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David Gaider you left me no choice..... Cremisius Aclassi (Spoiler)


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#51
Syre297

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No you're wrong. We all have DNA patterns that gives us our ID. It is what makes us.... you know... us?

 

My logic is purely scientific. If you want to read more go to http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/chromosome/Y

 

The solider that had his genitalia blown off in war would still have male DNA.

Again, that's the same as stating that the genitalia one is born with determines one's gender. Trans people who undergo reassignment surgery do not alter their DNA.  



#52
9TailsFox

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My opinions on Krem.

 

1)I don't understand why Qunari accept transgender in the first place. Qunari have best brainwashing program in Thedas, they say you are chikin you are if not they make you. On the other hand it's irrelevant who you think you are. Qunari breading program we take this and this and make a baby, it's irrelevant if you like it or not.

2)Yes at first I was why he sound like a women, I see because she is women, and this is it, maybe I just don't care about this. So whatever.

3)If Dorian father can use blood magic to ungay Dorian.(Really? You can use blood magic for everything. summon demon and ask for cake :lol: ) We can use it to make Krem women, if she wanted I would help, we can use some evil prisoners of Inquisition.


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#53
Drasanil

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My teachers taught me that you are who you feel you are. If you act like the person you feel you are.

 

So if you act like christians do, including morals - you're christian. Maybe even more christian than the ones that attend the church each Sunday.

If you act like a man - hardy, honest, masculine, fair-minded - you are a man. ****** just doesn't count.

 

You know that would be great, if the entirety of reality weren't an actual thing. I don't suppose they also taught you how to fly using the power of belief and Tinkerbell's fairy dust while they were at it?


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#54
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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3)If Dorian father can use blood magic to ungay Dorian.(Really? You can use blood magic for everything. summon demon and ask for cake :lol: ) We can use it to make Krem women, if she wanted I would help, we can use some evil prisoners of Inquisition.

Point of order: Do we know whether the spell Dorian's father wanted to use on him would have worked?

 

Also, even if we know it would have there's probably a world of difference between rewriting someone's mind (which we know is possible in this setting for all that I'm not sure permanently changing someone's sexual tastes is) and rewriting their body (which I don't know that mere blood mages can do.)


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#55
Hanako Ikezawa

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Point of order: Do we know whether the spell Dorian's father wanted to use on him would have worked?

 

Also, there's a world of difference between rewriting someone's mind and rewriting their body.

Mind control and brainwashing via blood magic has been shown to work many times in the series. We just have to look at the Grey Warden mages or the former Circle mages if you side with the Templars to see that. 



#56
Lord Raijin

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Sorry for the double post but if that is what you believe then how would surgery overcome that?

 

You can't have it both ways

 

I'm not a scientist (I might be wrong) but Hormone replacement therapy can alter your DNA pattern. Those (transmen) who are taking Hormone replacement therapy for a long time can develop the same health risk of a bio male. (Heart disease,etc) I recently watched a video on youtube where a doctor actually confirmed this.



#57
SunburnedPenguin

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Spoiler

1:59

 

'You don't have a problem with him being from Tevinter?'

 

There should be an option to ask 'You don't have a problem with her being from Tevinter?'

This is what I mean, intrusive and forced agenda. Unnecessary.

 

 

No I'm not a transgender, but I do have friends who are. I proudly give them their proper pronouns :) I'm so happy for them. I just wish that I could be with them during their surgeries. Love the before and after photos.

 

You are naive at best.

 

It is not for you to decide how a person should or should not be addressed, but the person you are addressing. Are your 'friends' ok with you refusing to acknowledge their true identity?

 

How dare you assume it is down to you to decide a persons gender.


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#58
Xhaiden

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Biologically speaking, we ALL started as female.

 

mind_blown.gif


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#59
Syre297

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I'm not a scientist (I might be wrong) but Hormone replacement therapy can alter your DNA pattern. Those (transmen) who are taking Hormone replacement therapy for a long time can develop the same health risk of a bio male. (Heart disease,etc) I recently watched a video on youtube where a doctor actually confirmed this.

So you're saying that if a female takes enough testosterone, a Y chromosome will just pop into her DNA? I'm no scientist either, but I'm not certain that's how it works. 



#60
10K

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3)If Dorian father can use blood magic to ungay Dorian.(Really? You can use blood magic for everything. summon demon and ask for cake :lol: ) We can use it to make Krem women, if she wanted I would help, we can use some evil prisoners of Inquisition.

You obviously wasn't paying attention. Sure he says his father wanted to use blood magic to "cure" him of his attraction to men. But there was no knowledge on the how, or the consequences involved. For all Dorian knew he would have been left in a vegetative state if his father actually went through with this magic. Which is another reason why he left his family. Blood magic isn't a simple snap of the fingers and everything is dandy. There are actual consequences, especially for more potent spells. So I don't blame Krem for making his decision in not seeking out magic that could possibly give him the body of a man. Because just as in real life, so many things could in fact go wrong and that can be scary.   


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#61
9TailsFox

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Point of order: Do we know whether the spell Dorian's father wanted to use on him would have worked?

 

Also, even if we know it would have there's probably a world of difference between rewriting someone's mind (which we know is possible in this setting for all that I'm not sure permanently changing someone's sexual tastes is) and rewriting their body (which I don't know that mere blood mages can do.)

I not sure I can be wrong but if I remember correctly Dorian find out what his father wanted to do.

Like I said Qunari don't even need magic to change your mind they use drugs and some brainwashing program. and rewriting their body I think if you can put soul into golem. Bring people from the dead, even time travel, really Bioware time travel? :angry: I think you can find something/magic to change your body.



#62
Syre297

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You are naive at best.

 

It is not for you to decide how a person should or should not be addressed, but the person you are addressing. Are your 'friends' ok with you refusing to acknowledge their true identity?

 

How dare you assume it is down to you to decide a persons gender.

Thank you for saying that! 



#63
Lord Raijin

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So you're saying that if a female takes enough testosterone, a Y chromosome will just pop into her DNA? I'm no scientist either, but I'm not certain that's how it works. 

Could it be possible to have a gene mutation by taking enough testosterone? I honestly don't know.



#64
9TailsFox

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You obviously wasn't paying attention. Sure he says his father wanted to use blood magic to "cure" him of his attraction to men. But there was no knowledge on the how, or the consequences involved. For all Dorian knew he would have been left in a vegetative state if his father actually went through with this magic. Which is another reason why he left his family. Blood magic isn't a simple snap of the fingers and everything is dandy. There are actual consequences, especially for more potent spells. So I don't blame Krem for making his decision in not seeking out magic that could possibly give him the body of a man. Because just as in real life, so many things could in fact go wrong and that can be scary.   

I agree. Tevinter magistres used blood magic enter the fade physically, it worked perfectly :lol:  Oh wait darkspawn.



#65
Hanako Ikezawa

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Biologically speaking, we ALL started as female.

 

mind_blown.gif

Well if you want to get really technically then biologically speaking we all started as sexless. Just a tiny one-celled organism riding in our mommy's tummy. Then we became a hermaphrodite which was currently set to female and after that we either stay that way and commit to female or change to a male and commit to that or sometimes decide both is good and commit to that. ^_^



#66
Shechinah

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I'm curious, if a person has a set of both male and female genitalia, do they have a right to choose or do we make up an entire new gender pronoun for them?

 

(9TailsFox) Someone posted an interested thought on the Qun and the whole gender-related thing. I'm not sure I can properly convey it but the gist of it was that someone born female could be assigned to a typically male role such as a fighter but they would no longer be considered female because it was a male role. Sten took issue with a female Warden because they still saw themselves as female despite their combative role. Since the Qun places a heavy emphasis on merit, it could make more sense of it.

 

The gender-change-through-magic thing is a bit iffy as the best case scenario I can see is a glamor spell and the worst case scenario is snatching someone else's body by putting your conciousness into it.

 

I'll admit I haven't gotten around to reading the comics yet but Maevaris Tilani was a Magister who lived in Tevinter but she still had a male body so I'm assuming it is not yet possible to alter your body with magic or she chose not to for a variety of reason such as it crossing a line or simply not wishing to go that way. Didn't make her less of a kickass woman from what I heard.



#67
Riverdaleswhiteflash

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I not sure I can be wrong but if I remember correctly Dorian find out what his father wanted to do.

Like I said Qunari don't even need magic to change your mind they use drugs and some brainwashing program. and rewriting their body I think if you can put soul into golem. Bring people from the dead, even time travel, really Bioware time travel? :angry: I think you can find something/magic to change your body.

None of these necessarily imply completely rebuilding someone's genitals at the cellular level to be possible, though. Also, I don't think that last one is possible unless the Breach is open at both the departure and arrival points, since as I understand it time travel requires you to basically completely flip off objective reality. (Although that objective reality can take rain checks while the Breach is open might mean that something like this is possible. Still, it involves the Breach, which I believe is canonically closed.)


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#68
Syre297

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Besides all of the real life arguments here, this is a game set in a fantasy world. If the writers decided this is they way that they wanted to represent a single instance and viewpoint of a single character who identifies themselves as he despite being born with female genitalia, that is he prerogative of the writer and should in no way be taken as gospel or scientific truth as it relates to every person in the real world who may have something in common with that made up character in that made up world.  

 

Also, for all we know, Krem might not even have sexual interests. So who cares if Krem has the right parts down below if that's how HE views HIMSELF? 



#69
phantomrachie

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I'm not a scientist (I might be wrong) but Hormone replacement therapy can alter your DNA pattern. Those (transmen) who are taking Hormone replacement therapy for a long time can develop the same health risk of a bio male. (Heart disease,etc) I recently watched a video on youtube where a doctor actually confirmed this.

 

You are wrong.

 

Taking hormones doesn't alter your chromosomes, it alters the level of that hormone in your body which leads to it triggering genes in your body in different ways. 

 

For example, trans men who take testosterone or women with high levels of testosterone can grown facial hair . Their genes haven't be altered but the increased level of testosterone makes the genes they have act in different ways.  

 

That YouTube video was 100% wrong 


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#70
Lord Raijin

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You are naive at best.

 

It is not for you to decide how a person should or should not be addressed, but the person you are addressing. Are your 'friends' ok with you refusing to acknowledge their true identity?

 

How dare you assume it is down to you to decide a persons gender.

 

I never said that I was refusing to acknbowledge my friends true identity. If you read my post I said that I reference them by their proper pronouns. :) When I see photos of my friends I see them as a man, and so I address them as it.

 

And if you were even listening to a word I said... It is not down to me to decide a persons gender.. It is the law of science. I'm not a god I am a human ;)



#71
9TailsFox

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Spoiler

1:59

 

'You don't have a problem with him being from Tevinter?'

 

There should be an option to ask 'You don't have a problem with her being from Tevinter?'

This is what I mean, intrusive and forced agenda. Unnecessary.

I agree on this you can debate as much as you want but Krem is transgender just for the sake of being transgeder, why should I care what you think you are and what you **** I only don't like Tevinter, Qunary, Chantry.

I think Sera was done best she is Lesbian no one cares.



#72
Guest_TrillClinton_*

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Krem does not deserve the right to be labeled as a male, nor should be viewed as one in a biological point of view. She is a woman who suffers from gender identify disorder. She is a tomboy on steroids what boils down to.

 

 

 

Ahhh it's a lord Rajin thread. It is simply masquerading as a real thread but on steroids.


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#73
Syre297

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I'm curious, if a person has a set of both male and female genitalia, do they have a right to choose or do we make up an entire new gender pronoun for them?

There are some cultures that do have alternative pronouns for people born with both sets of genitalia (or even people who are transgendered in some cultures) and may call them a 'third gender'. Often in these cultures these people of third genders are venerated and celebrated. It's more a western/ Christian culture thing to look at trans and herm people with distaste.  



#74
Shechinah

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(to Syre297) I knew that ;) It is quite a fascinating read but then so is most culture studies to me.

I was wondering about OP's answer.

 

The language do need a gender-neutral  pronoun besides "it". I had such trouble writing an alien and genderless race to the point I had to make up some myself that I found around. Still a bit awkward to call it xie or xies.  



#75
Hanako Ikezawa

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There are some cultures that do have alternative pronouns for people born with both sets of genitalia (or even people who are transgendered in some cultures) and may call them a 'third gender'. Often in these cultures these people of third genders are venerated and celebrated. It's more a western/ Christian culture thing to look at trans and herm people with distaste.  

Not all Christian churches look at transsexuals and hermaphrodites with distaste. 


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