148 réponses à ce sujet

[AWTEW]

It's good that we have the CheatEngine script to make them other than beige then (Though, hey Bioware, this really needs to be patched!)

In anything else, I prefer my Inquisitor. I like my Hawkes, but Hawke is too defined IMO. The personality choice dominates everything to the point that they appear schizophrenic if you want to vary your behaviour dependent on the situation.

Fair enough, but for me the inquisitor was not defined enough. I was expecting something like the hawke system but improved, not what we have now 'where picking angry and humerous responses still gives us nice diplomatic'. It's Like they went way too far in the other direction, amd completly forgot us players who like a more defined protagonist.

I can related to Hawke because i semi-knew who hawke was, but the i quisitor is..unrelatable, no matter what class/race combination i pick.

[Hathur]

Fair enough, but for me the inquisitor was not defined enough. I was expecting something like the hawke system but improved, not what we have now 'where picking angry and humerous responses still gives us nice diplomatic'. It's Like they went way too far in the other direction, amd completly forgot us players who like a more defined protagonist.

I can related to Hawke because i semi-knew who hawke was, but the i quisitor is..unrelatable, no matter what class/race combination i pick.

 

I agree. While I do like numerous single moments the inquisitor has at times and some very well formed lines / scenes from time to time, the character just often feels too much like a blank avatar. It lacks the detailed backstory that either Hawke, or the the Warden from DAO had. Hawke's family and her interactions with them played a nice role in making the character feel tangible in some sense.. the struggles, frustrations, triumphs etc.. all of it helped humanize the character despite the stumbling of the actual plot / story of the game.

 

The warden in DAO also felt far more tangible.. there was a pretty rich detailed history you got to experience and playthrough in the start of the game.. we got to see where this character's beginnings came from, what they were exposed to at a pivotal moment in their life, who they knew & associated with before their grand adventure began. Like Hawke, it humanized the character, made them someone I can understand.

 

Inquisitor has a short text blurb at character creation of their past.. other than that you start the game with zero sense who your character is, why they are where they are at the start and no opportunity is ever given to understand the character as a person.. it is very much just a blank avatar with a voice.

 

Mass Effect even allowed us to pick a simple "origin" or personality type in a way at character creation... i.e. War Hero, a lone survivor, a colony kid or a spacer or earthborn etc.. all of those options come up from time to time (in ME1 anyway) to help us understand who shepard is, where she came from and what experiences she had in life that helped make her the person she is. 

 

DAI really could have benefited from a similar system. As it stands the inquisitor is mostly uninteresting, not a character I will remember at all. Hawke I'll remember, the Warden I remember, Shepard I remember.. these people were not just blank avatars - they felt more tangible... more memorable.

 

I find it frustrating too that we get to learn a fair amount about the past of numerous followers, yet the inquisitor is little more than the "question machine" ... the one who asks everyone what's going on, what do we do.. etc.

 

The inquisitor talks to companions like they're people .. but nobody really talks to the inquisitor like she's a person - or at least not often... it's like they KNOW she's just an avatar for a player in a video game.. a blank slate that's just there to listen to their own stories. It all just contributes to making the protagonist feel kinda dull.

[Kilyra]

I never would have agreed with this on my first play through because I was making such an effort to play sincerely and from the gut - and I'm a pretty nice/diplomatic person so the dialogue fit perfectly and easily.

 

Then, my second play through, I decided I wanted to play my Dalish dame more like Legolas' father, Thranduil - quite regal and snooty while putting the needs and interests on my own race about all else. Or at least be colder to the human characters because of their history - I realized there wasn't much I could do terribly different choice-wise to make a point of putting elven needs above others. 

 

This plan was utterly destroyed the first time I went to talk to Cassandra as she practiced outside of Haven. I went with the bottom dialogue and, out of nowhere, started joking with Cassandra "I hope that's not me your imagining when you hit the training dummy! *giggle*" with a big, stupid grin on my face. No matter which dialogue option I went with, I was forced into playing nice with her when I really wanted to have some level of renegade or at least snoot! You know...pull a Vivienne! haha

 

Other conversations have had more of the variety I wanted, which is great. But that was a big "What. The. Hell?" moment for me.

[Chiramu]

The only time I was super pissed at the dialogue wheel was during the Wicked Hearts quest. The game gave me quests to do, so I did them, I wanted to support Gaspard but Morrigan told me about a new quest. I didn't want to not do the quests, so I was then locked to hating on Gaspard for some reason when I got into dialogue. After being locked into a dialogue I didn't want to get into, I was then locked to the multitude of cutscenes where I was spamming f**k, f**k, f**king game! I reloaded and couldn't go back and not do the quests but at least I could support Gaspard in the end.

 

That was the only time where I was displeased with the dialogue options. Thank you Bioware for locking me into dialogue that did not resemble a single thought in my head.

[zeypher]

That is why i say, since their games are not rpg's might as well stop with the pretending and embrace action adventure genre properly. Instead they are in no mans land and do not appeal to anyone. 

 

I certainly play bio games as action adventure and coming from that view point their games are not bad, but rpg hell no.

[Ieldra]

The only time I was super pissed at the dialogue wheel was during the Wicked Hearts quest. The game gave me quests to do, so I did them, I wanted to support Gaspard but Morrigan told me about a new quest. I didn't want to not do the quests, so I was then locked to hating on Gaspard for some reason when I got into dialogue. After being locked into a dialogue I didn't want to get into, I was then locked to the multitude of cutscenes where I was spamming f**k, f**k, f**king game! I reloaded and couldn't go back and not do the quests but at least I could support Gaspard in the end.

 

That was the only time where I was displeased with the dialogue options. Thank you Bioware for locking me into dialogue that did not resemble a single thought in my head.

That is rather odd. I was never locked into hating Gaspard. In fact, the dialogue options most appropriate throughout this quest were not to blame anyone since you really couldn't know at that point. Do you remember exactly where that was?

 

Also, you can do all the sidequestss here and end up having Gaspard on the throne. The only thing you can't do is do all the sidequests and reconciliate Briala and Celene since that would require 11 halla statuettes and you can only have 10 after you use one to open a door required by the main quest. Possibly you also can't make them all work together and finish all the sidequests.

[TudorWolf]

i didn't find the dialogue options that bad, but I do agree that sometimes the tone of the response was totally unexpected. Some innocent looking options come out quite aggressively or accusatory when the wheel didn't make it seem like that would happen and that irks me

[stonerbishop]

That is rather odd. I was never locked into hating Gaspard. In fact, the dialogue options most appropriate throughout this quest were not to blame anyone since you really couldn't know at that point. Do you remember exactly where that was?
 
Also, you can do all the sidequestss here and end up having Gaspard on the throne. The only thing you can't do is do all the sidequests and reconciliate Briala and Celene since that would require 11 halla statuettes and you can only have 10 after you use one to open a door required by the main quest. Possibly you also can't make them all work together and finish all the sidequests.

Maybe it was a bug but I swear I picked up 11 my last run. I completed herd of halla then still picked up one more statue

[Ieldra]

Maybe it was a bug but I swear I picked up 11 my last run. I completed herd of halla then still picked up one more statue

Well, I did say "You can only have 10 after you use one to open a door required by the main quest." There are 11 in total, but only 10 to use freely to open halla doors in the Palace.

 

And I'd still like to know what this apparent "being locked into hating Gaspard" was.

[line_genrou]

The worst is still DA2

I think it would have been better if the dialogue wheel was out of DA and we go back to DA:O dialogue options, which were exactly what your character said and aimed completely to role playing

It seems like Bioware think "let's have this ME wheel so everyone knows it's a bioware game". Wtf?

No. DA is DA, ME is ME. Like angryjoe said, why can't each game do its own thing?

 

my point is: the dialogue wheel limits the role play

[Korva]

The wheel is definitely one of Bioware's worse ideas and one that should never have invaded this series. Who on Earth thought it would be a good idea to make players take wild guesses at what their character is going to say ... in a roleplaying game?

[Ieldra]

The wheel is definitely one of Bioware's worse ideas and one that should never have invaded this series. Who on Earth thought it would be a good idea to make players take wild guesses at what their character is going to say ... in a roleplaying game?

Yeah. Completely insane. Easily the worst feature introduced into the genre since it exists. The paraphrasing, to be precise. I don't really mind the wheel as a way to organize reply options.

[line_genrou]

The wheel is definitely one of Bioware's worse ideas and one that should never have invaded this series. Who on Earth thought it would be a good idea to make players take wild guesses at what their character is going to say ... in a roleplaying game?

They aim to make this type of games more accessible (they said so themselves), so they need to simplify these sort of things

[Korva]

Yes, and that is and always has been nonsense because there's nothing "accessible" about gambling on our characters' dialog. People who don't have the one-second attention span required to read more than the often painfully imprecise wheel paraphrasings are going to hate this sort of game anyway. If Bioware wants "more accessible" games, they should start by improving their cruddy UI.

[Ieldra]

They aim to make this type of games more accessible (they said so themselves), so they need to simplify these sort of things

Except that it isn't simpler but more complicated. In DAO, I didn't have to second-guess the writers in order to know the workings of my own character's mind.

[Lebanese Dude]

I always reload if I feel I went out of character or elicited a reaction I didn't want.

Even in DAO, I didn't know the tone of the dialogue option I chose which would lead to frustration. What I assumed was cynical wit would turn out to be hostility and I would only know it by the persons reaction.

In DAI I mainly reloaded conversations that had the emotion or reaction choices. It's hard enough predicting the paraphrase outcome, not to mention expecting a certain emotional reaction.

DAI paraphrases were better than DA2 though.

Maybe they could return to the DAO full line response while keeping the icons introduced in DAI?

[ThreeF]

They aim to make this type of games more accessible (they said so themselves), so they need to simplify these sort of things

The thing is the paraphrasing sometimes is just weird.

 

I don't have a very strong example off top of my head, but for instance one option really irks me( that's why I remember it): there is an option in one conversation that reads "I'm glad I could help" which in voice is translated "I'm happy you are alright". These two sentences are very loaded and imply two different things about the character that speaks them. A nuance, sure, but it bugs me. If you are going to paraphrase you out to be very careful and precise.

 

 

Maybe they could return to the DAO full line response while keeping the icons introduced in DAI?

 

This might create the problem of having hear the line twice, once in your head and once in voice. I'm guessing that at least in part this is why they opted for paraphrasing. Might not be problem to some, but for a number of people it could be tedious.

[Chiramu]

 

 

And I'd still like to know what this apparent "being locked into hating Gaspard" was.

 

Doing the side quest after meeting Morrigan and then returning to the ball room...

[line_genrou]

I always reload if I feel I went out of character or elicited a reaction I didn't want.

Even in DAO, I didn't know the tone of the dialogue option I chose which would lead to frustration. What I assumed was cynical wit would turn out to be hostility and I would only know it by the persons reaction.

In DAI I mainly reloaded conversations that had the emotion or reaction choices. It's hard enough predicting the paraphrase outcome, not to mention expecting a certain emotional reaction.

DAI paraphrases were better than DA2 though.

Maybe they could return to the DAO full line response while keeping the icons introduced in DAI?

But in DA:O is pretty obvious when your response is hostile or sarcastic, the NPC reaction that is is unkown, but that's because they have personalities so they respond differently to what you say

[line_genrou]

Except that it isn't simpler but more complicated. In DAO, I didn't have to second-guess the writers in order to know the workings of my own character's mind.

A lot of players don't have patience to read stuff in games, they are in a hurry to press buttons. So reading a lot of dialogue options is boring to some

[Lebanese Dude]

But in DA:O is pretty obvious when your response is hostile or sarcastic, the NPC reaction that is is unkown, but that's because they have personalities so they respond differently to what you say

 

Not always. Many lines aren't clear enough in what tone they are being used in.

 

A simple example:

 

What do you want? (direct tone)

What do you want? (frustrated/irritated tone)

What do you want? (diplomatic tone)

 

Only be learning the person's reaction can you infer what tone was used.

 

Alistair is particularly annoying in this regard as the apparently hostile remarks turn out to be the jokes which he approves of, while the friendly concerned ones often turn out to be the condescending douche ones.

 

You also don't really get their personalities until late into the game. By then it's a little too late isn't it?

 

 

 

This might create the problem of having hear the line twice, once in your head and once in voice. I'm guessing that at least in part this is why they opted for paraphrasing. Might not be problem to some, but for a number of people it could be tedious.

 
Yeah this was presented to both DA2 and DAI game testers who concluded that repeating lines is tedious.

I'd suggest a toggle for those who want the option, but it would likely be difficult to create an interface that supports both methods.