52 réponses à ce sujet

[Karlone123]

Going back to 2010 at least when I first read about Kai Leng, I was very excited to see a novel character transfer to the game. Kai Leng seemed like a genuine threat to be reckoned with, A worthwhile villain. But he came across as a shallow character with no real qualities in the game. A waste of resources.  And I am sorry of all the characters Troy Baker voiced, it was Kai Leng. General Petrovsky was far more interesting.

 

Aside from ME3 overall, I am rarely disappointed by Bioware and usually rally to Bioware's defence if any criticism was given against them but Kai Leng is a result of bad writing (I never hoped to use phrase).

[God]

Yeah, Leng's translation from text to game was a shoddy one. 

 

I think something to take away from this is that BioWare is staffed by humans too, and they make mistakes like the rest of you. Sometimes, they make big mistakes, have poor execution of concepts, or general bad ideas... again like the rest of you. Bad writing happens. Even at BioWare. 

 

Otherwise, I never really saw Leng as someone who'd be a 'real' villain. I always figured he be more of an agent who scuffles with Anderson in the ambiguous novels. He was a character from a side story who was forced to the forefront in an ill-thought plot by the writers' brashness.

[Shechinah]

Speaking as someone who had never experienced Kai Leng in anything else, I found him uninteresting because I'd never seen him before, never heard of him before and was given no bakstory to him beyond his scuffles with someone else and his association to Ceberus. The only real deal I had with him that made me have some semblence of emotion towards him was my annoyance with his plot armor and the fact that he was built up as a formidable opponent to Shepard yet he was never intimidating to me in combat - I was more concerned about the Phantoms in the fight against him than Kai Leng himself.

 

Also, hilariously enough, I missed the message he sent me after Thessia when I was reading the mail. I can just imaging him putting all his best taunts and attempts to get under Shepard's skin in his message and then Shepard deleting it alongside the bills.

 

If he had, had some prior history with Shepard in N7 or that he carried a grudge even unbeknowst to Shepard that might be something but otherwise, he is just not a very interesting villain even as a mook.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Yes... Taken Directly From Mass Effect Retribution, about Kai Leng:

 

The scene before him was a masterpiece of brutally efficient mayhem. In addition to the turian shot by the guards, two more were already on the floor. One’s throat had been slashed from behind, the cut so deep it nearly severed the head. The back of the other’s head had been blown off, the result of someone’s firing a pistol jammed against the back of his skull so the kinetic barriers couldn’t protect him. The remaining three were engaged in close-quarters fighting with Kai Leng. Despite not wearing a combat suit—he wasn’t even wearing a shirt—Cerberus’s top wet-work operative made short work of the heavily armored turians.

 

 

At melee range the heavy turian assault rifles proved to be a disadvantage; they were too slow andcumbersome to be brought to bear on a target as lithe and mobile as the human butcher attacking them. Kai Leng’s weapons presented no such problems. He stabbed his knife in an upward thrust toward the head of his nearest opponent. The sharply ascending angle brought it in beneath the turian’s protective visor, impaling him through the underside of his chin. The blade penetrated up through tissue and bone and into the brain, resulting in instantaneous death.

 

The weapon was stuck fast in its victim, but Kai Leng had already released his grip on the hilt. One of the turians had thrown down his own ineffectual weapon and grabbed Kai Leng’s wrist with both hands in an attempt to break his arm, or at least wrench the pistol from his grasp. But his combat suit made his movements clumsy and awkward, and the thick gloves prevented him from getting a proper grip. Kai Leng slipped free and dropped to the ground, his leg sweeping out to knock the turian off his feet even as his partner fired a round from his assault rifle at the space where his human target had been standing upright an instant before.

 

Crouched low to the floor, Kai Leng shoved the nose of the pistol against the back of the still standing turian’s knee. The joints of the combat suits were less protected to maintain flexibility; the thin mesh material did nothing to absorb the projectile when he squeezed the trigger. With a scream the turian fell to the floor, the assault rifle slipping from his grasp.

 

It had all taken less than a second

[dorktainian]

Kai Lame.  

 

Every time I think of him cartwheeling around i have a little chuckle.

[FaWa]

I think the problem is that Kai Lang is also a ridiculous character in the books. Take a bad character, mix it with a storyline thats getting progressively more absurd (Cerberus) and you get Thessia.

[Display Name Owner]

Yes... Taken Directly From Mass Effect Retribution, about Kai Leng:

 

The scene before him was a masterpiece of brutally efficient mayhem. In addition to the turian shot by the guards, two more were already on the floor. One’s throat had been slashed from behind, the cut so deep it nearly severed the head. The back of the other’s head had been blown off, the result of someone’s firing a pistol jammed against the back of his skull so the kinetic barriers couldn’t protect him. The remaining three were engaged in close-quarters fighting with Kai Leng. Despite not wearing a combat suit—he wasn’t even wearing a shirt—Cerberus’s top wet-work operative made short work of the heavily armored turians.

 

 

At melee range the heavy turian assault rifles proved to be a disadvantage; they were too slow andcumbersome to be brought to bear on a target as lithe and mobile as the human butcher attacking them. Kai Leng’s weapons presented no such problems. He stabbed his knife in an upward thrust toward the head of his nearest opponent. The sharply ascending angle brought it in beneath the turian’s protective visor, impaling him through the underside of his chin. The blade penetrated up through tissue and bone and into the brain, resulting in instantaneous death.

 

The weapon was stuck fast in its victim, but Kai Leng had already released his grip on the hilt. One of the turians had thrown down his own ineffectual weapon and grabbed Kai Leng’s wrist with both hands in an attempt to break his arm, or at least wrench the pistol from his grasp. But his combat suit made his movements clumsy and awkward, and the thick gloves prevented him from getting a proper grip. Kai Leng slipped free and dropped to the ground, his leg sweeping out to knock the turian off his feet even as his partner fired a round from his assault rifle at the space where his human target had been standing upright an instant before.

 

Crouched low to the floor, Kai Leng shoved the nose of the pistol against the back of the still standing turian’s knee. The joints of the combat suits were less protected to maintain flexibility; the thin mesh material did nothing to absorb the projectile when he squeezed the trigger. With a scream the turian fell to the floor, the assault rifle slipping from his grasp.

 

It had all taken less than a second

 

If I'm completely honest even this seems a little bit silly, partly because he's shirtless.

[Han Shot First]

Kai Leng ended up as Bioware's worst villain because he had a ridiculous Ninja Gaiden character model, had two underwhelming boss fights complete with anime-style acrobatics, and was given very little dialogue...and what dialogue he did get was awful and included some of the worst lines of the series.

 

Also, he brought a sword to a gunfight. In the 22nd Century. When people wear body armor capable of stopping or deflecting rounds travelling at supersonic velocities.

 

This is what happens when people bring swords to gunfights

[themikefest]

Kai Leng: SHUT UP

[God]

This is what happens when people bring swords to gunfights:

 

 

Static and error messages...

 

Not what I was expecting swords to do in gunfights, but I guess I see the logic in a weird way.

[Karlone123]

Kai Leng: SHUT UP

https://www.youtube....h?v=gxPF9AeHznE

[Vazgen]

Kai Leng was never meant to be a main villain. He was a mook, a pretty advanced one, but still a mook. TIM was the main villain, along with the Reapers, of course. Kai Leng was annoying and I genuinely wanted to kill him. Partly because of that mail, but also because of him killing Thane, who was written as the only squadmate who cared about Shepard after ME2. He wrote Shepard, watched over Ashley/Kaidan, warned about the Cerberus. Even his last words were about Shepard. So for me, "That was for Thane, you SOB!" line was just perfect. I felt the rage and desire to kill the guy. And, well, it's a success in writing a villain in my book.

[MrFob]

Kai Leng was never meant to be a main villain. He was a mook, a pretty advanced one, but still a mook. TIM was the main villain, along with the Reapers, of course. Kai Leng was annoying and I genuinely wanted to kill him. Partly because of that mail, but also because of him killing Thane, who was written as the only squadmate who cared about Shepard after ME2. He wrote Shepard, watched over Ashley/Kaidan, warned about the Cerberus. Even his last words were about Shepard. So for me, "That was for Thane, you SOB!" line was just perfect. I felt the rage and desire to kill the guy. And, well, it's a success in writing a villain in my book.

All true but that doesn't negate the fact that Leng's presence in the game was awful, especially when compared to his rather cool role in Redemption.

Usually BioWare is pretty good with characters. For example I really like Kahlee Sanders' appearance. So I don't know what went wrong with Kai Leng but one thing is for sure, something did go wrong.

[Vazgen]

All true but that doesn't negate the fact that Leng's presence in the game was awful, especially when compared to his rather cool role in Redemption.

Usually BioWare is pretty good with characters. For example I really like Kahlee Sanders' appearance. So I don't know what went wrong with Kai Leng but one thing is for sure, something did go wrong.

There is that too. My guess is that it's quite hard to make an agile and fast enemy (like Kai Leng in the book) but still allow the player to fight him as an equal, especially if the player can only dream of such agility and speed. If fights with Leng were much more challenging, there would've been less complaints about his character, I believe. 

There are a few factors that make you rightfully underestimate him. First, he's weak. 1-2 tech bursts and "I need to recharge". Second, he has only shields and health - protection layer combo present on the second weakest enemies in the game (Marauders and Centurions). You don't get a feeling that you're fighting a "boss" character, he seems as just a regular mook. Third, his AI. He usually goes for your squadmates, which is a sound tactic on the paper but irrelevant since 1) you can bring them back with medi-gel and 2) by the time you get to Thessia you can pretty much destroy everything without them. 

[themikefest]

Kai Leng is a punk. He is not an assassin. He's just another Cerberus trooper, except he carries a sword. His best bet is to not pretend to be something he's not and try out for the summer Olympics as a gymnast who likes to do cartwheels

[Qwib Qwib]

 

 

 

I think that's America in a nutshell. The flamethrower guy, I mean. ''RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA''

 

Bloody Germans introducing it in The Great War. Back then, everyone regarded it as monstrous, impractical and dangerous to the user. Then you know, the Yankees heard of it.

[Han Shot First]

I think that's America in a nutshell. The flamethrower guy, I mean. ''RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA''

 

Bloody Germans introducing it in The Great War. Back then, everyone regarded it as monstrous, impractical and dangerous to the user. Then you know, the Yankees heard of it.

 

No question that the flamethrower is a brutal and monstrous weapon. War produces lots of horrific ways to die, but being roasted to death by flamethrower has to be near the top. 

 

But it was far from being 'impractical.' The flamethrower in fact, in pure pragmatic terms is one of the best weapons for clearing out bunkers or underground fortifications. It is capable of killing people that bullets and shell fragments have a hard time getting to. Besides the obvious hazard from burning, it also often caused deaths by asphyxiation by consuming all the oxygen in a tunnel system. That is why it saw so much use in the Pacific theater of the Second World War.

 

Also the United States wasn't the only country to use them. British & Commonweath forces used flamethrowers as well, as did the Soviets. This picture below is of an Australian using one in the Pacific:

 

[Bakgrind]

 

 

So I guess in this case  when   fire burns it is at war huh ?  Sorry I couldn't resist. I'll show myself out now ...

[dgcatanisiri]

The game really dropped the ball with Kai Leng. The way I was expecting him to come across before playing it was to see Kai Leng serving almost as a dark reflection of Shepard, that he'd be a central antagonist because he's serving almost the same role for Cerberus that Shepard does with the Council/the Alliance. We might not fight the Illusive Man in person, but Kai Leng would act as his instrument, having ACTUAL interaction with Shepard to establish him as Shepard's dark mirror. But he just basically gets the role of a mook, a flunky. He has no characterization, and it's almost like his entire purpose in the game hinges on having the knowledge of him from his portrayal in Revelation/Deception, with none of that being translated into the game, because OF COURSE everyone would be familiar with him so it wouldn't be needed.

[MegaIllusiveMan]

Also because Thane, with his state (terminally ill) succeeded in stoping the assassination of the Salarian Councilor.... And because of Thessia....

I need to recharge, lol cereal killer and "Shut up", I no like you...

Plus, that stupid message after Thessia.... Are we really facing THE Kai Leng from the books, or even an Assassin???

[Display Name Owner]

Also because Thane, with his state (terminally ill) succeeded in stoping the assassination of the Salarian Councilor.... And because of Thessia....

I need to recharge, lol cereal killer and "Shut up", I no like you...

Plus, that stupid message after Thessia.... Are we really facing THE Kai Leng from the books, or even an Assassin???

 

Actually, as an assassin you have to wonder why TIM didn't fit Leng with a cloaking device like he did with Infiltrator Shep.

[dgcatanisiri]

Not sure if you remember from the books, but Anderson shattered both Leng's kneecaps, hence in ME3 he walks with a cane/sword. He wasn't going to be the same kind of tough guy you read about in the books. He's a lot weaker than he was.

 

Except it's a plot point that Cerberus forces are being implanted and augmented. Kai Leng might not have gotten the same implants that the huskified troops got, but he certainly could have gotten enough to be able to be at least on par with where he had been.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Except it's a plot point that Cerberus forces are being implanted and augmented. Kai Leng might not have gotten the same implants that the huskified troops got, but he certainly could have gotten enough to be able to be at least on par with where he had been.

 

He is carrying what has to be the shields for some kind of Cruiser. Leg implants seem much more blase than that kind of tech being carted around by a single dude.

[Han Shot First]

Whoever wrote Kai Leng should have watched the movie Collateral first. Now there was an assassin done right.