135 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

All side quests are technically "filler content"

 

It all just depends on how interesting that content is.

[RoboticWater]

If its not required, I don't have a problem with having filler content

I don't think it's possible to have filler content that is completely irrelevant. Any quest that gives a reward (no matter how menial) factors into balance. Whenever there's a resource to increase, balance is involved. If you've ever played a completionist run of Borderlands, you'll know that playing all the side missions breaks the game's progression. By the time you're ready to get back to main missions, you're already 3-4 levels over the level requirement. The same concept can apply to any game and any resource (XP, money, crafting supplies, etc.). Obviously, unbalance can be rectified, but that's just more time wasted on content that is, by definition, bad.

 

Even if nothing I've said thus far holds true, it's still bad form to knowingly devote resources to bad content. Either the devs are desperately trying to fill a world they foolishly made too large, or they're shamelessly trying to pad out the length of the game presumably for marketing purposes. Either way it reflects very poorly on the creators and shines a harsh spotlight directly at the seams of the game. If I'm reading a note telling me to kill 10 bears, I'm not experiencing a living and breathing world, I'm imagining a tired developer furiously typing away into a quest log before deadline rolls by.

 

Regardless, it's just clutter, bits of trash just waiting to be picked up and dealt with. It's like reading a book annotated with gibberish; at best it's just distracting and at worst, it's a pointless time sink. It's a waste of everyone's time one of those videogame tropes that should have died ages ago.

[DarthLaxian]

Absolutely.

In DAI, much of the "exploration" felt like crap we really shouldn't be wasting our time doing. It wasn't fun gameplay, and was better suited for minions, story wise. If properly executed in ME, though, it can be much better. Exploring space, as McFly describes above, is much more enjoyable for me than roaming an empty desert and picking weeds. The words "Space" and "Exploration" belong together.

The ME team could definitely screw this up and give us a bland, grind of a game. They are starting with a world better suited to this type of exploration, though, in my opinion. They likely will continue to have the engaging, exciting gameplay mechanics that DA lacks. This better supports those slower spots. They also have time to consider DAI's failings before repeating them.

 

Problem is:

 

They probably don't see these things as failings (!) - they don't even see what ME3 did wrong (It's a long list IMHO)...so yeah, I am afraid that ME-Next will be even worse than ME3, DA2 and even DA:I (note: DA:I is not that bad a game, but it's way worse than DA:O!)

 

greetings LAX

[RoboticWater]

All side quests are technically "filler content"

 

It all just depends on how interesting that content is.

That depends on how you define filler. IMO, content that is interesting is not filler.

 

While the "side" bit of "side quest" implies that a quest is a supplement to (or distraction from) the main goal, that does not mean the quest exists exclusively to fill out an empty landscape or time slot. Optimally, a side quest would hold up standing alone, providing its own interesting gameplay or story (preferably both) that ties in thematically or directly with the rest of the game or narrative respectively.

 

For example, ME1's rock collecting missions are entirely filler because they provide neither an interesting story nor compelling gameplay, whereas the Asari Consort mission isn't because it had a good story. This is the reason why I like ME2's missions. While they weren't plot-heavy, most tried mix up the gameplay in more interesting ways (not always successfully, but I can see that the devs actually put some effort into their work).

 

Filler, to me, implies little to no effort. All content fills, filler content only fills.

 

EDIT: I realize now that I basically said what you said, but longer; however, I think there should be a distinction between simply filler content and bad non-filler content. One is intentional bad form, the other is unfortunate.

Modifié par RoboticWater, 13 janvier 2015 - 06:27 .

[dreamgazer]

I'd definitely call saving a quarian from a pack of varren and escorting that damn broken mech to a mineral deposit "filler content".

[RoboticWater]

I'd definitely call saving a quarian from a pack of varren and escorting that damn broken mech to a mineral deposit "filler content".

I didn't say all the missions were successful, but at least that mission had some effort put into it. The devs needed to make the health bar work on friendly, passive targets and probably make a few edits to the varren AI and they had to be a little creative to make a mission that differed from the usual gameplay.

 

It might not have been fun, but there was craft that went into it. Fun is obviously the goal, but I'd prefer to get there through better practices. Fetch quests take a note and couple variables, that mission took a bit more, and that's the right direction.

[wolfhowwl]

Going by how Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age 3 handled "exploration," brace for filler.

[Mcfly616]

If it's anything resembling a better developed and diversified version of the ME1 side-quest template, bring it on. I can't wait for the 'filler' if that's the case.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I'd definitely call saving a quarian from a pack of varren and escorting that damn broken mech to a mineral deposit "filler content".

 

It depends on what you think filler is. That Quarian mission, at least to me, is pretty fun because it's a twist on the basic combat objectives that ends up being rewarding from a game play perspective (plus if you like Quarians I imagine getting the little guy to the shuttle is pretty satisfying). Filler I think is busy work the game makes you do which really has no 'reward' to it. I think the mech mission is filler. There's no story being delivered, there's practically zero combat, the visuals aren't all that inspiring, all you get is some kind of in game currency which can be collected elsewhere.

[SimonTheFrog]

I certainly hopw that DA and ME are considered to be different games.

 

They are for me. DA, for me, is a lot about that fantasy world and immersing into that world, it's lore and woes of the little folks.

ME, at least the (first) trilogy, is more about your hero and his interaction with a "realistic" sci-fi world.

 

It's a vague but signifant difference.

 

But it means, at least for me, that filler stuff is acceptable or even welcomed for DA because it makes the world come to life.

For ME it would break immersion because it just wouldn't make any sense to stop pursuing the bigger goal to gather some ores. There should be other people in the alliance more suitable for such jobs

[Vortex13]

Over the course of my DA:I play through, I came to almost dread opening up new areas to explore. As a completionist, I always had to ensure that all objectives in a particular region were dealt with; including the shards. After clearing Crestwood I started to find it harder and harder to enjoy the exploration aspect of the game; entering a new region became less about admiring the craftsmanship that went into designing the level, and more about banging out the shopping list of goals the game gave to me. By Empirse du Lion I was only vaguely aware of the sub plot happening within it; there are some Red Templars doing ….. something over there, oh and a fortress.

 

 

 

ME 1's exploration didn't have the handcrafted levels that DA:I had, but for some reason, I didn't mind driving the Mako around; well aside from trying to find the correct path to climb a mountain.   Maybe its because I generally prefer science fiction to fantasy, but the barren landscape of a hostile alien world, with a massive Red Giant star dominating the sky drew me in more than a valley with a castle at the end of it. I felt like a true pioneer; braving the deadly environment with lethal toxins or the vacuum of space mere centimeters from my face; and the desolate, barren landscape of the uncharted planets really drove home how big the universe was, and how small and frail we were compared to it. The amount of filler content between ME 1 and DA:I might have been the same, but space exploration is far more interesting than forest exploration (IMO). 

 

 

 

That being said, I do hope that BioWare will tone down the shopping list style of collection quests and meaningless 'go here' objectives and lets us explore the planet we're visiting.

[Ellanya]

 

...

ME 1's exploration didn't have the handcrafted levels that DA:I had, but for some reason, I didn't mind driving the Mako around; well aside from trying to find the correct path to climb a mountain.   Maybe its because I generally prefer science fiction to fantasy, but the barren landscape of a hostile alien world, with a massive Red Giant star dominating the sky drew me in more than a valley with a castle at the end of it. I felt like a true pioneer; braving the deadly environment with lethal toxins or the vacuum of space mere centimeters from my face; and the desolate, barren landscape of the uncharted planets really drove home how big the universe was, and how small and frail we were compared to it. The amount of filler content between ME 1 and DA:I might have been the same, but space exploration is far more interesting than forest exploration (IMO). 

...

 

 

OMG, Vortex13 !!!

+1000!!!

[L. Han]

Another issue I had with the filler content in DA:I is that the payoff is so barren.

 

At least in ME1/ME2 you had some dialogs, some choices, some interesting twists if it had one. You also had the option to handle it the way you want to handle it, like the Biotic terrorist mission where you can go in guns blazing and kill everyone. Or you can take some pain and make sure you don't hurt any hostages.

 

A lot of side quests also felt like it had some impact because someone important will call you up, like Hackett will call you up and complain or praise you after each favor you complete for him.

 

In short, Mass Effect does better at making you feeling like a special forces soldier than DA:I being a leader of an Inquisition.

[NM_Che56]

If its not required, I don't have a problem with having filler content

 

Same.  Also, "filler" is such a subjective concept. I enjoyed what is being called "filler" in DA:I.  To me, it was no more "filler-rific" than Skyrim; a quest system that was designed to be an infinite rabbit hole (i.e., Radiant Quests)

[Nitrocuban]

It's not about every little sidequest being a fully voiced epic story with mindbending twists and +9000 space magic as reward, but too much stuff like planet scanning, dog tag collecting or Reaper hide&seek feel almost like busy work and don't add to the fun of playing the game but take fun away from. The game feels longer, in an bad, tedious way, not in a positive "having a good time" way.

 

If Bioware really feels the need to add more playtime without much work, "recycling" the the MP maps in SP as "N7 missions" (like ME3 did) is ok.

But pretty please no more ME2ish planet scanning.

[NM_Che56]

All side quests are technically "filler content"

 

It all just depends on how interesting that content is.

 

And so long as I'm not forced to gorge on side quests, then that should help.

[Dr. Rush]

Yeah, not all filler content are sidequests. There are plenty of examples of main quests that are filler too. Filler refers to the blandness and forgettableness of content. 

It is a given that not every single mission will be the climax of the game, but missions can't drag on for too long, or feel so unsatisfying that they become filler. Even basic quests and missions have to give the player enough satisfaction to make their time investment worth it.

 

A big part of what makes content satisfying is pacing and open world games really struggle with pacing because of the inherent freedom the player has to go in any direction. 

 

I would say, its really all about finding a balance. I don't expect ME4 to have no filler at all, it just has to be used correctly, in the right places and in the right amounts, to keep the game fun and fresh and moving forward, so the game doesn't feel like it is become tedious or boring or bland. 

[Vespervin]

I enjoyed saving the quarian on that planet, then again I'm a huge fan of the quarians.

[Mcfly616]

I hope they've gotten rid of the whole segmented mission feel of the sequels. One of the main reasons it felt like a full blown shooter. Things flowed so much better in ME1. You land on Feros and you proceed through the colony naturally. Same with Noveria. The sequels were broken up into individual missions. And also broke immersion because of it. 

 

 

I hope the next game feels like one long adventure, without mission summaries on "mission complete" screens and "mission start" sequences.

[Vazgen]

I hope they've gotten rid of the whole segmented mission feel of the sequels. One of the main reasons it felt like a full blown shooter. Things flowed so much better in ME1. You land on Feros and you proceed through the colony naturally. Same with Noveria. The sequels were broken up into individual missions. And also broke immersion because of it. 

 

 

I hope the next game feels like one long adventure, without mission summaries on "mission complete" screens and "mission start" sequences.

Not sure what you mean. ME1 had the exact same segmented mission feel. The only difference is that there were fewer missions (4) and they were longer. 

I like the mission start sequences in ME2-3 because it gives the idea of preparing for combat encounter. I would've even liked to have armor customization screen available too. Such system is useless for ME1 because you can change everything in the field

[dreamgazer]

I enjoyed saving the quarian on that planet, then again I'm a huge fan of the quarians.

 

I like the quarians, and I still find the varren horde defense to be hollow "filler content".

[Vazgen]

I enjoyed saving the quarian on that planet, then again I'm a huge fan of the quarians.

It's one of my favorite missions because of the ties to Mass Effect: Ascension. 

[Mcfly616]

Not sure what you mean. ME1 had the exact same segmented mission feel. 

No. Not really. In ME3, when you select a location on the mini map, you are knowingly starting an individual mission. In ME2 they break the 4th wall and give you a Mission Complete screen.

 

 

In ME1 they were more like mini hubs with missions throughout. It was much more fluid. They never took you out of the game world in order to give you a mission summary of what you just did and how much money you made and what materials you acquired. The sequels felt like I was playing mission after mission after mission. It felt like an arcade shooter with a bunch of missions. The original felt like I was playing through an adventure. It felt like 1 story that was naturally connected. It didn't feel held together by 5-10 minute episodes of action.

[JeffZero]

A-friggin'-men. This is precisely why I went from "extremely enthusiastic" to "somewhat cautious" in DAI's wake.

Exploration sounded great. The lifelong Trekker in me was entrhalled.

And then...

[Vazgen]

No. Not really. In ME3, when you select a location on the mini map, you are knowingly starting an individual mission. In ME2 they break the 4th wall and give you a Mission Complete screen.

 

 

In ME1 they were more like mini hubs with missions throughout. It was much more fluid. They never took you out of the game world in order to give you a mission summary of what you just did and how much money you made and what materials you acquired. The sequels felt like I was playing mission after mission after mission. It felt like an arcade shooter with a bunch of missions. The original felt like I was playing through an adventure. It felt like 1 story that was naturally connected. It didn't feel held together by 5-10 minute episodes of action.

Well, ME2 and ME3 did not have those mini missions. On the other hand, there were more and bigger missions instead. 

 

Agreed on the Mission Complete screen, it should not have been implemented IMO. 

 

What I was saying is that in ME1 you do the same - navigate to a planet, choose "Land" and start a mission. ME3 is quite similar in that regard, although the missions are much more focused on the main objective. I guess NME will give more freedom to the player.