222 réponses à ce sujet

[Phonantiphon]

And obviously there's the IGN Peoples' Choice Award.

I'm assuming this is:

A. Not representative

B. Not relevant

C. Paid for by EA

D. A lie spread by Bioware

 

Have I missed anything...?

[leaguer of one]

It lost to gamespot's GOTY to shadows of Mordor, good to know gamespot is still the best gaming site.

And it got the people choice awards. What does it say that the gamers voted it as goty?

[Dreamer]

And it got the people choice awards. What does it say that the gamers voted it as goty?

 

What percentage of gamers?

[CronoDragoon]

What percentage of gamers?

 

It garnered 33% of the vote, over three times what any other game received.

 

If you're asking how many people voted vs. total number of gamers, obviously it's miniscule.

[Dreamer]

It garnered 33% of the vote, over three times what any other game received.

 

If you're asking how many people voted vs. total number of gamers, obviously it's miniscule.

 

 

Bingo.

[Phonantiphon]

It garnered 33% of the vote, over three times what any other game received.

 

If you're asking how many people voted vs. total number of gamers, obviously it's miniscule.

So roughly like the number of people who persistently post on here about how they speak for everyone when they say how rubbish the game is, compared to the number of people actually owning and playing the game, then.

[Dreamer]

So roughly like the number of people who persistently post on here about how they speak for everyone when they say how rubbish the game is, compared to the number of people actually owning and playing the game, then.

 

So which is it that you're insinuating: 1) minority opinions matter, or 2) minority opinions don't matter?

[dreamgazer]

What percentage of gamers?

What's a "gamer"?

[SofaJockey]

 

Bingo.

 

Surveys always sample a proportion of the population.

That's how they work, and as long as the surveyed group are statistically significant and valid then it's meaningful.

 

By your implied logic, no survey is valid which is clearly not the case.

[frankf43]

So which is it that you're insinuating: 1) minority opinions matter, or 2) minority opinions don't matter?

Minority opinions matter; to the minority. Don't be surprised if the general populace don't really care what the minority think. 

[zyntifox]

Surveys always sample a proportion of the population.

That's how they work, and as long as the surveyed group are statistically significant and valid then it's meaningful.

 

By your implied logic, no survey is valid which is clearly not the case.

 

Ehm, i'm a statistician and if you by "valid" mean a random unbiased sample of a population or representative of the population i agree. If not, then i disagree. 

[Phonantiphon]

So which is it that you're insinuating: 1) minority opinions matter, or 2) minority opinions don't matter?

Neither.

I was simply pointing out the fact that by the logic displayed in much of this thread, the people on here who rubbish the game are no more representative of the gaming community as a whole than the people who voted the game into its awards are to the gaming community as a whole, as suggested by those who rubbish the game - (regardless of how vocal they are).

[CronoDragoon]

 

Bingo.

 

Great. The point is a neutral one. Pointing out that the silent majority exists tells us nothing. If you have some reason to believe the silent majority feels differently than those who chose to vote, go for it. In the meantime, I am content to say that of players who decided to vote, they voted overwhelmingly for DA: I.

 

And yes, that's a point about popularity, not quality. Still, I imagine the day people stop using popularity as a point in a game's favor will be the same day people stop using unpopularity as a point against it.

 

It'd be great if we could just discuss the game's pros and cons, but until I see silly threads like "Biower is finished" and "Dragon Age is dead" stop,  I'll keep pointing to the scoreboard, so to speak.

[Phonantiphon]

A Quote

I think that what you wrote before you edited it was interesting: and I think that you will find that the most vocal people, for example, on here, are the ones who don't like the game - (in this context).

On this forum, as in life in general, the vocal ones are more often than not the ones with a (perceived) grievance. Those with nothing to complain about tend to not advertise the fact, unless it's to respond to a point.

[Phonantiphon]

until I see silly threads like "Biower is finished" and "Dragon Age is dead" stop.

I am gonna give this a plus one.

[leaguer of one]

Neither.

I was simply pointing out the fact that by the logic displayed in much of this thread, the people on here who rubbish the game are no more representative of the gaming community as a whole than the people who voted the game into its awards are to the gaming community as a whole, as suggested by those who rubbish the game - (regardless of how vocal they are).

Not at all. If even if people did like the game, there still cases the would vote for another game they liked more. The vast majority voted dai as  goty or another. Why is that?

[Phonantiphon]

Not at all. If even if people did like the game, there still cases the would vote for another game they liked more. The vast majority voted dai as  goty or another. Why is that?

I should clarify that I am one of those who is a Very Definite Supporter of the game and Bioware.

This forum is full of people who would have you believe that they are the very last word in consumer opinion as far as it extends to DA:I - these people are overwhelmingly negative in their opinions.

However, when confronted by x or y statistic they equally persist in interpreting them to suit themselves, often along the lines of "Well GOTY and peoples' choice - whatever - are not representative" whilst conveniently forgetting that they themselves are also not representative, regardless of how much they think that they are.

 

I am not suggesting that any given statistic is, in isolation, representative - (I could equally hold them up as irrefutable proof of my opinion); the same logic must however apply to the opinions held by those I previously mentioned, incumbent within these forums.

Makes sense?

[Dreamer]

What's a "gamer"?

 

That's a very good question. I wonder how many "gamers" voted for Inquisition?

 

Surveys always sample a proportion of the population.

That's how they work, and as long as the surveyed group are statistically significant and valid then it's meaningful.

 

By your implied logic, no survey is valid which is clearly not the case.

 

There's a very big difference between an internet popularity contest and a scientific poll.

 

Minority opinions matter; to the minority. Don't be surprised if the general populace don't really care what the minority think. 

 

Yep. My point is that the people voting for these things also represent a minority. For their opinion to trumpeted as meaningful (and at the same time minimizing the voice of an unhappy minority), we're being presented with a double-standard.

 

Neither.

I was simply pointing out the fact that by the logic displayed in much of this thread, the people on here who rubbish the game are no more representative of the gaming community as a whole than the people who voted the game into its awards are to the gaming community as a whole, as suggested by those who rubbish the game - (regardless of how vocal they are).

 

I'm glad we agree then. These popular votes are meaningless and trite.

 

Great. The point is a neutral one. Pointing out that the silent majority exists tells us nothing. If you have some reason to believe the silent majority feels differently than those who chose to vote, go for it. In the meantime, I am content to say that of players who decided to vote, they voted overwhelmingly for DA: I.

 

And yes, that's a point about popularity, not quality. Still, I imagine the day people stop using popularity as a point in a game's favor will be the same day people stop using unpopularity as a point against it.

 

It'd be great if we could just discuss the game's pros and cons, but until I see silly threads like "Biower is finished" and "Dragon Age is dead" stop,  I'll keep pointing to the scoreboard, so to speak.

 

Do you have some figures you're using to ascertain that these people represent a silent majority?

 

As long as people continue to minimize the opinions of people with which they disagree, I will continue to call those people out.

 

Not at all. If even if people did like the game, there still cases the would vote for another game they liked more. The vast majority voted dai as  goty or another. Why is that?

 

I don't know why that is. Do you? I can imagine a number of different scenarios for why Inquisition did well in popular polls, but very few of them have to do with the game's quality...

[Phonantiphon]

I don't know why that is. Do you? I can imagine a number of different scenarios for why Inquisition did well in popular polls, but very few of them have to do with the game's quality...

"I don't know why that is, but in keeping with the nay-sayers on here I am unwilling and/or unable to give any credence to the idea that people might just actually genuinely like the game, and have no issues with its perceived quality." 

And you were doing so well...

[NextGenCowboy]

Dreamer, aren't you minimizing the opinions of those you disagree with as well? You're disregarding the opinions of all those people who voted for it, are you not? We're never going to have a consensus, nor will we ever have a full review/score from every person who ever purchased or played the game. We can point to the People's Choice award and infer that, many of the people that played the game, and voted for that particular award, enjoyed the game.

[CronoDragoon]

Do you have some figures you're using to ascertain that these people represent a silent majority?

 

Where did I say GOTY votes represent the silent majority? I said that the silent majority is neutral until shown to be otherwise, so pointing out that they exist tells us nothing.

 

I thought this was obvious when I said I was content to say that of those who voted they favored DA: I. The statement was meant to limit the discussion only to the sample to which it was applicable.

[Dreamer]

"I don't know why that is, but in keeping with the nay-sayers on here I am unwilling and/or unable to give any credence to the idea that people might just actually genuinely like the game, and have no issues with its perceived quality." 

And you were doing so well...

 

That's precious.

 

You think that because some people who like the game undoubtedly voted for it, that it somehow suggests other motives do not exist. Motives such as: the other nominated titles did not interest the voter; the other nominated titles were not played by the voter; the voters represent a vocal minority of happy people who would otherwise remain silent in the absence of popularity polls; the voting demographic was modified by external media and advertising.

 

You're adorable.

[dreamgazer]

That's a very good question. I wonder how many "gamers" voted for Inquisition?

Does it matter? What qualifies one to be a gamer as opposed to a "gamer", anyway?

Are those who have played BioWare game since the beginning who loved Inquisition gamers or "gamers"?

[This is the End My Friend]

It's good to see that the "it's my opinion so it must be fact" mentality is still alive in this thread.

 

You stay classy, BSN.

 

I will stay classy. Thank you. 

[Dreamer]

Dreamer, aren't you minimizing the opinions of those you disagree with as well? You're disregarding the opinions of all those people who voted for it, are you not? We're never going to have a consensus, nor will we ever have a full review/score from every person who ever purchased or played the game. We can point to the People's Choice award and infer that, many of the people that played the game, and voted for that particular award, enjoyed the game.

 

I am minimizing people who minimize the opinions of others--usually by employing double-standard. I have made no statements as to my own like or dislike of the game, and therefore represent myself only as interested in making sure people recognize that "love" threads are as silly as many claim "hate" threads to be.

 

If it is annoying for some to see repeated complaint threads, then it should be equally annoying for them to see repeated support threads. Unless, of course, they were operating under the mentality that positivity is more meaningful and valuable than negativity. I disagree, obviously, and recognize that all opinions are neither good or bad--they're simply expressions of experience.

 

Where did I say GOTY votes represent the silent majority? I said that the silent majority is neutral until shown to be otherwise, so pointing out that they exist tells us nothing.

 

I thought this was obvious when I said I was content to say that of those who voted they favored DA: I. The statement was meant to limit the discussion only to the sample to which it was applicable.

 

It's possible I misunderstood your meaning; you so quickly jumped to talk of silent majorities after suggesting the opinions expressed were neutral. You made it clear you had already decided on a value judgement, so I made an inference. If that was incorrect, I apologize.

 

We can't apply anything to the samples because no one was sampled--and this is the key difference between popularity and scientific polling data.