148 réponses à ce sujet

[ThreeF]

I'd suggest a toggle for those who want the option, but it would likely be difficult to create an interface that supports both methods.

This actually could work even in a current setup given that the spoken lines are not extremely long. From a programming perspective it's not that difficult.  You still would have to account the screen size. I mean on my screen most of what is spoken could be fit there without any paraphrasing, on laptop? I'm not so sure unless you make the for smaller (which is not a good idea)

[line_genrou]

Not always. Many lines aren't clear enough in what tone they are being used in.

 

A simple example:

 

What do you want? (direct tone)

What do you want? (frustrated/irritated tone)

What do you want? (diplomatic tone)

 

Only be learning the person's reaction can you infer what tone was used.

 

Alistair is particularly annoying in this regard as the apparently hostile remarks turn out to be the jokes which he approves of, while the friendly concerned ones often turn out to be the condescending douche ones.

 

You also don't really get their personalities until late into the game. By then it's a little too late isn't it?

 

 
Yeah this was presented to both DA2 and DAI game testers who concluded that repeating lines is tedious.

I'd suggest a toggle for those who want the option, but it would likely be difficult to create an interface that supports both methods.

Well, that's usually what real life is like. You don't know how a person will react to what you say, so you either change eventually the way you speak to them or continues to be an ass to them.

What do you want you have to be put into context. Normally "what do you want" is too direct to some people and can be rude.

[Lebanese Dude]

This actually could work even in a current setup given that the spoken lines are not extremely long. You still would have to account the screen size. I mean on my screen most of what is spoken could be fit there without any paraphrasing, on laptop? I'm not so sure unless you make the for smaller (which is not a good idea)

 

There's also the problem that the Inquisitor sometimes has auto-dialogue here and there for simple comments to streamline the flow of the conversation.

 

Those would naturally not be possible to caption since they would cut ahead of the conversation. 

 

This isn't that big of an issue (Why would you need to caption it), but it would create an instance of incomplete control.

[Lebanese Dude]

Well, that's usually what real life is like. You don't know how a person will react to what you say, so you either change eventually the way you speak to them or continues to be an ass to them.

What do you want you have to be put into context. Normally "what do you want" is too to some people and can be rude.

 

True, but my original point was that the Warden isn't any better than the Inquisitor in this regard as you can't control the tone of your character either way and the reactions can often lead to reloads just as easily.

[ThreeF]

There's also the problem that the Inquisitor sometimes has auto-dialogue here and there for simple comments to streamline the flow of the conversation.

Those would naturally not be possible to caption since they would cut ahead of the conversation. 

Those are out to be left alone as they are. I'm fine with those in most cases, the only moments I mind not having control over those is when they stir into something very opinionated that is directly opposite to the previous line (which seldom happens)

 

Truthfully in DAI I'm more annoyed that some of the dialogue lines are too extreme without having any middle ground, like the in the instances of allying yourself to Mages and Grey Wardens. The way those line are worded there is room for any reasoning than the one provided by them. In mages case you are their knight in shiny armour (albeit a blind one) and with grey wardens you belong to their fan club (with members-only pin and a toy flag). The fact that your character delivers these lines as if someone lit fire up their behinds doesn't helps either. The wheel did not prepared me for this.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Part of the fun of the dialogue wheel is the risk of saying something stupid. It happens to me in real life anyway. Something sounds fine in my head but once the words start coming out of my mouth I realise I've made an error and there's no "load saved data" option. The likelihood of this happening increases tenfold after the consumption of alcohol.

 

 

I do think that it was easier to swap between different dialogue options in inquisition than in DA2. Hawke could seem like she had crazy mood swings if you deviate too much. Nothing beats snarky Hawke though, so much fun to play. I'd actually say the middle option is more like witty/charming in inquisition as opposed to being snarky/sarcastic in DA2.

 

 

The real troll to conversations in my opinion is the kinect in ME3. I liked to use the kinect to command squadmates in battle what I didn't appreciate was someone in my house asking me a question while Shep was about to say something and the kinect deciding that was me selecting the paragon dialogue option (ruthless colonist Shep would not say that!) >_<

[ThreeF]

Part of the fun of the dialogue wheel is the risk of saying something stupid. It happens to me in real life anyway. Something sounds fine in my head but once the words start coming out of my mouth I realise I've made an error and there's no "load saved data" option. The likelihood of this happening increases tenfold after the consumption of alcohol.

 

IQ, the drunk Herald of Andraste, sort of makes sense now that I think about it (all things considering).

Spoiler

[Lebanese Dude]

 

Truthfully in DAI I'm more annoyed that some of the dialogue lines are too extreme without having any middle ground, like the in the instances of allying yourself to Mages and Grey Wardens. The way those line are worded there is room for any reasoning than the one provided by them. In mages case you are their knight in shiny armour (albeit a blind one) and with grey wardens you belong to their fan club (with members-only pin and a toy flag). The fact that your character delivers these lines as if someone lit fire up their behinds doesn't helps either. The wheel did not prepared me for this.

Same here. I also get a little annoyed by the deliveries of the more important dialogue choices in the game. It's one of my few gripes with DAI actually.

 

On my first play-through where I self-inserted, I actually reloaded the Alexius fight four times (On nightmare + FF with a suboptimal party no less) because I found the way my Inquisitor phrased the alliance declaration to be waaaaay out of character in that he was ecstatic to have them join the Inquisition. Conscription was little better with the blatant hostility. Eventually I settled on conscription but I muted the part where he says "We would be mad to trust you" since that was way out of character for me too. 

 

Later I figured out that it made sense out of context since your PC was making their first major decision that would lead up to them becoming an Inquisitor, so any decision had to be made in a confident and authoritative manner. At the time though it was jarring.

 

In retrospect I would have been better off going the templar route and conscripting them since that would be more in character than any other choice, but I really wanted Dorian ASAP 

[Ieldra]

A lot of players don't have patience to read stuff in games, they are in a hurry to press buttons. So reading a lot of dialogue options is boring to some

Setting aside the utter contempt I have for that way of playing a story- and character-driven game.....you could do it like DX:HR and use short commands on the wheel, but display the full text of the first spoken line at the bottom of the screen or somewhere else. That would satisfy both sides. But no, apparently Bioware's games have to have PCs suffering from dementia and not knowing their own minds.

[Lebanese Dude]

Setting aside the utter contempt I have for that way of playing a story- and character-driven game.....you could do it like DX:HR and use short commands on the wheel, but display the full text of the first spoken line at the bottom of the screen or somewhere else. That would satisfy both sides. But no, apparently Bioware's games have to have PCs suffering from dementia and not knowing their own minds.

 

 

hahaha

 

Would displaying the first line of the conversation necessarily solve the problem in a game that allows this much variance in dialogue? 

It's something to consider.

[Ieldra]

hahaha

 

Would displaying the first line of the conversation necessarily solve the problem in a game that allows this much variance in dialogue? 

It's something to consider.

It worked fine in DXHR. The problem is, most paraphrases are too short and too vague to even indicate what the line will be about exactly. Take the answer "You're wrong" in the conversation about you being the Herald of Andraste. The line is "I'm not the Herald of anything, particularly not Andraste". This says so much more than the paraphrase that you can't know if it will suit you in advance, and if one of the other options will suit you better. You are not in control of your character's characterization, and that's about the worst thing a roleplaying game can do to the player.

 

It wouldn't be a perfect solution, most likely, but way better than what we have. Tone indicators plus full text of the first line should be comprehensive enough for almost all situations.

[ThreeF]

Later I figured out that it made sense out of context since your PC was making their first major decision that would lead up to them becoming an Inquisitor, so any decision had to be made in a confident and authoritative manner. At the time though it was jarring.

 

Thing is in the case of mages .... nobody is listening. Sure it's the first important decision but the whole point of the game is that how things happen are not how the things are put on record. There is at least an option later on to say "I lied about it" (don't know where that one leads) and let Vivienne spy on them, which I always do, but still the game assumes in more than one case that you either utterly hate something or are in blind love with it. I wanted my  middle option, or at least the same option but not expressed with such a vigor (playing with the British female voice), I half expected Vivienne commenting on my own dementia right then and there.  I don't quite remember because I only allied with Templars once, but I'm under the impression that the lines there are somewhat more moderated.

 

As for the Wardens... what happened to "you are too few, you need help and protection" or  "there is no way I'm letting you running near our borders when Corypheus can so easily influence you, we need to watch you". You don't even get to say that these were your intentions after the fact.

 

edit: Oh, and the mage quest lines are the prefect example of the intonation being all over the place. One minute you are the reasonable sort saying "well we did came for mages" and the next moment you are a passionate preacher in church.

[JumboWheat01]

Say what you will about the Dialogue Wheel... at least I know when I'm suddenly flirting with a companion thanks to that big ol' heart icon.  During my latest playthrough on Origins, I somehow managed to trip Leliana's romance flag, despite just having a conversation about how Zev and I have been enjoying each other.  Then I had to go through the whole break-up thing with her, despite just saying "hey, we're friends, I'm cool with just that."

 

Good thing I have the Feast Day Gifts addon...

[Lebanese Dude]

*snip*

True. The mutually exclusive reactions only really occurred at the main plot points of the game though. The Winter Palace quest actually is pretty good at allowing you to properly role-play the entire arc coherently.

 

Most recruitment is pretty good at this as well. DAI allows me to comfortably recruit certain companions that my character would normally be suspicious of.

 

For example, Iron Bull can be recruited hesitantly with a "Don't make me regret this option". I did this in my current mage playthrough.

Dorian can be recruited with a "You can stay but we're watching you". I expect to choose this on my Chantry zealot playthrough.

 

etc..

[Lebanese Dude]

 

 

It wouldn't be a perfect solution, most likely, but way better than what we have. Tone indicators plus full text of the first line should be comprehensive enough for almost all situations.

 

Agreed.

[Amirit]

I'd say what they REALLY NEED now - when full voiced and animated cut-scenes is something that is not going away and will be used in future games should there be some - they need a feature from SW-TOR - functional Escape button. For those who did not play TOR, in any dialog you can press Esc and it will restart dialog\ cut-scene. (Tbh, I would not mind to get UI from TOR as well (with all functionality). In TOR it was done out of necessity (you can not reload in MMO) but I think that feature would solve at least some problems, no need to make unnecessary savings, no waiting for loading screens when conversation goes wrong (and much easier to explore possible answers on the wheel). 

[SpiritMuse]

Not a wheel troll, but I love how the female IQ walks into the room after hearing the Divine scream for help and calmly says...What's going on here?  At least the male voice actor had some level of urgency to his voice.

  

That line is actually a recycle, I don't remember the exact moment, but you get to hear it again and in that situation it is more fitting.

I know this was a few pages ago but I know the answer because I just got to that part - it's from the conversation where you interrupt Dorian and mother Giselle arguing.

[ThreeF]

  
I know this was a few pages ago but I know the answer because I just got to that part - it's from the conversation where you interrupt Dorian and mother Giselle arguing.

 

Yes! thank you, it's been on my mind for a some time now.

[Ieldra]

I'd say what they REALLY NEED now - when full voiced and animated cut-scenes is something that is not going away and will be used in future games should there be some - they need a feature from SW-TOR - functional Escape button. For those who did not play TOR, in any dialog you can press Esc and it will restart dialog\ cut-scene. (Tbh, I would not mind to get UI from TOR as well (with all functionality). In TOR it was done out of necessity (you can not reload in MMO) but I think that feature would solve at least some problems, no need to make unnecessary savings, no waiting for loading screens when conversation goes wrong (and much easier to explore possible answers on the wheel). 

It would help, but it would be patching a broken feature in the wrong place. What we really need is some way to see the spoken line in advance, so that this restarting feature that breaks the flow of the conversation if you need to use it won't even be necessary.

[Amirit]

It would help, but it would be patching a broken feature in the wrong place. What we really need is some way to see the spoken line in advance, so that this restarting feature that breaks the flow of the conversation if you need to use it won't even be necessary.

 

Agreed but lost any hope to see it included. At least "Esc" was successfully used. Though waiting for that to be implemented is like waiting for pause-button for cut-scenes.

[Isaidlunch]

My biggest issue with the DAI dialogue wheel is that the lack of icons for normal options makes it impossible to tell if the middle option is neutral or if it will make me sound like a smartass. There are times where I want to pick it for the paraphrase but I pass over it since I have no clue which one it is.

[JumboWheat01]

My biggest issue with the DAI dialogue wheel is that the lack of icons for normal options makes it impossible to tell if the middle option is neutral or if it will make me sound like a smartass. There are times where I want to pick it for the paraphrase but I pass over it since I have no clue which one it is.

 

As a Mass Effect veteran, I can tell you, by general rule of thumb, the Top-Right option is almost always the most helpful/diplomatic option, the Bottom-Right option is almost always the most direct/threatening/angry/rude/violent option, and the one in the middle the most neutral.  In the Dragon Age world, this seems to be replaced with snarkiness.

 

When things start taking up the whole wheel, you're on your own.

[Fireheart]

DA2 was by far, much worse. In DAI I feel like it started off good but the further I got in the game, the less and less dialgoue choices matched up with what was actually said. It was strange. It started off so good just to go back to near-DA2 style misleading.

 

What I hated most though, is how the Quizzy comes off as so polite sounding all the time, constructing full sentences and such, acting so diplomatic like every convo with every char has the potential to disrupt the future of the Inquisition, making sure not to step on any toes. Like, this merchant just came to work for you, so why are you, as the Inquisitor, talking to them as if you're trying to get a job working for them? I think it might have to do with the high-effeminate British fem VA I chose...

 

mini-rant over

[Violetbliss]

I loved the DA:II dialogue wheel, personally.

 

My Hawke was sarcastic all the way through, couldn't bring myself to pick any other option. Basically I didn't feel right alternating between "Let's rescue kittens", "Everything is a joke" and "I want you to die".

 

So much yes! I admit I'm a bit biased to DA2's dialogue just for sarcastic Hawke. It was just so awesome, especially with some companions around, to finally be able to be flippant as a protagonist of sorts, especially when there was a gender choice as well.