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[Bigdoser]

I personally felt that samson was the representation of a failed institution and a failed system and fits the game sense of exploring faith mages and templars used as slaves watchdogs and fights in the chantry wars aka exalted marches. Like Cory samson was abandoned left broken with the lyrium addiction burning away his mind who knows how many templars are in this situation? 

 

Plus lets not forget the seekers knowingly allowing it as well since they know how to get templar abilities without the lyrium issue hell by the end of inquisition I can't see the lyrium anything other than as a method of control. 

 

Cory and Samson both left and broken by their religious insituitions/gods. Hell someone in youtube said it best. Going by Cory memory stones in the temple of Dumat,I think he pitied both Samson and Calpernia hence why they are his champions because they have been also been used discarded and have been living a lie. 

 

Two youtubers said this in samson's judgement video. 

 

I can't help but agree with the guy. When you've been a slave your entire life the best you could do is to go out in a blaze of glory or live in comfortable lie. Why don't we get to judge the Chantry itself? It is single-handedly responsible for almost every conflict in the game that doesn't involve Corypheus.

 

pity Samson but do not feel his actions were justified. However, he is the perfect example of how badly the Chantry has been handling Templars. Samson is a victim too, I suppose. They make it seem like taking lyrium and putting up with the addiction is a "noble sacrifice" but addiction is never a good thing. It makes the Templars unstable and easy to manipulate. The Red Templars are the product of the Chantry's failure as it was all too easy for Corypheus to take advantage of their addiction to lyrium.

 



 

 

Can't change font its me talking now end of comments

 

Hell most people in the judgement video say the pity him more than anything it does not excuse him of the red templars actions but I can understand WHY he did what he did. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Pfft that man is a stain on his brothers.

He's a representative of nothing but weakness and failure.

[Bigdoser]

Another point I did the templar spec quest for my inquisitor and Ser made it a point that the pain of the addiction is downright terrible heck he even says that most templars being religous is how they deal with the pain of the addiction some use the camaraderie of the templars to deal with it. Ser says you need a pilar something to help you deal with the pain.

 

Plus a tranquil believed in samson so much that he killed himself looking at the red templars they look like complete monsters but deep down they may be doing this willingly because they believe in samson's and cory vision that much. 

 

Where we might see people giving into despair they are a group of people asking themselves why are we suffering so terribly for the chantry? Just to be abandoned when we are no longer useful? They may also be thinking If we keep fighting and dying cory will turn into a god that would hear our suffering? He already has given us the means for vengeance.  

[TheLastArchivist]

Why don't we get to judge the Chantry itself?

 

 

Exactly. 

This is why I always put Cassandra forth as Divine. She has the moral fiber to reform an institution that has become purely political and self-serving over the years.

 

Notice how the Chantry did NOTHING to stop Corypheus or close the Breach. It was a Seeker who had to mobilise people and resources to do what was supposed to be the Chantry's work: protect the Herald of Andraste and help her close the Breach.

[Bigdoser]

Pfft that man is a stain on his brothers.

He's a representative of nothing but weakness and failure.

Problem is that weakness was not born out of nothing what you may see weakness they see strength considering they are willing to DIE and sacrifice themselves for their vision. Hell a tranquil one who does not even have emotions was willing to die for that vision. 

 

Heck samson did not give a flying monkies at the judgement he was ready and willing to die for his beliefs and his goals of helping cory's vision. 

 

Exactly. 

This is why I always put Cassandra forth as Divine. She has the moral fiber to reform an institution that has become purely political and self-serving over the years.

 

Notice how the Chantry did NOTHING to stop Corypheus or close the Breach. It was a Seeker who had to mobilise people and resources to do what was supposed to be the Chantry's work: protect the Herald of Andraste and help her close the Breach.

 

Yup its the reason why I support cass and leliana as divine Viv is too conservative and I see the same issues coming up again. 

 

 

For me overall its the reason why I gave him to Cullen he was broken and abandoned I will not repeat the same mistake. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Problem is that weakness was not born out of nothing 

In his case?

He betrayed the mandate of his order, was cast out and then acted out against it for years like a petulant child.

He failed himself.

And then he has the ****ing gall to sit there and act like he, a traitorous failure to his brothers is their mouthpiece.

**** that.

[Bigdoser]

In his case?

He betrayed the mandate of his order, was cast out and then acted out against it for years like a petulant child.

He failed himself.

And then he has the ****ing gall to sit there and act like he, a traitorous failure to his brothers is their mouthpiece.

**** that.

Problem is the red templars don't consider the mandate of their order to worth jack considering the chantry is not "actually" using them for that mandate that's the point and what they have to suffer for the chantry whims. 

 

Plus finding out that information from seeker questline in my mind just added more justification I feel that samson story is what happens when religious institutions lie and use people's faith for their own ends in the end its not the church's that get left hurt or broken its the believers themselves. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Problem is the red templars don't consider the mandate of their order to worth jack

You mean Denam and Samson...scratch that.

Only Denam actually is a Templar by the time of DAI.

So yeah kudos fear of Cory and the deluded delusion of Samson led to some corrupting their brothers.

The source of the orders corruption as it is.

A madman who thinks he's doing them a favor and a traitor sworn to what he was to fight.

How exactly are two men spokesmen for what thousands support or believe?

[Steelcan]

Samson just isn't as good as Calpernia

 

it is known

[raging_monkey]

I actually liked samson he was sympathethic and overall my kind of villian.

[Kinsz]

I did in fact like Samson , not as much as Calpernia however. Still i kind of felt bad when i judged him , the expression on his face as he was addressing Cullen was just sad to see.

[Bigdoser]

You mean Denam and Samson...scratch that.

Only Denam actually is a Templar by the time of DAI.

So yeah kudos fear of Cory and the deluded delusion of Samson led to some corrupting their brothers.

The source of the orders corruption as it is.

A madman who thinks he's doing them a favor and a traitor sworn to what he was to fight.

How exactly are two men spokesmen for what thousands support or believe?

Yeah but consider HOW they got to that point its fairly evident in this game that the chantry failed a great amount of people. If the inquisitor does not intervene the templars pretty much walk into corruption to get the WHOLE of the upper order to follow this vision and then fainlly the lower ranking members. Something has got to be wrong some where down the line. Question here is how did this start?

 

Doing samson's judgement reveal it started with the chantry and how they were using the templars and I personally hold the belief they were using them after what we find out in the game. Hence I approve of cass new seeker order and justice for all. 

 

Do you expect a group of people to suffer a TERRIBLE addiction and then being forced to fight in the churches war, guard people and being used as an object of fear and oppression? You expect them not to snap at one point and say enough is enough? But wait! They can't because if they do they are thrown on the streets to suffer the addiction until it eventually takes them. 

 

Going by what Ser says the addiction is a ****** and the pain is unimaginable. When I talk to people about samson and view comments on his judgement people did not hate or loathe him all they had is pity that's it. 

 

I see samson the same way as Kirkwall as Cass said if they looked at the root causes they could of prevented the situation from happening but they only looked at the surface and saw meredith as justified. When you look at red templars I bet you see weak people who don't care what I see are people broken by the thing they believed in. 

 

Hence for samson judgement I always give him to Cullen. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Yeah but consider HOW they got to that point

Fear and weakness.

Anything beyond that is merely justification.

It's about how Cullen said it "your already beyond dying as a Templar, try dying like a Warden."

So yeah he can go boohoo the big bad church got me hooked on lyrium and sent me watch over mages all he likes.

It's a crock.

[Bigdoser]

Fear and weakness.

Anything beyond that is merely justification.

It's about how Cullen said it "your already beyond dying as a Templar, try dying like a Warden."

So yeah he can go boohoo the big bad church got me hooked on lyrium and sent me watch over mages all he likes.

It's a crock.

Well agree to disagree then, in the end I prefer samson as a nemesis as said before we see him differently if you give him to Cullen he believes he can be helped and redeemed samson is not sure but I personally feel its better to try than not to. 

 

I feel that exiling him is repeating the same thing and making him justified. 

[Hazegurl]

Samson is a loser who got cast from the Templars for a reason.  He learns nothing from his actions and instead opts to blame everyone else. I doubt Cullen can do anything for him, the man has his own problems than to deal with that red eyed junkie. Do I hold the Chantry responsible for a lot of crimes? Yes. Did they use the Templars and made them Junkies? Yes? But once out all he did was sit in Kirkwall's alley throwing tantrums. When Cullen got out he tried to better himself by kicking his addiction.

 

Besides, he'll never beat out Calpernia. Who is far more believable as the one who succeeds and more sympathetic overall. And I can't stomach him telling my mage that he'll be a better vessel. lol!!

[Master Warder Z_]

Well agree to disagree then, in the end I prefer samson as a nemesis

Of course.

I just view him as a vain madman.

He actually might have a point if the Templars hadn't had a choice to walk away at anytime.

Their duty is known to them for years, what it requires, what it leads to, how it ends.

They accept it.

That man spits on a valiant legacy of hero's and tries to spin it to justify his bull****.

[Cypher0020]

Question......... who is that guy?

 

Is that the same Samson from II.... the shady ex-templar we meet for like...2 or 3 quests?

[Master Warder Z_]

Question......... who is that guy?

Is that the same Samson from II.... the shady ex-templar we meet for like...2 or 3 quests?

Yup.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I would have preferred both to have shown up regardless of who we sided with. No matter what, Corypheus still has both Red Templars and Venatori backing him. They could have been the leaders for each. Basically Corypheus' Right and Left Hands. 

[Above Good and Evil]

I find Samson pitiable and vile at the same time, but I do sympathize with his circumstances - He was kicked out and his ward made Tranquil for DELIVERING A LOVE LETTER. Really? What the fudge :/ And this is BEFORE Meredith went cucoo with the Red Lyrium. It wasn't an escape plan; it was just a junevile letter of affection and they couldn't even give him THAT. Even if he believed in the Templar vision he would have been jaded by that experience.

[Bigdoser]

I would have preferred both to have shown up regardless of who we sided with. No matter what, Corypheus still has both Red Templars and Venatori backing him. They could have been the leaders for each. Basically Corypheus' Right and Left Hands. 

@Hanako I would of personally loved that.

 

 

I find Samson pitiable and vile at the same time, but I do sympathize with his circumstances - He was kicked out and his ward made Tranquil for DELIVERING A LOVE LETTER. Really? What the fudge :/ And this is BEFORE Meredith went cucoo with the Red Lyrium. It wasn't an escape plan; it was just a junevile letter of affection and they couldn't even give him THAT. Even if he believed in the Templar vision he would have been jaded by that experience.

 

Oh and Indeed above good and evil now think about how many other templars might have similar or even worse experiences than that. 

[Above Good and Evil]

Agreed. I hate that some circles not only treat Mages like inhuman prisoners, but actively PUNISH anyone who tries to show them even a bit of kindness. If that happened in the Ferelden Circle they likely would have ignored it or just give the Templar and Mage a lecture. Kirkwall? Nah, lets fire the guy who worked months on his vigil and lobotomize the Mage because he dared to have feelings :/ If Samson was in the Ostwick circle things might have gone differently.

[Master Warder Z_]

To me Samson is akin to servicemen joining ISIS.

Whatever his issue with the Order was, he betrayed it.

[Bigdoser]

Agreed. I hate that some circles not only treat Mages like inhuman prisoners, but actively PUNISH anyone who tries to show them even a bit of kindness. If that happened in the Ferelden Circle they likely would have ignored it or just give the Templar and Mage a lecture. Kirkwall? Nah, lets fire the guy who worked months on his vigil and lobotomize the Mage because he dared to have feelings :/ If Samson was in the Ostwick circle things might have gone differently.

Considering the Jowan situation I think fereldan would not take it lightly either if the same thing happened not as much as the kirkwall circle though. I just question the chantry and seekers thinking with the templars. Lets make a order of warriors who are drugged addicts, who are also jailers and forced to fight in our "holy" wars. Oh we also use this to control them and if any of them get funny ideas we throw them on the street with the addiction. There is no way this is not going to bite us in the ass! 

[Above Good and Evil]

To me Samson is akin to servicemen joining ISIS.
Whatever his issue with the Order was, he betrayed it.

Normally I'd agree but the Kirkwall circle was abhorrent: Samson was fired to delivering love letters - Remember that the Templars protect and confine Mages, and delivering a few whispered words does not break that. Conversely Alrik was tranquilizing people openly and flat out asked the Divine and Meredith to lobotomize every Mage. His punishment was.....absolutely nothing despite the fact that Tranquilizing Mages who passed their harrowing and without good reason is against the law. I don't excuse Samson, but it makes me cringe that well-meaning Templars like he once was are canned while monsters like Alrik and Karass are ignored or promoted and this was before the Lyrium madness.