135 réponses à ce sujet

[CptFalconPunch]

I honestly can't believe people call DA:I a grind. Seriously.

Grinding is killing the same creature over and over and over again for a 0.001% chance (or less) of the drop you want... and you gotta get 3 of them.

Nowadays anything without a cutscene, apparantly, is a grind.

As for the story being locked and them 'forcing' you to do 'filler': gross exageration. You get power for basically everything. But I suppose doing anything besides main story guests is grinding too

 

Because gathering flowers and killing the same enemies over and over isn't really that intriuging or inspring. Even under current gen graphics.

 

Although the examples you mentioned. 0.0001% chance....

 

Dear lord, what have they done to you? D:

[goishen]

No, that's not a grind.  It's one use for the term grind but far too small.  Grinding is killing things for no reason for experience.  In every other DA game, we've had a reason to kill things.  "Hey, go here, talk to these mages...  If you can't get them to see reason, kill them."  "Hey, go here and talk to these bandits and try and get our money back..."

 

Here, it was just, "Huh, those guys are shooting at me.  Guess I'll shoot back."

 

EDIT :  Just go play EQ.  That'll teach you what a grind actually is.  And no, I don't mean EQ2. 

[Farangbaa]

Although the examples you mentioned. 0.0001% chance....
 
Dear lord, what have they done to you? D:

Oh I didn't play that game. My little brother did though. Ragnarok I think.

One of those super grindy Asian MMOs with rebirth (reset to level 1 and get all the way up to level 99 again to become even stronger!... yikes)

[SimonTheFrog]

DA:I has a lot do but most of it is optional. You get essential power and resources fairly quickly by just doing the interesting quests and pick up a few things along the critical path.

I'm not through my first playthrough in DA:I yet but I'm pretty far i think. I cleared several big areas at least.

 

This is in no way comparable to actual grind-games where you only proceed after killing thousands of identical enemies.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to say that there is too much fillers, but calling it "grind" is very misleading.

[Madcat 124]

I personally think they should make a few repeatable, optional missions, and have more fleshed out story missions. I'd rather have 50 memorable quests than 200 crappy ones. Humorously enough, that was one of my issues with Skyrim. Oblivion's quests > than skyrim's. 

[CptFalconPunch]

Oh I didn't play that game. My little brother did though. Ragnarok I think.

One of those super grindy Asian MMOs with rebirth (reset to level 1 and get all the way up to level 99 again to become even stronger!... yikes)

 

Wait Is he okay?

 

Why don't you introduce him to mass effect to get his mind of it

[goishen]

DA:I has a lot do but most of it is optional. You get essential power and resources fairly quickly by just doing the interesting quests and pick up a few things along the critical path.

I'm not through my first playthrough in DA:I yet but I'm pretty far i think. I cleared several big areas at least.

 

This is in no way comparable to actual grind-games where you only proceed after killing thousands of identical enemies.

I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to say that there is too much fillers, but calling it "grind" is very misleading.

 

Right, but getting that power is not optional.  If I'm sitting at two power and I need sixteen to get to my next main story quest, guess what I'm doing?  Grinding through areas.  Take my "can't get over the mountain" thing above, extrapolate it into "this is what I wanted to do" and go from there.   It turns into X, Y, Z, A, B, C, and D all detracting me from things I want to do.  Then it turns into, "Great, so I've just played for an hour, got none of the things I wanted accomplished in this game done...  And have no more power to boot."

[MrFob]

I am sorry goishen but you are going way too far in your argument. The power requirements for the main missions in DA:I are very reasonable. You can get them easily within an hour or so and you don't need to do any of the filler content for it at all. You can simply do the side quests that are actually interesting and that feature conversations and a plot. So yes, the game doesn't force you to do a few side quests but technically, so did ME2. After all, all the recruitment and loyalty missions were side quests as well, all of them were optional but you had to do a certain number to advance the main plot. Same deal.

 

DA:I has a lot of problems with its filler content but I don't think you can reasonably say that forcing it on the player is one of them. Unless you really count everything that is not the main quest as filler and that is unreasonable as well, IMO.

[goishen]

I suppose I am being single minded and narrowly focused on one mission.  But, when you've got something like Blackwall's "find every single grey warden" quest in there, it's not all that difficult to see that every single thing that detracts you from that quest is a grind.  Especially seeing as how I didn't even finish it.  I did Serah's, Cass's and Dorian's.  Wanna guess who I finished the game with?

 

Oh, and don't even get me started on the whole, "Choose your specialization in magic" thing.  That ****** quest took me like 10 hours.  Plus a google search.

[Linkenski]

I want areas as big as DA:I for sure, but 50% of every map should be designed for driving around in the Mako. The quests just have to be ME1 levels of deep, and I don't need them to tie into the main plot at all. The whole "Save my farm, I'll join you!" crap was forced and far, far, FAR inferior to the goofy yet enjoyable side-quests in DA:O, KOTOR, ME1, heck even ME2 and DA2.

 

"But it doesn't make sense for the protagonist to be doing this kind of stuff!" Get outta here, Bioware writer or game director! It's FUN and potentially it adds depth to the lore and pros for the reviews. Even IGN commented on ME3's bad side-quests.

 

What really happened when Bioware made ME3 and Inquisition? How come they can't make up fun side-quests anymore? The ones in ME3 where you don't just deliver random stuff and then "Quest completed!" were awfully written and none of those in Inquisition were memorable due to non-cinematic cutscenes with a camera zoomed too far out and they were often just fetch quests anyway.

 

We want some quality side quests dammit!

 

Things to take from DA:I:

- Vast open areas with amazing level design

- Collectibles like Shards perhaps

 

Things not to take from DA:I:

- Bad, superficial fetch quests that are obviously time-sinks.

- Non-cinematic camera. ME1 and ME2 did cinematic side-content perfectly fine.

- "Kill X" or "Collect X for me!" quests are a no-no. This is a single player RPG, not an MMO

- Main quest gating through the side-questing. No "War assets" and no friggin "Power".

 

Trust this fan on this one, Bioware, your game will get higher reviews and more GOTYs.

 

Just... whatever happens I don't wanna end up playing a game that might as well be called Mass Effect: Inquisition.

[SNascimento]

I want areas as big as DA:I for sure, but 50% of every map should be designed for driving around in the Mako. The quests just have to be ME1 levels of deep, and I don't need them to tie into the main plot at all. The whole "Save my farm, I'll join you!" crap was forced and far, far, FAR inferior to the goofy yet enjoyable side-quests in DA:O, KOTOR, ME1, heck even ME2 and DA2.

ME2 had the best side quets in the trilogy without a doubt. 

[cap and gown]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is obviously the straw that broke the camel's back as far as too much content. Just ran across this video asking if video games are too long. You might boggle at the question, but the author has some good points, and, most importantly, his entire video is obviously triggered by DAI's "filler conent."

 

[goishen]

Yah, but that's going a bit far off the deep end.  I was fine with 40 hours of gameplay (as with ME1-3).  Three hours of gameplay and I would tend to feel like I got ripped off, especially if I paid $60 for it.  I mean, hell, I'm already feeling ripped off by SR : Gat Out Of Hell because it was only six hours long.  And I only paid $20 for that.

[wolfhowwl]

Dragon Age: Inquisition is obviously the straw that broke the camel's back as far as too much content. Just ran across this video asking if video games are too long. You might boggle at the question, but the author has some good points, and, most importantly, his entire video is obviously triggered by DAI's "filler conent."

 

 

DAI isn't quite as bad as ME1 since at least the levels were clearly made by a person instead of being shitty terragen bullshit but yeah the content just isn't worthwhile.

 

Seems like they wanted a big game without spending big game money to create compelling quests or encounters. Then again EA was just boasting about their "cost discipline" in their conference call today.

[Linkenski]

ME2 had the best side quets in the trilogy without a doubt.

I don't think Loyalty quests are side content just because some are optional. They progress the main quest, they are designed just like the main quests in both length and amount of action and dialogue, so they are main quests IMO. ME1 has the best of what you'd call actual side quests, I think.

[Vortex13]

I want areas as big as DA:I for sure, but 50% of every map should be designed for driving around in the Mako. The quests just have to be ME1 levels of deep, and I don't need them to tie into the main plot at all. The whole "Save my farm, I'll join you!" crap was forced and far, far, FAR inferior to the goofy yet enjoyable side-quests in DA:O, KOTOR, ME1, heck even ME2 and DA2.

 

"But it doesn't make sense for the protagonist to be doing this kind of stuff!" Get outta here, Bioware writer or game director! It's FUN and potentially it adds depth to the lore and pros for the reviews. Even IGN commented on ME3's bad side-quests.

 

What really happened when Bioware made ME3 and Inquisition? How come they can't make up fun side-quests anymore? The ones in ME3 where you don't just deliver random stuff and then "Quest completed!" were awfully written and none of those in Inquisition were memorable due to non-cinematic cutscenes with a camera zoomed too far out and they were often just fetch quests anyway.

 

We want some quality side quests dammit!

 

Things to take from DA:I:

- Vast open areas with amazing level design

- Collectibles like Shards perhaps

 

Things not to take from DA:I:

- Bad, superficial fetch quests that are obviously time-sinks.

- Non-cinematic camera. ME1 and ME2 did cinematic side-content perfectly fine.

- "Kill X" or "Collect X for me!" quests are a no-no. This is a single player RPG, not an MMO

- Main quest gating through the side-questing. No "War assets" and no friggin "Power".

 

Trust this fan on this one, Bioware, your game will get higher reviews and more GOTYs.

 

Just... whatever happens I don't wanna end up playing a game that might as well be called Mass Effect: Inquisition.

 

 

 

No Shards. Never Again.

 

 

Scattering these little rocks around the map so we could play 'Where's Waldo' was not enjoyable at all to me. I image that BioWare wanted to implement the shards to encourage exploring the map, but forcing someone to "Go here and pick this up" does not make me want to explore the map or appreciate its hand crafted design. All the Shards succeeded in was making me painfully aware of the levels various invisible walls.

 

 

I didn't want to explore the map, or wonder to myself "Whats over this mountain?" All I did was try and plot the quickest path to the next shard or other side objective. When I discovered a new region, I didn't get excited at seeing a brand new level that was created from scratch, I groaned that there was another valley I was going to have to trek through.

[Linkenski]

I think the biggest annoyance in DAI was having the radar and map littered with objective markers, so I'd end up mindlessly navigating towards them like a slave.

If there was only a handful but really well done and long side quests instead of 20 simple and time sink ones I'd not have such a big problem with having to find 10-20 shards for each area. Besides, they just give you passive bonuses and are completely optional. I really didn't mind it except that it was just another "go here, collect that" quest amongst a dozen similar quests.

At worst Inquisition made me feel like I was mindlessly pushing the stick forward, not really paying attention to the area design, but constantly focusing on tracking the quest markers. That's not a fun game to play. It's a slog.

[Memnon]

The memory of Dragon Age 2 and its repetitive environments is too fresh in my mind to criticize what they did in DA:I. I enjoyed DA:I, then again I've also played MMOs for well over a decade, so my perspective may be somewhat skewed. I find it refreshing that Bioware took an enormous step away from DA2, whether it was an overcorrection could be debated ... but I would take DA:I's excessive content over DA2's copy/paste/block-off-with-crates any day. A happy medium would be nice, though ... 

[Hans Olo]

Please don't do that. Please respect my time.

 

As it is EA who owns the business, and time = money.. I fear that their money might be your time. 

[goishen]

Well, to be fair...   I've played MMO's since 1999.  Less, recently.  The last MMO I played was WoW about a year ago.  I wouldn't have minded it so much if there were more things to do in dungeons.  For example...  I can recall going into two dungeons where the only thing I had to do was to figure out the main quest of the dungeon itself.  This was like a sigh of relief, because this made me feel as though there was something big I was hoping for.  The end was in sight, compared with outside of dungeons and having three gazillion things to do and not knowing which way to go first.

 

Secondly, I would prefer it if the dungeons were better marked.  Or rather, marked at all.  Of the four (I believe) dungeons that I found, I stumbled across all four of them.  The only reason I went inside the dungeons is because I wanted to have a look around the old ruins.  Then, bam.  Loading screen.  Heh, well, I guess I found a dungeon.  ****.

[DirkJake]

I don't mind filler content as long as it is in a reasonable amount and has something unique and interesting in it.

 

[DAI spoilers below]

 

Collecting all the shards is excessive. I would not mind collect two or three in each place, but ten of them are too much. And please no more acrobatic jumps (damn that shard in the Hinterlands near that dragon). I like the idea where shards can be used to unlock special chambers that give you bonus, but the bonus should be more tangible and have more impact to the gameplay.

 

DAI got some good side quests in there though. I like the mystery in the quest in Chateau d'Onterre. The red templar quest and the 'choice spirit' in Emprise du Lion are also great. Fallow Mire is also unique where touching water will provoke those undead to attack. Crestwood's quest where you drain the lake is also interesting. The Hinterlands is fine; the area is not too large considering how much content is there.

 

Hissing Waste, as the name suggests, is a waste of such a large area. It feels to me that 80% of the area is just wind and sand. If I want to experience the feeling of emptiness of desert, I already have the Western Approach.

[SNascimento]

I don't think Loyalty quests are side content just because some are optional. They progress the main quest, they are designed just like the main quests in both length and amount of action and dialogue, so they are main quests IMO. ME1 has the best of what you'd call actual side quests, I think.

I didn't mean Loyalty Quests, I mean secundary missions, side quests if you will. ME1 and ME2 in a way were similar, both had intersting side quests that spanned more than one mission, with one leading to the other. Also in both game they felt relevant, many of those missions dealt with consequences of primary assignments or were somehow connected with important events/people. Sure, both games had they fair share of boring missions that is little more than go here there and get that. 

The difference then comes to the quality of the level themselves. Needless to say, they were a mess in ME1. Repetitive (and boring) level design to the extreme. So it just felt that missions were always the same, but with different enemies (sometimes not even that). If you didn't read the journal, you might not even know where you were or what you're doing there. 

Mass Effect 2 on the other hand featured a brand new local for every mission, so it always felt you were doing something new and discovering new places. That enriched the game and the galaxy. Not to mention ME2's superior gameplay. 

[SlottsMachine]

There is nothing wrong with filler content or fetch quests, they are a part of gaming (and really a staple for most RPG's). Its poorly done filler/fetch quests that I have a problem with, I'd say DA:I is a good example of what not to do in that regard. 

[Nitrocuban]

Poorly done and too much filler compared to the rest of the game, yes.