23 réponses à ce sujet

[Aaleel]

I made a topic a couple of weeks ago about my impressions 20 or so hours in just getting to Skyhold.   Initial Impressions

 

Some people said I should come back and give thoughts when I finished the game.  I didn't buy it right away because of my dissatisfaction with previous releases, but I took advantage of the holiday sale and my X-Mas bonus at work.  Not going to rehash everything from the first thread, so here goes.  

 

Ending:

 

Anti climactic, I was a little disappointed is all I'll say to avoid spoilers.  Dual wield Human Rogue.

 

Areas:

 

I'm playing the game on a 2560x1440 monitor, bought a new video card so that I could max everything out on the new monitor and the game is gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous, and with the physics it was a very engrossing experience.  But I thought the game could have used a day/night cycle and not always be high noon in areas, always night, or always raining.  Seeing time change as you were exploring the areas would have added a great deal to the experience.  I also thought that some of the zones were big for the sake of being big.  They should have made some of the smaller and maybe increased the size of dungeons, mines, etc, instead of the duck in and out caves that were in the game.

 

Character:

 

I liked the Inquisitor, I'm at Skyhold on my second character and I'm really glad they brought back race selection.  The conversations are different as a Dalish elf as far as my beliefs, you have the option to have some us/them conversations with Solas.  So I'm actually looking forward to a dwarf, Qunari playthrough, or a total Joan of Ark believer type playthrough.

 

Paraphrasing was terrible, just bad at some points.  Thought I was making a comment, Inquisitor asked a questions, or vice versa.  The paraphrase was not representative of what came out sometimes.  

 

I would have liked to distribute the attribute points the way I wanted to, especially cunning and dexterity points.

 

I found the character creator excellent aside from the hair.  The options weren't good but what kills it is that the quality of it is far behind the other other textures making it stand out.

 

Combat:

 

I was fun in an action game Dragon's Dogma sort of way, without the actual strategy of going after specific body parts.  I would have liked to see a larger variety of enemies.  If you weren't farming for skins you were fighting humans for the most part, with the random wolf thrown in.  Dragon fights were fun though, I didn't kill them all on my first playthrough.

 

The tactical camera is trash though and I ended up barely using it.  Moreso I didn't really feel the need the use it because the fights didn't really require tactics for the most part.  I played some of the game of hard, and then switched to nightmare because I was over leveled and over geared.

 

Potions and barrier mages just replaced healers, but there had to be other tweaks they could have done as far as mana, health regeneration, potency/quantity of lyrium potions so you couldn't spam spells fight after fight, something. 

 

I don't know if this was a glitch or what, but second part of the game sometimes when I used stealth, no enemies would react to my companions even though they would be right in front of them.  Then as soon as I hit someone all hell would break loose.

 

Exploration:

 

I'm an explorer and a completionist so I loved the areas.  BUT...this created a problem where it was easy to get off the main storyline and become over leveled.  There should have been larger level gaps in the areas whoch would have made it impossible to finish entire areas first time visiting them.  They should have had areas that were like 5-20.  Have places that are sealed off by mountains and the only way through is a through mountain pass guarded by a fort.  You have to take the fort to access the next area.  If you're level 6 and the people in control of the fort are lvl 15, you'll have to come back.  Have dungeons where the monsters grow in level as you go down.  Towers where they get harder as you go up.  Put the higher tier metals in the bottom.  Would have given players something to do at higher levels other than just fighting dragons.  Hopefully in DLC.

 

Crafting:

 

Loved it, loved it, loved it.  I crafted all mine and my parties armor/weapons throughout the game.  Loved how you could change colors, add in the arms and legs, grips, hafts, everything.  Between the perks and loot I got a lot of schematics, and I bought others.  But the game allowed you to buy good gear, use perks to make rare gear available at vendors, and you got drops.  

 

Only two quibbles with it though.  Too easy to overpower you character since crafted items had no minimum levels like armor did.  They should have made access to higher level schematics and moreso higher tier clothes and metals harder until you progressed through the game.  Higher tier metals should have been in higher level areas, and skins should have been on high level mobs, not just dragons.

 

Other quibble.  The higher level metal colors were atrocious, ugly lol.  Everything of mine was Silverite lol, those pinks, oranges, and other colors were terrible.

 

But overall I thoroughly enjoyed the crafting in this game.  The upgrading of the potions, etc.

 

Story/Quests:

 

I'll go back to controlling the time players spend in areas because it was easy for the main story to become an afterthought and spend too much time in areas.  Power points were too easy to get making it easy to unlock every area and still have points to progress the story when you felt like it.  Areas should have opened up after story events instead of having access to everything after Skyhold.  I wish more areas would have had self contained stories like Crestwood, not all of them but a few more, a lot of the areas seemed to just be wasted space.

 

I thought the story missions were awesome honestly.  Here lies the abyss, and the mission before Skyhold were awesome, they just became lost in all the exploring and questing.  

 

Questing was a disappointment.  I would have liked to see some multi stage quests sort of like the guild quests in Skyrim.  Then those could have taken you to different areas and put some of that extra space to use.  The dialogue on the quests wasn't that good, you kind of listened and said "Ok, I gotta go" didn't even really tell the person you would do it.  The war table quests had more complexity than the ones you actually got to play.  Some of the companion quests were decent though.

 

Companions: 

 

I literally hated or was indifferent to all of them except Varric when I made the last thread.  Some have grown on me, I actually Vivienne, excuse me Madame de Fer, Iron Bull is funny, and Solas is kind of like a fourth adviser.  I still hate Sera I only use her in parties to torment Vivienne because it's funny.  Blackwall and Dorian are still just kind of there to me.  Maybe because I don't use them in parties a lot.  Cole is an interesting, well written character, but still creeps me out lol.

 

Music:

 

I thought the game was scored well, but didn't play the music nearly enough, it was just absent a lot.

 

Conclusion:

 

I really enjoyed the first playthrough, I started a new one as soon as I was finished.  I like crafting and I like seeing and exploring new areas so I those were big pluses to me.  The story was passable, the villain as well, and the ending was anticlimactic, will Bioware ever let us see our amassed army in action ever again.  I think they shot themselves in the foot allowing this in DA:O.

 

The game just needs more content, it seems like the game had a lot of wasted space and was just waiting for something to make use of it.  I'm still sticking with 8 - 8.5 I gave it in the first review.  It's on my second tier on Bioware games in the 'Good' category, but not great or outstanding.  We'll see what happens with DLC, expansions, mods.

 

As always just my 2 cents.

[Aaleel]

Also some things I've found out messing with graphics.  I haven't had many crashes or lagging issues with the new card.  I've found that it you're playing at higher resolutions you don't need multi sampling, makes absolutely no difference that I can see.  Use the post process but not the Multi sample, just a waste of FPS.

 

Ambient Occlusion, there is something wrong with the HBAO, the middle option, makes grass and other things look terrible.  If your PC can handle HBAO Full, use that, if not use SSAO.  

 

I found that in wilderness areas with a lot trees blowing and bending where its physx heavy that assigning Physx to the GPU in the Nvidia control panel instead of auto helps, but that just may be my PC setup.

 

Turn off the Origin running in game.

[Jawzzus]

ok

[wrdnshprd]

for me the music and tactical camera were the two biggest disappointments.. the ambient music was pretty much removed from the game and made the game feel less alive. 

 

regarding the tactical camera.. all they needed to do was re-add the control scheme from DA2.. if they would have done that this game would be the best in the series.

[MarchWaltz]

I did not like getting over-leveled, I am a explorer as well.

 

This is why not having enemy scaling is bad; you lose the challenge of the game.

 

I hope Mass 4 has enemy scaling.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I quite enjoy over leveling. And I also don't like the harm scaling does to the coherence of the setting.

My current Inquisitor just went to Crestwood for the first time. He's level 16, so those level 11 rifts are trivial. And it's great.

I oppose scaling in all its forms.

[DragonAgeLegend]

ok

[Aaleel]

I quite enjoy over leveling. And I also don't like the harm scaling does to the coherence of the setting.
My current Inquisitor just went to Crestwood for the first time. He's level 16, so those level 11 rifts are trivial. And it's great.
I oppose scaling in all its forms.

I'm not really a fan of level scaling either, which is why I was suggesting areas with larger level ranges, dungeons or other area areas where enemies get progressively harder. Forts with higher level enemies that give access to higher level areas, etc.

I do however hate being over leveled though. When the main story missions aren't challenging it takes away from the experience for me. Which is why I'm pacing myself better this game. Not crafting the best gear I can make at the time, not staying in areas as long.

[VahnXIII]

I think this is a great review and I agree on so many points. 

[Lebanese Dude]

I do however hate being over leveled though. When the main story missions aren't challenging it takes away from the experience for me. Which is why I'm pacing myself better this game. Not crafting the best gear I can make at the time, not staying in areas as long.

 

Well that's the thing.

 

There needs to be a balance between time investment and gameplay.

 

Those that meticulously explore every region and consistently craft powerful pieces of armor are investing more time into the game and are therefore receiving the appropriate reward of being relatively powerful compared to those that do not.

 

If that isn't the case, there is implicitly no reward for completing anything and progress loses all value.

 

Alternatively, if the game's difficulty is balanced around those that complete everything then those that do not would face a proportional spike in difficulty which not only is technically unfair but also eliminates any choice in how to approach the game. Do everything or die.

 

There is no simple solution. Level scaling is certainly the easiest but also leads to a certain cancellation of progress by continuously providing you with enemies that are as powerful as you. If your damage increases by 4 points and your enemy's armor also increases by 4 points, nothing changed. An example of this is Bethesda's notorious "Dragonbone bandits" meme.

 

--

 

There are still steps you can take to this problem that you can do to mimimize overleveling while simultaneously completing everything.

 

1) Avoid creature research. Not only does this give tons of tangential experience, it also increases damage done to creatures. Avoid picking up research items and destroy any that you do. Note that this will make you lose a couple of creature research related war table missions.

 

2) Avoid EXP perks. This includes the creature research and massache's method perk. The codex EXP perks also apply but they also provide roleplaying options. Therefore only take those that make sense with regards to how you are roleplaying your character. A human mage who had constant contact with his family and took part in lyrium smuggling can reasonably take all 4. A Qunari mercenary warrior or Dalish archer is likely to not take any.

 

Taking those two steps will eliminate a couple of levels easily, making you less likely to overlevel at any point in time throughout the game.

[Aaleel]

Well that's the thing.

 

There needs to be a balance between time investment and gameplay.

 

Those that meticulously explore every region and consistently craft powerful pieces of armor are investing more time into the game and are therefore receiving the appropriate reward of being relatively powerful compared to those that do not.

 

If that isn't the case, there is implicitly no reward for completing anything and progress loses all value.

 

Alternatively, if the game's difficulty is balanced around those that complete everything then those that do not would face a proportional spike in difficulty which not only is technically unfair but also eliminates any choice in how to approach the game. Do everything or die.

 

There is no simple solution. Level scaling is certainly the easiest but also leads to a certain cancellation of progress by continuously providing you with enemies that are as powerful as you. If your damage increases by 4 points and your enemy's armor also increases by 4 points, nothing changed. An example of this is Bethesda's notorious "Dragonbone bandits" meme.

 

Well they're easy ways.  If the areas had wider level ranges, or you have things like forts of docks that you have to take to gain access to areas on other side of mountains or islands people can't explore all parts of a zone on their first trip.

 

Then on top of that put tier 2 or tier 3 metals in these areas.  Schematics don't have minimum levels like looted armor, but at least if you limit the access to higher tier materials you limit the stats you can put on weapons and armors.  You limit defense, damage, you have lower % numbers, etc.  You can explore any area now, avoid fighting but get metals and other materials.  

 

But if you had to take a fort in a mountain pass to get through mountains you can't get by until you're the appropriate level.  Or if you had to take a dock to get access to an island.  There are ways to let people explore and craft good gear without giving away everything all at once.

 

Limit the amount of power points so you can't unlock every area.  Don't even open up some areas until you pass certain story missions.

[Lebanese Dude]

Well they're easy ways.  If the areas had wider level ranges, or you have things like forts of docks that you have to take to gain access to areas on other side of mountains or islands people can't explore all parts of a zone on their first trip.

 

Then on top of that put tier 2 or tier 3 metals in these areas.  Schematics don't have minimum levels like looted armor, but at least if you limit the access to higher tier materials you limit the stats you can put on weapons and armors.  You limit defense, damage, you have lower % numbers, etc.  You can explore any area now, avoid fighting but get metals and other materials.  

 

But if you had to take a fort in a mountain pass to get through mountains you can't get by until you're the appropriate level.  Or if you had to take a dock to get access to an island.  There are ways to let people explore and craft good gear without giving away everything all at once.

 

Limit the amount of power points so you can't unlock every area.  Don't even open up some areas until you pass certain story missions.

 

Why must things be enforced? Isn't the player responsible for their own experience? You are given choices so use them. An open world can be approached in any number of ways. That's the essence of open world. You are asking to linearize the game.

 

I also gave you a couple of solutions in my previous post to limit EXP gain if you want.

[Aaleel]

Why must things be enforced? Isn't the player responsible for their own experience? You are given choices so use them. An open world can be approached in any number of ways. That's the essence of open world. You are asking to linearize the game.

 

I also gave you a couple of solutions in my previous post to limit EXP gain if you want.

 

How would the player know, especially on their first playthrough?  If you like to explore, you're going to explore everywhere you're allowed to go until you either run into a fort you just cannot take, or some monsters that you just can't kill.

 

If you just ran through a new area and go to the crafting table, you're going to make the best gear you can because you don't know what you'll be facing next.  Why have minimum levels on looted gear or merchant bought gear, but then give people access to high level schematics early, or higher tier materials.  Most gaes you're limited by your crafting level so unless your powerlevel your gear improves as you progress.  No such controls in this game since you don't need any type of skill to craft.

 

If you can do research you're going to do research.  If you don't know what is coming next why would you limit anything you do.  I don't use guides or anything like it my first playthrough, so I try to discover as much as I can on my own.  So I'm going to do everything the game allows.

 

The game either needs to dole out access to areas as the story progresses, of have larger level ranges for monsters in the areas over all.  It would give people something to come back and do at higher levels.  If two pride demons popped out a rift in the Hitherlands, you'd have to come back later on to close that one.

 

I see nothing wrong with a player having to come to the conclusion, I cant handle this right now.  

 

If you're level 6, and tier two leathers/hides drops from monsters level 13/14 and up, you won't be getting your hands on it until you're a little further along.  You have to reach the bottom of a dungeon to get some tier 3 metals, you won't get them as fast.  

[RedZepp]

Very nice review.  I'm only just over 30 hours in and still haven't visited every area yet, but I'll throw in my $.02 in response to the OP and other comments in this thread:

1. I don't mind being over-leveled now and then.  I like some battles to be challenging, but I also like to feel like my character is very powerful.  It is very satisfying to simply destroy some enemies without breaking a sweat on occasion.  That is what makes me feel like my character is truly special and not just another fighter.  
2. I agree about the graphics.  The worlds are gorgeous, but having a time cycle would be nice.
3. This is the first RPG I've played where the side quests feel natural.  For the most part they feel like problems or opportunities an adventurer would actually encounter on his/her travels.  This changed, however, once I got to the Forbidden Oasis.  Nothing kills immersion for me like struggling to find a path from point A to point B.  It feels like an artificial barrier, and I have neither the time nor patience for confused backtracking.
4. Other than the racing side quests at Redcliffe Farm I've yet to use a mount.  it feels like they should be more useful than they are.
5. The "The Dawn Will Come" scene is one of the top 5 video game scenes I've ever experienced.
6. The combat in this game is just right for me.  I'm lazy and don't want to take the time to control everyone in my party.  I want to control my character and let the others take care of themselves.  With a few exceptions this works very well in this game. 
7. Speaking of lazy, so far this seems like a game in which you can be successful without the typical RPG min/maxing.  I hate it when you need a  spreadsheet to decide which skills to get or what to craft.  
8. I don't like the menu system.  Everything seems to take more clicks than it should.  And I really dislike how little information the game gives you about weapon and armor upgrades.  
9. I'm not a completist, so I'm not trying to do every single side quest on my first play through.  Some companions I've never talked to or used in my party.  I think this will make future playthroughs more interesting.  I just hope I don't miss anything crucial or necessary for the main plot.
10. I love the fast travel system and the fact that camps restore your health and restock your health potions.

Overall I agree with your score of 8 to 8.5.  This game has a lot going for it, but there is room for improvement.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Well they're easy ways. If the areas had wider level ranges, or you have things like forts of docks that you have to take to gain access to areas on other side of mountains or islands people can't explore all parts of a zone on their first trip.

Then on top of that put tier 2 or tier 3 metals in these areas. Schematics don't have minimum levels like looted armor, but at least if you limit the access to higher tier materials you limit the stats you can put on weapons and armors. You limit defense, damage, you have lower % numbers, etc. You can explore any area now, avoid fighting but get metals and other materials.

But if you had to take a fort in a mountain pass to get through mountains you can't get by until you're the appropriate level. Or if you had to take a dock to get access to an island. There are ways to let people explore and craft good gear without giving away everything all at once.

Limit the amount of power points so you can't unlock every area. Don't even open up some areas until you pass certain story missions.

I don't like the gating you propose. The whole point of having an open world is so we can go where we like for no reason at all.

A much simpler sosolution would be to give the entire game a much shallower power curve. Like BG1, where we only ever got to level 8.

[Cyonan]

I quite enjoy over leveling. And I also don't like the harm scaling does to the coherence of the setting.

My current Inquisitor just went to Crestwood for the first time. He's level 16, so those level 11 rifts are trivial. And it's great.

I oppose scaling in all its forms.

 

It also feels great when you stumble into one of the level 12 rifts in the Hinterlands and get crushed then come back at level 16 and stomp it into the ground with ease.

 

It makes it feel like you're actually getting more powerful.

[MajorStupidity]

It also feels great when you stumble into one of the level 12 rifts in the Hinterlands and get crushed then come back at level 16 and stomp it into the ground with ease.

 

It makes it feel like you're actually getting more powerful.

Going to the Hissing Wastes at a low level to get some higher tier schematics and trying to fight enemies several levels higher than me reminded me of Fallout: New Vegas and trying to go through the higher level areas to get to Vegas faster. More experienced players are allowed to play the game at their own pace, and decide if they want to deal with tougher challenges to gain access to better rewards. A concept games like Skyrim need to remember (thanks goodness for mods).

[Kurt M.]

It also feels great when you stumble into one of the level 12 rifts in the Hinterlands and get crushed then come back at level 16 and stomp it into the ground with ease.

 

It makes it feel like you're actually getting more powerful.

 

Or when you beat a dragon 2 levels above you after making some dramatic improvements to your party

 

Dragons are in fact the main reason I've made those 'big' improvements to my team....each time after I got my ass badly kicked by one of them (well, in truth it has happened to me only twice out of 6 dragons so far).

[atlantico]

Also some things I've found out messing with graphics.  I haven't had many crashes or lagging issues with the new card.  I've found that it you're playing at higher resolutions you don't need multi sampling, makes absolutely no difference that I can see.  Use the post process but not the Multi sample, just a waste of FPS.

 

Ambient Occlusion, there is something wrong with the HBAO, the middle option, makes grass and other things look terrible.  If your PC can handle HBAO Full, use that, if not use SSAO.  

 

I found that in wilderness areas with a lot trees blowing and bending where its physx heavy that assigning Physx to the GPU in the Nvidia control panel instead of auto helps, but that just may be my PC setup.

 

Turn off the Origin running in game.

 

Yes, HBAO (the middle option) is kinda funky with DX11 and shows some banding in grass, but works 100% with Mantle (no banding or other artifacts, just beautiful). So with Mantle, HBAO looks beautiful - in fact all visual FX look better with Mantle in this game. The DX11 support is either buggy or DX11 is buggy. 

 

Also there is no Physx support in DA:I (Frostbite 3 doesn't do Physx) so I can't imagine why messing around with the nvidia control panel helps, but hey. 

[Aaleel]

I don't like the gating you propose. The whole point of having an open world is so we can go where we like for no reason at all.

A much simpler sosolution would be to give the entire game a much shallower power curve. Like BG1, where we only ever got to level 8.

 

It already does in a way.  It makes you have to spend power points to gain access to areas, build bridges, investigate areas.  I don't see how this would be any different, the game just gives you power points way too fast so that you're able to unlock everything all at once.

 

But my main thing is that looted gear and merchant bought gear have level requirements, but you can craft something as good or better at a lower level.  I mean they have a dog selling high level schematics and making change for goodness sake  .  You don't even need the Inquisitor perks to get access to them, just made things too easy IMHO.

[Lebanese Dude]

 It makes you have to spend power points to gain access to areas, build bridges, investigate areas.  I don't see how this would be any different, the game just gives you power points way too fast so that you're able to unlock everything all at once.

 

I actually agree on this point.

 

The current power costs take into account players that do not complete anything but the main and a couple of optional quests, but this renders most costs to be irrelevant for those who do a minimal amount of exploration.

 

One way to increase the significance of power beyond increasing power costs is additional gating to some zones that can also have the side-benefit of assisting casual players in maneuvering the world. Perhaps make those extra zones require obscene amounts of power?

 

Gating isn't a perfect solution though.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It already does in a way.  It makes you have to spend power points to gain access to areas, build bridges, investigate areas.  I don't see how this would be any different, the game just gives you power points way too fast so that you're able to unlock everything all at once.

I think it's important that players be allowed to visit these areas in any order.  But what that means in Inquisition is that, if the player unlocks high level zones, he might be left with nowhere left to go without getting killed.  So he needs access to extra Power in order to unlock more zones in order to ensure that he'll have access to level-appropriate zones.

 

I really like how Inquisition works on this point.  I wouldn't want BioWare to ruin it.

[CronoDragoon]

I actually agree on this point.
 
The current power costs take into account players that do not complete anything but the main and a couple of optional quests, but this renders most costs to be irrelevant for those who do a minimal amount of exploration.
 
One way to increase the significance of power beyond increasing power costs is additional gating to some zones that can also have the side-benefit of assisting casual players in maneuvering the world. Perhaps make those extra zones require obscene amounts of power?
 
Gating isn't a perfect solution though.

You could offer Power as a means to reduce War Table mission times. In practice, it would mean trading Power for faster Influence, which both makes sense on a story level and also leads to being able to Perk up quicker and spend more of the game using more Perks.