70 réponses à ce sujet

[themageguy]

Siding with Templars as a pro circle loyalist mage has been ultimately rewarding so far.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Siding with Templars as a pro circle loyalist mage has been ultimately rewarding so far.

I laugh out loud when I hear about someone playing a pro-circle mage. Would you support your inquisitor going back to a circle and never leaving?

[Ryzaki]

I laugh out loud when I hear about someone playing a pro-circle mage. Would you support your inquisitor going back to a circle and never leaving?

 

Considering you can start the game as a pro-circle mage Im not sure what the lulz is for.

 

Plus you do realize mages are given leave to leave? Your PC can even be as such. (Indeed my mage Trevelyan often spent time at home).

 

I get that you're anti-circle but do try to expand your horizons and realize people do play differently.

 

(Not to mention I have played characters who would've been glad to go back to the circle instead of the hassle of dealing with a bunch of religious fanatics trying to kill them and fighting demons all the damn time).

[thesuperdarkone2]

Considering you can start the game as a pro-circle mage Im not sure what the lulz is for.

 

Plus you do realize mages are given leave to leave? Your PC can even be as such. (Indeed my mage Trevelyan often spent time at home).

 

I get that you're anti-circle but do try to expand your horizons and realize people do play differently.

 

(Not to mention I have played characters who would've been glad to go back to the circle instead of the hassle of dealing with a bunch of religious fanatics trying to kill them and fighting demons all the damn time).

You play as a circle mage, not a pro-circle mage. It's entirely possible to play as a mage that hated being locked up and gladly supported the rebellion. I find it funny since people are willing to put mages back in circles yet are never willing to put their mages in circles.

[Ryzaki]

You play as a circle mage, not a pro-circle mage. It's entirely possible to play as a mage that hated being locked up and gladly supported the rebellion. I find it funny since people are willing to put mages back in circles yet are never willing to put their mages in circles.

 

I said you can do note the difference. You can play a mage who gladly supported the rebellion. You can also play one who did not. That's the beauty of choice. So yes as I said one can start the game as a pro-circle mage.

 

Honestly my mage would've gladly gone back to a circle rather than continue to get her hands soaked in blood killing numerous people and risking her life everyday facing untold horrors. Alas that's not an option. I have other mages who'd die before they'd go back into a circle. Different characters, different personalities, different choices.

[themageguy]

You play as a circle mage, not a pro-circle mage. It's entirely possible to play as a mage that hated being locked up and gladly supported the rebellion. I find it funny since people are willing to put mages back in circles yet are never willing to put their mages in circles.

You should play it. Many others here on this forum have agreed its been an oddly rewarding character.

Also as a Trevelyan, you are accustomed to certain privileges within the circle due to you noble background.

As for not being put back into the circle, as Inquisitor, you place is now within the Inquisition so i doubt the Divine or your peers would allow someone who saved everyone to return to a circle - thought that was obvious.

This character is also going to try Vivienne in as Divine.

And, the reason why i chose to do this particular loyalist character, was as a means to explore options I wouldn't normally consider. In all previous games, i have always sided with mages.

However, inquisition this time around has been able to provide a game where a loyalist is a valid option if one chooses to pursue it.

And the missions are great, and I've even gotten missions with both Knight Enchanters and Templars on the war table and it enriches such a play through.

So no need to be snippy, its MY character, not yours.

[Andres Hendrix]

I said you can do note the difference. You can play a mage who gladly supported the rebellion. You can also play one who did not. That's the beauty of choice. So yes as I said one can start the game as a pro-circle mage.

 

Honestly my mage would've gladly gone back to a circle rather than continue to get her hands soaked in blood killing numerous people and risking her life everyday facing untold horrors. Alas that's not an option. I have other mages who'd die before they'd go back into a circle. Different characters, different personalities, different choices.

 I would want the circle as a purely educational institution, and the Templers as a police force inside the community (instead of prison guards in a tower). Therefore, mages can stay within the community with mundane people, thus allowing both to continue to socialize together. An institution is just asking for trouble when it separates people from their families and the rest of society, then hangs the right to commit ‘ethnic cleansing’ (right of annulment) and lobotomy (tranquility) over the heads of those people. It creates a sub culture; sub cultures have a tendency to make the status quo uneasy, especially if a religion treats (in this case) the mages as its profane aspect. Hence, why I cannot be pro chantry circle.

 As far as I know not too many mages get leaves of absence, it is quite rare.If mages could leave so often,  It would make Wynn’s story concerning her loss of independence and accepting her lot in life (quite stoically) as moot. When Fynn (in Witch Hunt) left the circle on leave, it was at the bidding of the Warden Commander, for what was deemed a very important mission.

[themageguy]

I said you can do note the difference. You can play a mage who gladly supported the rebellion. You can also play one who did not. That's the beauty of choice. So yes as I said one can start the game as a pro-circle mage.

Honestly my mage would've gladly gone back to a circle rather than continue to get her hands soaked in blood killing numerous people and risking her life everyday facing untold horrors. Alas that's not an option. I have other mages who'd die before they'd go back into a circle. Different characters, different personalities, different choices.

Thankyou

[Ryzaki]

 I would want the circle as a purely educational institution, and the Templers as a police force inside the community (instead of prison guards in a tower). Therefore, mages can stay within the community with mundane people, thus allowing both to continue to socialize together. An institution is just asking for trouble when it separates people from their families and the rest of society, then hangs the right to commit ‘ethnic cleansing’ (right of annulment) and lobotomy (tranquility) over the heads of those people. It creates a sub culture; sub cultures have a tendency to make the status quo uneasy, especially if a religion treats (in this case) the mages as its profane aspect. Hence, why I cannot be pro chantry circle.

 As far as I know not too many mages get leaves of absence, it is quite rare.If mages could leave so often,  It would make Wynn’s story concerning her loss of independence and accepting her lot in life (quite stoically) as moot. When Fynn (in Witch Hunt) left the circle on leave, it was at the bidding of the Warden Commander, for what was deemed a very important mission.

 

Which is fine for you. As I said different characters, different personalities different choices. I don't believe mages staying within communities of mundane would remain unhostile for long. As for the right of annulment and tranquility I'm in support of both those things. However they should be strictly regulated and a last resort.

 

Considering all you need to get a leave of abscene is the approval of the first enchanter it probably depends on the mage's relationship with his/her FE. Of course a mage inclined to flee the first chance he/she gets isn't going to be allowed to leave. The FE is making a judgement call on trustworthy mages. However mages are allowed to leave (primarily nobility and those who gain influence and status the way Vivienne did.) (This is why I really wish we had a CE mage. So I could see if the leave was restricted to nobility/favorites. Alas).

[Andres Hendrix]

Which is fine for you. As I said different characters, different personalities different choices. I don't believe mages staying within communities of mundane would remain unhostile for long. As for the right of annulment and tranquility I'm in support of both those things. However they should be strictly regulated and a last resort.

 

Considering all you need to get a leave of abscene is the approval of the first enchanter it probably depends on the mage's relationship with his/her FE. Of course a mage inclined to flee the first chance he/she gets isn't going to be allowed to leave. The FE is making a judgement call on trustworthy mages. However mages are allowed to leave (primarily nobility and those who gain influence and status the way Vivienne did.) (This is why I really wish we had a CE mage. So I could see if the leave was restricted to nobility/favorites. Alas).

 Are you willing to attest that Wynn's story is moot? If Vivienne  gets to leave unaccompanied because of her nobilty then that is an issue of systemic inequality within the circle.
 

It is not about making mages non-hostile, they are people; it is about having a more accepting society, which means a less fearfull society which means less 'sectarian hostilities'. Mages are given this dellusion, a veneer of educated surroundings in their heavily monitored 'sub culture', while a large chunk of segregated Thedaian society gets sermons that resemble Easter sermons (that centered around that one bloody line from the gospel of John)that preceded  pogroms in Russia. The Templars are a sectarian group that has its head full of religious non-sense. They are told that they have the divine right and authority, a ‘revealed truth’ from their god to kill an entire group of people if they deem it "necessary." The main problem is this, Thedas (Ferelden, Free Marches, Orlais) is terrified of mages, and Institutions built on fear  spill blood at the drop of a pin. That is why I say, reform the Templars as a police force, so that Mages can be more normal within society instead of something profane locked in a fancy tower, as the chantry enforced for years and years. As for ethnic cleansing and lobotomy, anyone with an ethical acumean should find them unpardonable. Esspecialy the right of annulmeant becuase it does not discriminate between mage and abomination --Templars are fine with murder as long as their Thecoracy says its ok.

[Ryzaki]

 Are you willing to attest that Wynn's story is moot? If Vivienne  gets to leave unaccompanied because of her nobilty then that is an issue of systemic inequality within the circle.
 

It is not about making mages non-hostile, they are people; it is about having a more accepting society, which means a less fearfull society which means less 'sectarian hostilities'. Mages are given this dellusion, a veneer of educated surroundings in their heavily monitored 'sub culture', while a large chunk of segregated Thedaian society gets sermons that resemble Easter sermons (that centered around that one bloody line from the gospel of John)that preceded  pogroms in Russia. The Templars are a sectarian group that has its head full of religious non-sense. They are told that they have the divine right and authority, a ‘revealed truth’ from their god to kill an entire group of people if they deem it "necessary." The main problem is this, Thedas (Ferelden, Free Marches, Orlais) is terrified of mages, and Institutions built on fear  spill blood at the drop of a pin. That is why I say, reform the Templars as a police force, so that Mages can be more normal within society instead of something profane locked in a fancy tower, as the chantry enforced for years and years. As for ethnic cleansing and lobotomy, anyone with an ethical acumean should find them unpardonable. Esspecialy the right of annulmeant becuase it does not discriminate between mage and abomination --Templars are fine with murder as long as their Thecoracy says its ok.

 

Vivienne is not nobility. That's made quite clear. It's the first enchanter's permission that allows you to leave. How you get that can be in multiple ways either by being particularly trustworthy, favored or in the case of nobility greasing palms. You bring up Wynne but ignore that she did get permission to leave by Irving in DAO.

 

Again one of the first things you can ask Irving in DAO is "when can I go outside." he doesn't go "never" he goes "we'll talk about this later." (probably because the PC is favored by him and trustworthy to him thus one of the mages who would've been given permission to go outside the circle for a trip.)

 

Yeah that's all great for your character. Mine feels differently. And I'm not in the mood to rehash another mage vs templar debate so I'll leave that as it is. *shrug*

[Kulyok]

To the OP's question: I think the templar route is worth doing at least once - mostly for the Altar of Dumat quest and Calpernia story afterwards. Personally, I think it's not half as cool as going to the future, and they could have made that quest much more interesting(because a demon replacing you, while you could only watch? extremely fascinating, but it doesn't really play out in the game). But once is worth it.

 

As for the Divine outcome, if you conscript the Templars, support mage freedom and maybe support Briala, I think you're firmly going Leliana's route. And, of course, there's always Vivienne route if you ally with the Templars and support Vivienne.

[Urzon]

In theory, yeah.

Spoiler

But while you were busy forcing one side to work for you, the other was corrupted and now fights for the bad guys.

It's truly a pity we couldn't save both. If only...

Spoiler

They added something like a special magical spell that could teleport the user(s) either back or forward in time. It would have probably be even more useful if the Inquisitor could recruit someone knowledgeable on the spell to help him/her use it, or better yet have the inventor of the spell in some sort of predicament in which his/her fate is in the Inquisitor's hands alone, and the Inquisitor could compel them to help his/her cause in such a way.

If only all those stars could have aligned and given us the possibility. Oh wait...

[themageguy]

To the OP's question: I think the templar route is worth doing at least once - mostly for the Altar of Dumat quest and Calpernia story afterwards. Personally, I think it's not half as cool as going to the future, and they could have made that quest much more interesting(because a demon replacing you, while you could only watch? extremely fascinating, but it doesn't really play out in the game). But once is worth it.

As for the Divine outcome, if you conscript the Templars, support mage freedom and maybe support Briala, I think you're firmly going Leliana's route. And, of course, there's always Vivienne route if you ally with the Templars and support Vivienne.

Hell yes! The temple of Dumat was a great quest.

[Dean_the_Young]

I laugh out loud when I hear about someone playing a pro-circle mage. Would you support your inquisitor going back to a circle and never leaving?

 

Why not, when a pro-Circle mage can also support three different reformist mages who all increase freedoms and seek to mitigate various ills of the system?

[Dean_the_Young]

You play as a circle mage, not a pro-circle mage. It's entirely possible to play as a mage that hated being locked up and gladly supported the rebellion. I find it funny since people are willing to put mages back in circles yet are never willing to put their mages in circles.

 

I'm not? Since when?

 

I'm glad you have such mind reading powers that you can perceive things I was never aware of. That's pretty impressive. Have you thought about using that power for good in real life?

[Dean_the_Young]

Yes it does. Apparently siding with the Templars makes it more likely that Cass will become Divine regardless of whether you ally or conscript them. 

 

Only a little bit. There's no single dominant choice in the Divine point game- it's an aggregate of many things, easily within the ability to overcome the Mage/Templar recruitment choice.
 

[sch1986]

What if you make all three work together?

I got Vivienne as divine in my playthrough:

Ally with Templars
Make Celene, Gaspard, and Briala work together
Encourage Cassandra to rebuild seekers and did not encourage anything related to her being divine
Did not vocally support Vivienne to become divine, but did do her "support Vivienne" for divine mission
Let the grey wardens stay (not sure if this has bearing or not)

As far as chantry related dialogue goes- it's kind of strange because I wasn't pro-chantry at all. I was pro Dalish. I think my refusal to really pick a side in chantry related matters (yes chantry is good or no chantry is bad) is what pushed Vivienne for divine since she mostly wants things to go back to the way they were (neutral) while Leliana and Cassandra support change in some degree.

Basically refused being the Herald, didn't believe in maker only elvhen gods, etc. I don't recall any specific situation where my PC commented oh circles and Templars bad. Because he was always just like: the Dalish do it this way.

Anyway- it's definitely possible to not get Cassandra as divine and choose the Templar side. (As a matter of fact, when I allied with mages I ended up with Cassandra, so this single decision I think has very little bearing on the overall outcome.)

[zestalyn]

Also as a Trevelyan, you are accustomed to certain privileges within the circle due to you noble background.
 

 

Where did you get this? It had been specifically stated that nobles are stripped of their titles, privileges, and claims to property upon entering the Circle, because everyone, human or elf, noble or peasant, is made an equal  prisoner of the Chantry Circle mage.

[Ryzaki]

Where did you get this? It had been specifically stated that nobles are stripped of their titles, privileges, and claims to property upon entering the Circle, because everyone, human or elf, noble or peasant, is made an equal  prisoner of the Chantry Circle mage.

 

Talk to Josephine as a noble mage. She flat out says they get privileges because of their nobility.

 

You can even remark on how you went home often so you wouldn't be a stranger or how the money made being in the circle easier.

[Andres Hendrix]

Vivienne is not nobility. That's made quite clear. It's the first enchanter's permission that allows you to leave. How you get that can be in multiple ways either by being particularly trustworthy, favored or in the case of nobility greasing palms. You bring up Wynne but ignore that she did get permission to leave by Irving in DAO.

 

Again one of the first things you can ask Irving in DAO is "when can I go outside." he doesn't go "never" he goes "we'll talk about this later." (probably because the PC is favored by him and trustworthy to him thus one of the mages who would've been given permission to go outside the circle for a trip.)

 

Yeah that's all great for your character. Mine feels differently. And I'm not in the mood to rehash another mage vs templar debate so I'll leave that as it is. *shrug*

You brought up Vivienne's prestige, not me. I simply said that if status or class plays a role, then that is an issue of inequality within the circle. Wynn leaving was due to special circumsatnces. e.g. the fifth blight. You blatently flee from the rest of what I wrote, can't say that I'm surprised.

[Ryzaki]

You brought up Vivienne's prestige, not me. I simply said that if stauts or class plays a role, then that is an issue of inequality within the circle. Wynn leaving was due to special circumsatnces. e.g. the fifth blight. You blatently flee from the rest of what I wrote, can't say that I'm surprised.

 

I said as I always said the ability is given by the first enchanter. You can say circumstances all you like but that's exactly who Wynne got her permission from. Both Vivienne and Wynne prove this. Finn proves it as well.

 

And sorry but no I'm not going into the rabbit hole that is "but but mage freedom!" again so you can take that anyway you like I have zero interest in that discussion you take it up with someone who can be bothered with the wall of text back and forth.

[Andres Hendrix]

I said as I always said the ability is given by the first enchanter. You can say circumstances all you like but that's exactly who Wynne got her permission from. Both Vivienne and Wynne prove this. Finn proves it as well.

 

And sorry but no I'm not going into the rabbit hole that is "but but mage freedom!" again so you can take that anyway you like I have zero interest in that discussion you take it up with someone who can be bothered with the wall of text back and forth.

And what you have "always been saying" is fatuous, the first enchanter's reach goes as far as the Templers will allow his leash to stretch. That reach is fickle, and at any time it can be tightened so much as to break his or her neck. I don't believe I ever said "but, but mage freedom," your strawman is indicative of someone who has no idea what an argument is and instead tries to flee or change the subject. What I see in what you write is a far right crackpot strain, one that exudes a fear of autonomous people,  and prefers  the sterile embrace,  the false consolation of theocracy.

[Violetbliss]

I think each circle tower has slightly different rules. I mean, the one in Ferelden seems to have been incredibly different from the Montsimmard one.

 

Anyway, I have yet to do this. I just really dislike templars, due to how lyrium seems to impact their general behavior at times, as well as how destructive it is to use it. The mages have their problems too, but for me, tif there is a choice to be made it'll be them. At some point I will do the templar arc for completionism/rp though.

[Ryzaki]

And what you have "always been saying" is fatuous, the first enchanter's reach goes as far as the Templers will allow his leash to stretch. That reach is fickle, and at any time it can be tightened so much as to break his or her neck. I don't believe I ever said "but, but mage freedom," your strawman is indicative of someone who has no idea what an argument is and instead tries to flee or change the subject. What I see in what you write is a far right crackpot strain, one that exudes a fear of autonomous people,  and prefers  the sterile embrace,  the false consolation of theocracy.

 

The first enchanter and the knight commander do have authority in the circle yes. And yes it can be tightened and lengthened. When did I say otherwise? That doesn't change anything of what I said. They all go permission from the first enchanter.

 

You know what. NVM. Welcome to ignore. I see by the bolded exactly where this is going. Don't know why I bothered.