add some more story instead of wide open spaces, and why in all that's holy can't you revisit old places.... I'd love to see Redcliffe castle/Denerim or even the place where you fought the Darkspawn in DAO and did they brick up the damn deeproads? None of the places even feel familiar.

 

And the interface... why can't i sort crafting mats? Weapons/items when i'm selling crafting? that's just a bad choice.

And that damn 'fog' wtf... it's annoying and looks ugly.

 

 

This isn't a rant or anything just my opinion on DAI.



#295
Frond

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I'm going to have to disagree with you on both points here.

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn is the best Bioware game.

And Inquisition is at least as good as Origins.

#296
Saphiron123

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Man dragon age origins is cinematic compared to inquisition. The prologue has more cut scenes than 5 hours of inquisition.

Tons of dialogue, towns, cities, people. Enemies who are actual npcs with different armor and spells and faces rather then copied mobs.

In some ways inquisition is a step back, and I hope they remember what makes dragon age so special in the dlc and next in the series.

We don't need a hinterlands that is so loaded with uninteresting fetch quests that the dev has to tweet about leaving so people don't quit the game. We need story.

I almost quit. That sucks for a dragon age game.

#297
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I felt like they tried to make too many people happy and we lost the medieval feel of the first and the humor of the second.  Bioware set out to make a game that was progressive, inclusive, and modern with old world costumes.  That's why it feels different.

 

Origins was medieval in every costume and attitude.  DA2 was like you'd moved up to the 1600's even though it occurred during the same period.  Now we're in the 1800's pretty much in style except we're in the 20th century in attitudes and direction.

 

I remember when Sten asked me how I could be a warrior as a female, that it didn't make sense. I had to argue with him.  In the Wardens Alastair tells you that the wardens need more women.  It's all changed up now and its only 10 years later.

 

Now Iron Bull tells people you can be a female you just aren't called a female.  I had no sense of overcoming obstacles of "female-dom" and that kind of was a let down.  Also, there are an equal number of women warriors to men--again, I know why they're doing it, but you feel out of time and less special rather than appreciated and equal.

 

Part of the challenge for me was overcoming things as a female in Origins.

 

It feels like a game that tries to please everyone and loses its way.  There are other ways of being inclusive within a time period than making a female inquisitor dress like the Prince from Cinderella.


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#298
DragonAddict

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DAO is way better than DA2 and DAI. No contest.

 

- The quality of plots, storyline, quests,

- isometric view for the PC,

- you have a campsite and storage chest.......

- pet,

- can chat with party characters whenever you want,

- can buy gifts for romance and give them to any party character whenever you want, etc, etc, etc,

- not a hack and slash game,

- not dumbed down skills trees and inventory system, etc, etc, etc,

- can't change armor, weapons and items on the fly with all party characters......really?!

- eat food not just look at it

- sit down in a chair and chat...

 

 

Some users like the more simplified, dumbed down, hack ahd slash rpg's and some would rather have it more complex, not dumbed down and definitely not hack and slash.

 

If I would of bought a console and played DA2 and DAI, I probably would post, DA2 and DAI are the best rpg's I've ever played because they're desinged for consoles and not the PC.

 

All of this should of been in DAI at launch and same with DA2, but it wasn't, DA2 and DAI are not just as good as Origins, only better static eye candy and cut scenes.

 

DAO was not politically correct and did have a healthy balance of straight, gay and bi characters to chose from and romance but it wasn't over the top like DAI is......last time I checked, DA series was medieval and not modern present day.



#299
Jeffry

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DAO is way better than DA2 and DAI. No contest.

 

While you are correct that the game overall is better than its sequels, it is worth pointing out, that DAO is not best in all aspects. DA2 improved some things - combat and balance, main protagonist and storytelling for example (not judging the story itself, I liked it, but it is a matter of personal preferences).

 

And regarding your list, I would like to adress few things specifically:

- DAO indeed has a storage chest, but only as a mod for PC users (though made by a BioWare employee to show what the toolset can do) or as a part of a PAID day one DLC. DA2 had a storage chest in the basic game.

- Only DAI is hack and slash -ish. DA2 is not and in fact it is a more challenging game than DAO on nightmare difficulty (not saying any of those games are particularly hard once you get the hang of it, but DAO got really easy way too sooner because of botched balance).

- And about the skill trees, there even aren't any skill trees in DAO to speak of. Besides, you often had to take those first crappy skills just to get to the really useful ones at the end of the line. It was cool you had tens of skills at your disposal, but at least half of them (depending on class) was useless. Imo this was again done best in DA2.



#300
Jeffry

Jeffry
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Just give us a toolset next time BioWare. Look at how Bethesda does it since forever, they release a buggy as hell game, which is somewhat good-ish in its vanilla state, but far from perfect. Give the community some time, they'll do your work for you and change your ok game into an awesome one (or change a really good game like DAO into something awesome). I can't say it is an ideal approach, it certainly is not and it sucks for console players. Though it for sure beats releasing an ok game, which will never be great and will slowly fade into oblivion, since developers don't usually change core features of the game post-release (unpopular among players as they might be).