586 réponses à ce sujet

[MagisterMaximus]

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

 

They will never let us really play magisters.

I find your lack of faith...wait...

[Fast Jimmy]

Thats the point, they gave the inquisitor a cardboard personality because of all the complaining.

Which is a shame, in retrospect.

I was one of the ones here on the boards talking about how a voiced protagonist who projects a set personality makes role playing player-created characters quite difficult. Which it does, I still stand by that. The problem is that due to about two dozen OTHER design choices, they've made a game that I find not in the least bit appealing... so it's a little ironic that the one thing they did that I thought was a good design move wound up not being enough to secure a purchase from me, while being detrimental to the types of players who want the more cinematic, movie-like experience.

[tmp7704]

But how's it any different from Inquisition, dialogue with jack sh*t personality?
 
I wanted to kill myself when "I will not yield" translated in-game, to "I'm a stuttering 14 year old girl."
 
Or those pick up lines.. look good on the wheel but the execution? Cheesy and embarrassing. That isn't how you pull the moves, man... If I used those in real life I would get laughed at and probably spat on.
 
Despite all of this... I prefer it to Origins dialogue (or lack thereof).
 
Anyway... sarcastic Hawke's personality matches mine to a T. Everything she said is pretty much everything I would say, in that situation.

Personality different from your own != no personality.

[Marshal Moriarty]

If Dragon Age is to continue, then the writing team need to diversify. Writing whether it be for a series of books, for games, TV shows etc requires that an increasingly large and nuanced world and its inhabitants be fully represented with stories, characters, arc etc. But usually you will find that certain core issues get retold over and over and over because they are soapbox issues for the current writers. Certain characters will constantly steal the spotlight and focus, various races, institutions and regions will barely feature despite their supposed importance to the story and setting etc etc.

 

Its all to do with advocacy. If a character, race, institution etc has a friend on the writing staff who likes to write about such things, they can expect to be represented loudly and often. If the opposite is true and nobody on staff really cares about an issue or character, then it will be long, barren wait for anyone who hopes to hear of such things. Since the departure of writers like Jennifer Hepler under difficult circumstances, races like the Dwarfs have lost their advocates on the writing staff and are sliding completely out of focus. The Elves too are starting to see this, with their storylines becoming fewer and more reliant on 'big, incredible' reveals that just feel like retcons from writers who can't think of any other way to relate to them,

 

They need to stop playing favourites with certain characters (do I even need to name names here?) and cast a wider net in the races, issues, agendas and areas they focus on. With a whole world of potential, it feels like we are continually spinning our wheels on the same issues, the same areas, the same soapbox issues.

 

And it all starts with the writers. You need fresh perspectives, and people who want and are able to engage with new ideas and directions to take the story in, who have new kinds of tales to tell.

[Phoe77]

I actually would like for you to name names.  I'm curious about what you think is hogging the limelight because I actually thought that Inquisition did a decent job of broaching several topics in the setting.  They weren't all related directly to the main quest, but I thought there was definitely a better range of issues covered than in DA2, in my opinion.  

[Marshal Moriarty]

What issues are covered in this game?! DA2 gave us proper stories examining everything from the day to day life of regular folks in Thedas, to the tensions between diametrically opposed religions, the realities of being a mage and a templar, plus it gave us a closer look at the current situation of peoples like the Dalish (without it being another round of 'doing odd jobs around the camp to convince the Dalish that humans are nice - like Inquisition did *again*) We saw how the Dwarfs on the surface live and operate. We saw the political classes (of several nations too), and how that rubs up against and clashes with the demands of faith.

 

What does Inquisition do? Inquisition touched so lightly on everything that it ended up doing nothing in depth. Even things that had been thrashed to death in previous games got basically nothing. Like the Mage Rebellion. Now fair enough, hearing yet more soapbox philosophy about this subject hardly had me waiting with bated breath, but surely it deserved more than this! After the build-up and awkward railroading at the end of DA2, to get us to this war, they then drop it without discussing the issues *at all*! The Mages don't even feature in their own Quest!!!! Fiona shows up in the entrance hall and again in that cell, and that's it for the Mages during 'In Hushed Whispers'! 

 

Consider that despite representation of Orlais, Ferelden (sort of, but not really), Tevinter, the Qunari etc how much of any of that actually *matters* at all? The game is so wrapped up in pampering the player's ego and telling of their glorious rise to Inquisitorial power, that everything and everyone else gets extremely short shrift. The Qunari show up, pop a ceremonial wreath over your head, name you Bas'Alit'an for no reason I was able to fathom, and then sod off again. That's their involvement in this game! Tevinter has numours characters (Dorian, Calyperinia, Corypheus, Alexius etc) but they are reduced to extremely simplistic storylines. 'We aren't what we used to be - I'm restoring us to glory!' Yes, yes, wasn't that Merrill's story in DA2? And their other one is 'Tevinters are human too!' which is the cue for a series of sob stories where we find not all Tevinters are cold hearted slavers, or Tevinter Magisters can still love their gay sons. Well... did any of that actually need to be put front and center? Wasn't it already obvious?

 

How about the Dwarfs and Elves? For Dwarfs we get Varric - a recurring character from the last game, and one who actively dislikes and shuts down any and all conversations about Dwarfs. I don't need chapter and verse of their history again, but we still have an extremely narrow field of reference as regards what it is to be a Dwarf in Thedas (I want to see how their culture operates on the surface - we get told a bit about this in the codex in DA2, but as Varric shuns such things, we never see it).

 

And the Elves...  We have an elf who hates elves, an elf who isn't really just an elf, but some kind of God (who also seems not to want to talk about Elves at all). Races do not and should not exist just to give wikipedia bios of their people, but I would like to see some more of Elven custom (despite 3 games and an Origin that lets you play as one, we still know basically nothing of the City Elves and their ways). Their situation is so bad that they willingly seek out and convert to the Qun. Yet the series constantly slithers out of letting us engage with that at all. Fenris avoids the alienage, Merril is an outcast from all elves, Sera seems to hate elves. Meanwhile we have the Dalish, all.. what? 3-4 of them? And what do they do? Nothing. And what can you can do to interact with them? Do odd jobs to convince them humans (or whoever) are nice after all. Well, how original... If only there was something we could have spoken to them about. If only we'd needed information on a mysterious elven orb...

 

Plus hey, Inquisition featured a rarity - an Antivan who isn't a member or associate of the Antivan crows! Of course she had *trained* to be an assassin, because apparently everyone in Antiva does. So instead they went for the next stereotype and made her a diplomat and trader. Wouldn't it be nice to meet some people from the other nations (Neverra, Antiva) who could act as a more normal representative of their people? Now 'What's Normal?' I hear you cry. Well, not being either the boilerplate template of what you expect or someone who is violently *not* that stereotype and hates everything about that stereotype (Dorian is good example of the latter, being a sort of Anti-Tevinter, like Varric is an Anri-Dwarf).

 

Just give us regular characters from these places! We'll be able to pick up bits and pieces of lore just by having them around. They don't need to stand there saying 'Insert 5 dollars into the slot and hear a fact about Antiva' or 'Here is why I despise my country and its practices, making me the only person from my country who holds such views'.

 

Keeping us in Southern Thedas and/or dwelling on the same issues for 3 games has diluted this setting. Inquisition was just the final insult, having us effectively end all problems by the oldest of cliches - the world is ending, so everyone has to come together. And they do so around you and your Jedi Order. The Inquisition is *all* that matters in this game, it is the only thing that is dwelt on, and everyone else can go shank themselves as far as the game is concerned. Instead of giving us more diversity, it basically just said 'Oh never mind about any of them - you're the King! What are you going to do next, King?'

[Girtuoklis]

DA2 wounded franchise and DAI finished it off, choped head and pissed on its grave.

[Hawklyn Starblade]

No. can't wait for next DA game.

 

What i find interresting is ppl who think their opinion represents the majority, on forums etc. As forums dont even represent maybe 1% of  any games owner base.

 

[Ogillardetta]

DA2 wounded franchise and DAI finished it off, choped head and pissed on its grave.

Then move on. The game series is already dead an mutilated according to you so why are you here whining?

[katokires]

No. can't wait for next DA game.

 

What i find interresting is ppl who think their opinion represents the majority, on forums etc. As forums dont even represent maybe 1% of  any games owner base.

If we thought that somehow we wouldn't be so frustrated.

In my case I despair exactly because I know they win. From day 1 I knew I lost, lost the game, the franchise, the future of Bioware games, everything.

My posts are ridiculous exactly because I know there is no hope. Because I know I will never see a RPG from Bioware again. I lost. I gave nothing else to lose. So I just vomit **** here, all the **** Bioware made me eat.

[Majestic Jazz]

What issues are covered in this game?! DA2 gave us proper stories examining everything from the day to day life of regular folks in Thedas, to the tensions between diametrically opposed religions, the realities of being a mage and a templar, plus it gave us a closer look at the current situation of peoples like the Dalish (without it being another round of 'doing odd jobs around the camp to convince the Dalish that humans are nice - like Inquisition did *again*) We saw how the Dwarfs on the surface live and operate. We saw the political classes (of several nations too), and how that rubs up against and clashes with the demands of faith.

What does Inquisition do? Inquisition touched so lightly on everything that it ended up doing nothing in depth. Even things that had been thrashed to death in previous games got basically nothing. Like the Mage Rebellion. Now fair enough, hearing yet more soapbox philosophy about this subject hardly had me waiting with bated breath, but surely it deserved more than this! After the build-up and awkward railroading at the end of DA2, to get us to this war, they then drop it without discussing the issues *at all*! The Mages don't even feature in their own Quest!!!! Fiona shows up in the entrance hall and again in that cell, and that's it for the Mages during 'In Hushed Whispers'!

Consider that despite representation of Orlais, Ferelden (sort of, but not really), Tevinter, the Qunari etc how much of any of that actually *matters* at all? The game is so wrapped up in pampering the player's ego and telling of their glorious rise to Inquisitorial power, that everything and everyone else gets extremely short shrift. The Qunari show up, pop a ceremonial wreath over your head, name you Bas'Alit'an for no reason I was able to fathom, and then sod off again. That's their involvement in this game! Tevinter has numours characters (Dorian, Calyperinia, Corypheus, Alexius etc) but they are reduced to extremely simplistic storylines. 'We aren't what we used to be - I'm restoring us to glory!' Yes, yes, wasn't that Merrill's story in DA2? And their other one is 'Tevinters are human too!' which is the cue for a series of sob stories where we find not all Tevinters are cold hearted slavers, or Tevinter Magisters can still love their gay sons. Well... did any of that actually need to be put front and center? Wasn't it already obvious?

How about the Dwarfs and Elves? For Dwarfs we get Varric - a recurring character from the last game, and one who actively dislikes and shuts down any and all conversations about Dwarfs. I don't need chapter and verse of their history again, but we still have an extremely narrow field of reference as regards what it is to be a Dwarf in Thedas (I want to see how their culture operates on the surface - we get told a bit about this in the codex in DA2, but as Varric shuns such things, we never see it).

And the Elves... We have an elf who hates elves, an elf who isn't really just an elf, but some kind of God (who also seems not to want to talk about Elves at all). Races do not and should not exist just to give wikipedia bios of their people, but I would like to see some more of Elven custom (despite 3 games and an Origin that lets you play as one, we still know basically nothing of the City Elves and their ways). Their situation is so bad that they willingly seek out and convert to the Qun. Yet the series constantly slithers out of letting us engage with that at all. Fenris avoids the alienage, Merril is an outcast from all elves, Sera seems to hate elves. Meanwhile we have the Dalish, all.. what? 3-4 of them? And what do they do? Nothing. And what can you can do to interact with them? Do odd jobs to convince them humans (or whoever) are nice after all. Well, how original... If only there was something we could have spoken to them about. If only we'd needed information on a mysterious elven orb...

Plus hey, Inquisition featured a rarity - an Antivan who isn't a member or associate of the Antivan crows! Of course she had *trained* to be an assassin, because apparently everyone in Antiva does. So instead they went for the next stereotype and made her a diplomat and trader. Wouldn't it be nice to meet some people from the other nations (Neverra, Antiva) who could act as a more normal representative of their people? Now 'What's Normal?' I hear you cry. Well, not being either the boilerplate template of what you expect or someone who is violently *not* that stereotype and hates everything about that stereotype (Dorian is good example of the latter, being a sort of Anti-Tevinter, like Varric is an Anri-Dwarf).

Just give us regular characters from these places! We'll be able to pick up bits and pieces of lore just by having them around. They don't need to stand there saying 'Insert 5 dollars into the slot and hear a fact about Antiva' or 'Here is why I despise my country and its practices, making me the only person from my country who holds such views'.

Keeping us in Southern Thedas and/or dwelling on the same issues for 3 games has diluted this setting. Inquisition was just the final insult, having us effectively end all problems by the oldest of cliches - the world is ending, so everyone has to come together. And they do so around you and your Jedi Order. The Inquisition is *all* that matters in this game, it is the only thing that is dwelt on, and everyone else can go shank themselves as far as the game is concerned. Instead of giving us more diversity, it basically just said 'Oh never mind about any of them - you're the King! What are you going to do next, King?'

Man I really hope the Bioware reads this and uses it as a reference in the next DA game. I feel that despite the Mass Effect trilogy being human centric it was great in telling the core and deep stories off other planets and races and I believe the NPCs was great in representing their race and telling their stories to the player.

[atlantico]

No. can't wait for next DA game.

 

What i find interresting is ppl who think their opinion represents the majority, on forums etc. As forums dont even represent maybe 1% of  any games owner base.

 

You're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about.

[Andreas Amell]

I will glady wait to see what the next installment is. But I think Bioware can branch out to smaller projects to touch on many things fans expected from Inquisition.

[pdusen]

You're doing the exact same thing you're complaining about.

They didn't claim to be the majority of anything, so... No.

[atlantico]

They didn't claim to be the majority of anything, so... No.

 

No, that's not what I was referring to. That would be silly to think.

 

The using of made up statistics and hyperbole to support a personal opinion or grievance. That's what he did and that's what he's accusing others of doing. 

[pdusen]

No, that's not what I was referring to. That would be silly to think.

 

The using of made up statistics and hyperbole to support a personal opinion or grievance. That's what he did and that's what he's accusing others of doing. 

 

Yeah, he shouldn't have said less than 1%. I would have stopped at just saying that forumgoers aren't a statistically significant sample of anything.

[atlantico]

Yeah, he shouldn't have said less than 1%. I would have stopped at just saying that forumgoers aren't a statistically significant sample of anything.

 

They're a statistical samples of forumgoers

[tmp7704]

@ tmp774:
 
Not precisely. It's more along the lines of... that's my preferred personality in a game.
 
However, the dialogue wheel in Inquisition doesn't really present us with any major differences in personality. The tone of voice can change depending on situations.. i.e the conversation with Leliana at Haven. The renegade/direct option that sits on the bottom makes you come off like a real arse.  
 
And there are times when you can say "Well.. sh*t". (Which I appreciated)
 
And judgment in a box, "A box? I'm judging a box?"
 
But the dialogue responses are predominantly bland and indifferent.

My point was, the 'predominantly bland and indifferent' is also a personality. A different one from a douchebag or a clown, but one nonetheless. It's just not to your liking.

For what little it's worth I much preferred DAI version of the humourous lines than Hawke's attempts of it -- it fit the character I had on mind for my dwarf inquisitor, and she felt genuinely funny rather than a groan inducing idiot from some sitcom. So, you know... different tastes and all. It also felt different enough from the diplomatic/aggressive lines when I selected these, but at the same time there was no DA2 mood whiplash when alternating between them. This is a big improvement for me, compared to their previous attempt.

[katokires]

My point was, the 'predominantly bland and indifferent' is also a personality. A different one from a douchebag or a clown, but one nonetheless. It's just not to your liking.

For what little it's worth I much preferred DAI version of the humourous lines than Hawke's attempts of it -- it fit the character I had on mind for my dwarf inquisitor, and she felt genuinely funny rather than a groan inducing idiot from some sitcom. So, you know... different tastes and all. It also felt different enough from the diplomatic/aggressive lines when I selected these, but at the same time there was no DA2 mood whiplash when alternating between them. This is a big improvement for me, compared to their previous attempt.

Or you could have just said: I like sh*t. It's the same.

[atlantico]

https://t.co/TmHn5BSVNU

 

Perhaps DA will live on as a dating sim.. 

[tmp7704]

Or you could have just said: I like sh*t. It's the same.

You could've just said "Stop liking what I dislike!". It's the same.

[AlanC9]

Engaging with katokires is rarely productive. He's just working out his emotional pain here.

[Phoe77]

What issues are covered in this game?! DA2 gave us proper stories examining everything from the day to day life of regular folks in Thedas, to the tensions between diametrically opposed religions, the realities of being a mage and a templar, plus it gave us a closer look at the current situation of peoples like the Dalish (without it being another round of 'doing odd jobs around the camp to convince the Dalish that humans are nice - like Inquisition did *again*) We saw how the Dwarfs on the surface live and operate. We saw the political classes (of several nations too), and how that rubs up against and clashes with the demands of faith.

 

What does Inquisition do? Inquisition touched so lightly on everything that it ended up doing nothing in depth. Even things that had been thrashed to death in previous games got basically nothing. Like the Mage Rebellion. Now fair enough, hearing yet more soapbox philosophy about this subject hardly had me waiting with bated breath, but surely it deserved more than this! After the build-up and awkward railroading at the end of DA2, to get us to this war, they then drop it without discussing the issues *at all*! The Mages don't even feature in their own Quest!!!! Fiona shows up in the entrance hall and again in that cell, and that's it for the Mages during 'In Hushed Whispers'! 

 

Consider that despite representation of Orlais, Ferelden (sort of, but not really), Tevinter, the Qunari etc how much of any of that actually *matters* at all? The game is so wrapped up in pampering the player's ego and telling of their glorious rise to Inquisitorial power, that everything and everyone else gets extremely short shrift. The Qunari show up, pop a ceremonial wreath over your head, name you Bas'Alit'an for no reason I was able to fathom, and then sod off again. That's their involvement in this game! Tevinter has numours characters (Dorian, Calyperinia, Corypheus, Alexius etc) but they are reduced to extremely simplistic storylines. 'We aren't what we used to be - I'm restoring us to glory!' Yes, yes, wasn't that Merrill's story in DA2? And their other one is 'Tevinters are human too!' which is the cue for a series of sob stories where we find not all Tevinters are cold hearted slavers, or Tevinter Magisters can still love their gay sons. Well... did any of that actually need to be put front and center? Wasn't it already obvious?

 

How about the Dwarfs and Elves? For Dwarfs we get Varric - a recurring character from the last game, and one who actively dislikes and shuts down any and all conversations about Dwarfs. I don't need chapter and verse of their history again, but we still have an extremely narrow field of reference as regards what it is to be a Dwarf in Thedas (I want to see how their culture operates on the surface - we get told a bit about this in the codex in DA2, but as Varric shuns such things, we never see it).

 

And the Elves...  We have an elf who hates elves, an elf who isn't really just an elf, but some kind of God (who also seems not to want to talk about Elves at all). Races do not and should not exist just to give wikipedia bios of their people, but I would like to see some more of Elven custom (despite 3 games and an Origin that lets you play as one, we still know basically nothing of the City Elves and their ways). Their situation is so bad that they willingly seek out and convert to the Qun. Yet the series constantly slithers out of letting us engage with that at all. Fenris avoids the alienage, Merril is an outcast from all elves, Sera seems to hate elves. Meanwhile we have the Dalish, all.. what? 3-4 of them? And what do they do? Nothing. And what can you can do to interact with them? Do odd jobs to convince them humans (or whoever) are nice after all. Well, how original... If only there was something we could have spoken to them about. If only we'd needed information on a mysterious elven orb...

 

Plus hey, Inquisition featured a rarity - an Antivan who isn't a member or associate of the Antivan crows! Of course she had *trained* to be an assassin, because apparently everyone in Antiva does. So instead they went for the next stereotype and made her a diplomat and trader. Wouldn't it be nice to meet some people from the other nations (Neverra, Antiva) who could act as a more normal representative of their people? Now 'What's Normal?' I hear you cry. Well, not being either the boilerplate template of what you expect or someone who is violently *not* that stereotype and hates everything about that stereotype (Dorian is good example of the latter, being a sort of Anti-Tevinter, like Varric is an Anri-Dwarf).

 

Just give us regular characters from these places! We'll be able to pick up bits and pieces of lore just by having them around. They don't need to stand there saying 'Insert 5 dollars into the slot and hear a fact about Antiva' or 'Here is why I despise my country and its practices, making me the only person from my country who holds such views'.

 

Keeping us in Southern Thedas and/or dwelling on the same issues for 3 games has diluted this setting. Inquisition was just the final insult, having us effectively end all problems by the oldest of cliches - the world is ending, so everyone has to come together. And they do so around you and your Jedi Order. The Inquisition is *all* that matters in this game, it is the only thing that is dwelt on, and everyone else can go shank themselves as far as the game is concerned. Instead of giving us more diversity, it basically just said 'Oh never mind about any of them - you're the King! What are you going to do next, King?'

 

I've got to say, I don't really agree with a lot of this.  I will concede that many of the issues you mention don't feature as the central focus of quests, but most of them are addressed.  We hear a great deal about the Mage/Templar conflict from npcs, companions and advisors.  In my opinion that was enough for that issue, especially after we've had both sides drilled into our heads by every citizen in Kirkwall during DA2.  Vivienne and Dorian give their takes on the issue.  We hear from mages that could be said to come from every fraternity except for the Lucrosians.  We hear about the conflict's impact on the common man and how those common men react to mages because of it.  It's all there, it's just not shoved under your nose.

 

Dwarves don't get much coverage. In my eyes though, that's not necessarily a problem.  The game's plot doesn't really directly connect to the dwarves in any meaninful way, unless I'm misremembering something.  To me, it seems as though there's no reason for them to be intimately involved, outside of the Carta's interest in the weird way the lyrium market is behaving.  I feel similarly about the qunari.  Is deep and interactive content missing for them?  Yes.  Does that seem out of place or damaging to the story?  In my opinion, no.

 

I don't know.  I think that there's a great deal of information presented in Inquisition, even despite the (logical) focus on the Inquisition itself.  It's presented more subtly and the player doesn't always get to weigh in on what they hear or read, but it's still there.  That, in combination with the chances that we are given to weigh in and influence things, is enough for me.  

[atlantico]

You could've just said "Stop liking what I dislike!". It's the same.

 

You like bland?