20 réponses à ce sujet

[Rynas]

There seems to be a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding regarding this.  The short story regarding this masterwork is that it doesn't quite work the way we would probably expect.  Here is a video to show off its weirdness:

 

 

Test 1 (Health damage)

Setup: 594 starting health (full), single hit.  We would like to see it heal 25% of damage to health.

Damage taken: 468 (134 physical + 334 cold)

Remaining health: 594 - 468 = 126

Ending health: 141

Total healed: 15 (3.2% of 468)

 

Test 2 (Barrier damage)

Setup: 107 starting health, single hit.  We would like to see it heal 25% of damage to barrier.

Damage to barrier: 949 (633 physical + 316 cold)

Starting health: 107

Ending health: 182

Total healed: 75 (7.9% of 949)

 

Test 3 (Stacking barrier damage)

Setup: 107 starting health, two hits in quick succession.  If it overwrites instead of stacking, it should heal only the second hit, so total healing should be about the same as Test 2.  Otherwise, it should heal about twice as much as Test 2.

Damage to barrier: 975 (644 physical + 331 cold) + 945 (605 physical + 340 cold) = 1920

Starting health: 107

Ending health: 255

Total healed: 148 (7.7% of 1920)

 

Conclusion 1: Does not heal 25% of damage taken (see any of the tests)

Conclusion 2: Stacks at least when Barrier is damaged (compare tests 2 and 3)

 

It's possible that it interacts with melee/ranged/magic defense in unexpected ways.  It's also possible that it's bugged in some other way.  Either way, it doesn't work the way many people describe.

 

In spite of all that, it can be extremely effective combined with Barrier in typical fights, usually better than Heal 1% of maximum health.

 

[Edit: Formatting & text]

[ashwind]

Interesting... I could never figure out how this silly on hit gain health thingie works but it seems that it works best with barrier. I tried it on my warrior and it does not seem to be effective in anyway; maybe due to armor and damage resistant.

 

Some says it resets with each hit but from this video is does not look to be the case. Maybe OP can try one where you get hit by rapid attacks like the beam from the Arcane Horror, it does multiple hits of small spirit damage. So if the reset theory is accurate, it should heal for virtually nothing.   I am too lazy to test it

[GoodFella146]

lol u created a new thread.  totally necessary

[Rynas]

Interesting... I could never figure out how this silly on hit gain health thingie works but it seems that it works best with barrier. I tried it on my warrior and it does not seem to be effective in anyway; maybe due to armor and damage resistant.

 

Some says it resets with each hit but from this video is does not look to be the case. Maybe OP can try one where you get hit by rapid attacks like the beam from the Arcane Horror, it does multiple hits of small spirit damage. So if the reset theory is accurate, it should heal for virtually nothing.   I am too lazy to test it

 

Test 3 shows that it doesn't reset.  If it reset, it should heal about the same as Test 2.  If it stacks, it should heal about 2x as much, which is what it did.

 

I also found it to be crap on warriors.

[ashwind]

Test 3 shows that it doesn't reset.  If it reset, it should heal about the same as Test 2.  If it stacks, it should heal about 2x as much, which is what it did.

 

I also found it to be crap on warriors.

 

There could also be another explanation. the description is ambiguous, it says Heals X% of Damage Taken Over X seconds. It never states if that the damage taken is only from the last hit.

 

It could also be the case that when the second hit procs, it refreshes the effect, thus it heals for the "total amount of damage from both hits" you have taken if you already have that "regen x% over x duration" effect on you. It could even be taking into account the damage you have already suffered, that is why in Test 1, you heal so little because Test 2 and Test 3 you started out missing 400++hp but who knows

[Rynas]

Huh...are you suggesting that "damage taken" refers to how much health you're missing, rather than damage taken from a particular hit?  Interesting...hadn't thought about that interpretation before.  The numbers still don't work out, but it could help explain the huge discrepancy between Test 1 and 2.

[teks]

I have a theory on part. The per second thing. Just like the necromancer, its not per second, its per tick, and ticks do not equal one second, so it heals what would have been proportionate per tick, but its much less because less ticks occur in the timeframe given. This was a huge miscommunication on the developers end for sure. Some programmer did all these DoTs and he never realized that a tick isn't a second, and he sucks.

 

Additionally, it appears that the additional fire damage being delt is not working.

 

If we only do physical damage and consider that each tick is actually 2 seconds, then the healing actually is 25%

 

Test 1

134 physical damage *.25/2 = 16.75

Actual damage healed= 15

 

Test 2

633 physical damage *.25/2 = 79.125

Actual damage healed = 75

 

Test 3

1249 physical damage *.25/2 = 156.125

Actual damage healed = 148

 

I believe the small difference is just because it rounds down the values...

 

lets figure out what the value of each tick should be pretty easily. The ability assumes its healing 25% in a total of 10 ticks, so take 25% of the damage received and divide that value by 10. Thats the healing per tick. If we round that number down we should get exactly what was healed.

 

Test 1

134 * .25/10 = 3.35

If we round 3.35 down we get 3.

3 * 5 = 15

Perfect

 

Test 2

633 * .25/10 = 15.825

Round down to 15

15*5 = 75

Perfect again.

Well, that solves that. Someone petition for them to double all Dots in the game.

 

However, test 3....

Test 3

We have to round the two values seperately.

644*.25/10 = 16.1

605*.25/10 = 15.125

So we got 16 and 15 respectively.

16*5 + 15*5 = 155

Ok that failed. a cookie to anyone who can see why.  I'm playing around, but still can't quite get it. Its looks to me like it loses half a tick of the original healing when they are combined. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it.

[sinosleep]

Up voting for video. This section needs far, FAR more video. Way too many people make way too many completely BS claims that get passed around as fact because people can't be assed to prove it with video.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

Up voting for video. This section needs far, FAR more video. Way too many people make way too many completely BS claims that get passed around as fact because people can't be assed to prove it with video.

ah yes

 

let me buy a camera so you can see that pull of abyss weakens no enemies

and virulent walking bomb will not pass to other alive enemeis in the explosion when dozens of other people have mentioned the same thign over and over because bioware in no way has rushed this game and it's 100 perfect. 

 

BRAVO

[zeypher]

Sino meant that video experience puts doubters to rest. Like blessed blades, his video established that yes it is indeed bugged. Video provides good affirmative proof so people do not spend time arguing that it is not.

[teks]

ah yes

let me buy a camera so you can see that pull of abyss weakens no enemies
and virulent walking bomb will not pass to other alive enemeis in the explosion when dozens of other people have mentioned the same thign over and over because bioware in no way has rushed this game and it's 100 perfect.

BRAVO

Speaking of bs claims, the virulent walking bomb is working. Ive used it a ton, i tested all its mechanics, i made a video. Maybe your confused with how virtuent walking bomb works? It only spreads from the original explosion, the secondary explosions will not proc the spread a second time. Both explosions cause knockdown, and all dots in the game do half their advertised damage.
While people dont need to make videos, testing these mechanics rather then spreading rumors is geneeally preferable.

[GoodFella146]

Speaking of bs claims, the virulent walking bomb is working. Ive used it a ton, i tested all its mechanics, i made a video. Maybe your confused with how virtuent walking bomb works? It only spreads from the original explosion, the secondary explosions will not proc the spread a second time. Both explosions cause knockdown, and all dots in the game do half their advertised damage.
While people dont need to make videos, testing these mechanics rather then spreading rumors is geneeally preferable.

 

Damn!  Somebody just got exposed!!

                         (Biotic Flash Kick)

[teks]

Calling people out in a thread created solely to call people out.

[Rynas]

It was intended to inform, too. 

 

Also: Revenants hit really hard.  E.g., 633 physical + 316 cold is after 55% melee defense and 35% magic defense.  That implies 1,900 raw damage per hit of a three-hit attack.  With no defenses or cold resists, that's enough to burn through a full barrier and kill you, even with max armor. 

[teks]

It was intended to inform, too.

Also: Revenants hit really hard. E.g., 633 physical + 316 cold is after 55% melee defense and 35% magic defense. That implies 1,900 raw damage per hit of a three-hit attack. With no defenses or cold resists, that's enough to burn through a full barrier and kill you, even with max armor.

what did you think about my theory. Wanna test on something which is only physical damage?

[Psyfun]

Teks, that looks to be right, it is healing for half the listed value, but does stack... Tests with Guard need to be done as well though. As for test 3 losing half a tic, this is undoubtedly caused by overwrite. The second damage occurs in the middle of a tic, causing the amount "restored" during that time to fall off of the new total. Overwrite is a pretty common issue with programming damage/heal over time effects, so I'm quite sure that is the issue there.

 

P.S: Thanks Rynas for going out of your way to show all this in a clear manner.

[sinosleep]

ah yes

 

let me buy a camera so you can see that pull of abyss weakens no enemies

and virulent walking bomb will not pass to other alive enemeis in the explosion when dozens of other people have mentioned the same thign over and over because bioware in no way has rushed this game and it's 100 perfect. 

 

BRAVO

Uh what?

[Rynas]

P.S: Thanks Rynas for going out of your way to show all this in a clear manner.

 

No problem.

 

Teks: Not sure what the mechanism is, but your idea might explain it.  Also might be worth seeing what it's like with no defense or low defense, to see if that's contributing to the problem.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

From what I can gather, as long as the option exists, the guard per hit masterwork will be better for rogues, and even warriors, simply because the damage healed here doesn't seem to be useful in much of a practical way, for them (although I suppose it could save on healing potions in between fights, if only minimally.)

 

For mages, I suppose it is more useful when using Barriers.

 

Even so, I suspect that I'd probably skip this masterwork, in favour of many of the others.

[zeypher]

Nope, best is 1% heal per hit, beats guard any day for simple fact guard is always 25% of your hp, best guard per hit is 5, so the 1% hp beats the guard one when your hp is 500+, 

[Psyfun]

Zeypher, the only issue with that calculation method is Guard on Hit applies up to 25% beyond Full HP, 1%HP on hit only applies after taking damage. Which means at 100% HP Guard on hit adds infinitely more value.

 

Both are good but it's hard to qualify one of the two as objectively better. However this is a bit off topic since this thread is about Heal % damage taken.