262 réponses à ce sujet

[TK514]

It doesn't make sense because in case of siding with mages every single person in south owes their lives to mages. Not to mention Leliana has her seekers. Seekers + Inquisiton + Mages cooperating are more than enough to handle any magical incident.

Hardly.  Regardless of who you side with, mages, as a group, are seen as responsible for blowing a hole in reality, starting a war that saw innocent people in the Hinterlands ravaged, and getting Redcliffe taken over by Tevinter Magisters.  Yes, they find some redemption if they assist in closing the Breach, but that's hardly going to sway people who hold them responsible to begin with.

 

Plus, we still have a thousand years of anti-mage bias that has completely shaped the cultures of Southern Thedas.  That's not going to just 'go away', regardless of how much good mages may or may not have done during a magical crisis that threatened the world.  And even if most mages are kind and benevolent, all it takes is one or two like the idiots running rampant through the Hinterlands proclaiming their superiority and throwing around fireballs to sour relations with a population already predisposed to view them with fear and hatred (and that doesn't even start to address the common view when little Timmy sneezes and burns down the farm).

 

All it would take is a group of folks unwilling to accept the College of Enchanters (or the new Inquisition) as an unbiased arbitrator of magical justice and some disgruntled former Templars and you've got yourself a nice group of anti-mage vigilanties rolling around Thedas stirring up trouble and dispensing their own take on appropriate measures.

[Hazegurl]

o.o I think Tevinter is better off never being done.

Idk, The moment Solas and Dorian tell Abelas that elves in Tevinter could use him. I was pretty certain that it's a set up to the next game heading there and perhaps a possibility of Abelas as a companion. Mind you, Abelas as a companion is just my wishful thinking as I know he can be killed. But hey...is his death the will of Mythal?  

[Lulupab]

Hardly.  Regardless of who you side with, mages, as a group, are seen as responsible for blowing a hole in reality, starting a war that saw innocent people in the Hinterlands ravaged, and getting Redcliffe taken over by Tevinter Magisters.  Yes, they find some redemption if they assist in closing the Breach, but that's hardly going to sway people who hold them responsible to begin with.

First the whole was made by Corypheus
Second Redceliff was raided by Templars and the majority of death toll were the people of redcliff
Third The mages didn't just close the breach. They fought Corypheus, protected people from Red Templars who were using people as red Lyrium mines, They stopped a demon army, and everything else the Inquisition did. Mages and Templars based on who you side with form the majority of the armies of Inquisition.
 

Plus, we still have a thousand years of anti-mage bias that has completely shaped the cultures of Southern Thedas.  That's not going to just 'go away', regardless of how much good mages may or may not have done during a magical crisis that threatened the world. And even if most mages are kind and benevolent, all it takes is one or two like the idiots running rampant through the Hinterlands proclaiming their superiority and throwing around fireballs to sour relations with a population already predisposed to view them with fear and hatred (and that doesn't even start to address the common view when little Timmy sneezes and burns down the farm).

People listened to Justinia when she said Mages are not to be blamed for starting the war, or you'd have people killing mages all over. People put the word of the divine above everything else. Now Leliana is divine and she will tell them the same. The Witch burning and heaven selling which lasted for centuries was dissolved and went away forever in mere 50 years of renaissance. If anything people will know that circles spectacularly failed and Templars were corrupt to the core, controlled by another corrupt group (Seekers). This disaster wakes people up, if nothing else. And if they are going to rebel they will do so if old systems come back, see Vivienne as Divine who gets one rebellion after another, no one is happy with her nor her reforms aka going back to the old system.
 

All it would take is a group of folks unwilling to accept the College of Enchanters (or the new Inquisition) as an unbiased arbitrator of magical justice and some disgruntled former Templars and you've got yourself a nice group of anti-mage vigilanties rolling around Thedas stirring up trouble and dispensing their own take on appropriate measures.

Leliana is immediately going to get the support of common people. The first thing she does is helping the helpless, poor and those who are oppressed. She turns chantry into a charity, offering actual aid unlike the previous chantry that offered nothing but palliatives and superstition "side of the maker when you die". Do you think they will turn against their savior over some skittish tarts who think all mages are to be blamed for crimes of very few? Specially after closest people to them were saved by mages from becoming living Lyrium mines? Please find a proof for your pure speculations, hyperbole and headcanons because all you do now is rant without anything to back it up.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LoL haha and who corrypheus was please? Mage pretty much mages were mega hated after kirkwall already not mention after damage they caused during their war including mage rebelion selling redcliff to tevinter what enraged even alistair who was supporting mages and kicked them out not to mention other nobles in ferelden.

 

Mages reputation after that would be worse than Hitler and not amount of talking would change that especially that leliana solution pretty much opens a lot mages caused disasters that will strike people and i doubt they will accept rampages caused by mages just because leliana does charity work because there is no godamn amount of charity work that would me accept my city being blown up and i doubt it is different with other people.

 

And complete BS on your part because viviene rebellions aren't because she didn't reform anything (apart from perhaps mage rebelion) but only because she is mage what completely pissed people what also support things im saying.It seems you like modify things on your benefit even when they are cleary not true.

[Lulupab]

Just stop it TKS. 4 years and you advocate the same things without a tiny improvement in your grammar or ability to respond to arguments. People with "ideas" like yours are the ones that Leliana kills and thankfully they are a rarity.

 

I think you notice how people usually ignore your posts.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Just stop it TKS. 4 years and you advocate the same things without a tiny improvement in your grammar or ability to respond to arguments. People with "ideas" like yours are the ones that Leliana kills and thankfully they are a rarity.

LoL and this is from person that is spreading outright lies to reinforce own opinion.

[Lulupab]

LoL and this is from person that is spreading outright lies to reinforce own opinion.

 

Lie? Please. Its clear as day in front of you on the epilogue. You are the party who need to provide proof because the the COLLEGE IS WORKING. You cannot foresee the future so if there is any lie here its being said by you.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lie? Please. Its clear as day in front of you on the epilogue. You are the party who need to provide proof because the the COLLEGE IS WORKING. You cannot foresee the future so if there is any lie here its being said by you.

Nice dodge pal but you realize that 3 posts above i pretty much pointed lie about viviene epilogue that you tried to use to reinforce your opinion and this is not first time you are doing such thing with "divine epilogues" .

 

DG or any other dev can write scenario where leliana creates utopia and thedas is forever covered in flowers and love it won't make it realistic or even plausible scenario.

[Lulupab]

Nice dodge pal but you realize that 3 posts above i pretty much pointed lie about viviene epilogue that you tried to use to reinforce your opinion and this is not first time you are doing such thing "divine epilogues" .

 

Vivienne gets 3 rebellions in succession. There is no information about it other than mages in the circles joined these rebellions. So you cannot claim there were not people who didn't want the old system back. 

 

You actually dodged the fact that you cannot deny what Leliana's epilogue says. You need to deal with it because this is getting very amusing, you're succumbing to "because I said so" reasoning.

[Colonelkillabee]

Just stop it TKS. 4 years and you advocate the same things without a tiny improvement in your grammar or ability to respond to arguments. People with "ideas" like yours are the ones that Leliana kills and thankfully they are a rarity.

 

I think you notice how people usually ignore your posts.

LOL that wasn't very nice

 

It was funny tho.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Vivienne gets 3 rebellions in succession. There is no information about it other than mages in the circles joined these rebellions. So you cannot claim there were not people who didn't want the old system back. 

 

You actually dodged the fact that you cannot deny what Leliana's epilogue says. You need to deal with it because this is getting very amusing, you're succumbing to "because I said so" reasoning.

Love like you continue going with your lie.Pretty much rebelions are caused by fact her being mage it practically it is followed by that fact it wasn't taken well.Mage rebelion is completely separate epilogue that concernes mages not chantry and divine.

 

And im not denaying what it says im saying that what is says is utterly ridiculous and unrealistic there is big difference so please stop now spreading lies about what im saying.

 

Love how im bad guy but you lying here about epilogue or what i have said trying make look me bad.

[raging_monkey]

LOL that wasn't very nice
 
It was funny tho.

this is the bsn. Extremist, nutjobs, idealist and full of wiseasses... who said we were nice lol XD

[Colonelkillabee]

this is the bsn. Extremist, nutjobs, idealist and full of wiseasses... who said we were nice lol XD

Nutjobs and idealists I've noticed especially.

 

Me: "The elves did start this war!"

 

You know who: "Yea so lets kill 'em all n' rape their babies! They deserve it!"

 

Me: "Yea an- wait..."

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[raging_monkey]

Nutjobs and idealists I've noticed especially.
 
Me: "The elves did start this war!"
 
You know who: "Yea so lets kill 'em all n' rape their babies! They deserve it!"
 
Me: "Yea an- wait..."
 

Spoiler

 

so f*cking true at this point.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Nutjobs and idealists I've noticed especially.

 

Me: "The elves did start this war!"

 

You know who: "Yea so lets kill 'em all n' rape their babies! They deserve it!"

 

Me: "Yea an- wait..."

 

Spoiler

 

I hope "you know who" isn't my person because im already getting credit for a lot things i didn't say but this forum thinks i have said.

[Colonelkillabee]

I hope "you know who" isn't my person because im already getting credit for a lot things i didn't say but this forum thinks i have said.

It wasn't. I don't even know you, lol.

[Lulupab]

There are hopeless idealists then there are Martin Luther kings Anne Franks or Rosa Parks or Gandhis etc.... The fact that you can now sit with your device and complain about idealism is a point that the rest of us are missing, from our very comfortable positions in life: being able to take the high road and condemn idealists in video games, sometimes, not recognized for what it is: a luxury that we would NOT HAVE if not for those real life idealists giving the rest of the world something to rally around. They are pretty much the reason you are not spamming "hail big brother" right now.

[raging_monkey]

There are hopeless idealists then there are Martin Luther kings Anne Franks or Rosa Parks or Gandhis etc.... The fact that you can now sit with your device and complain about idealism is a point that the rest of us are missing, from our very comfortable positions in life: being able to take the high road and condemn idealists in video games, sometimes, not recognized for what it is: a luxury that we would NOT HAVE if not for those real life idealists giving the rest of the world something to rally around. They are pretty much the reason you are not spamming "hail big brother" right now.

did i say idealism was bad? I simply gave a catigorization of fans hehe

[TheKomandorShepard]

It wasn't. I don't even know you, lol.

Well good i thought i will get just another thing others will accuse me i have said despite i didn't.

[Colonelkillabee]

There are hopeless idealists then there are Martin Luther kings Anne Franks or Rosa Parks or Gandhis etc.... The fact that you can now sit with your device and complain about idealism is a point that the rest of us are missing, from our very comfortable positions in life: being able to take the high road and condemn idealists in video games, sometimes, not recognized for what it is: a luxury that we would NOT HAVE if not for those real life idealists giving the rest of the world something to rally around. They are pretty much the reason you are not spamming "hail big brother" right now.

 

 

It's really got nothing to do with that at all. Martin luther king's idealism was something very simple, only blocked because of ignorance.

 

Mages aren't black people. Black people don't turn into monsters, even by a very small chance. It's not at all the same thing, or I'd be completely on the mage's side, rather than somewhere in the middle between the chantry and mage's view.

 

Not the templars tho. **** the templars, said it with Divine authority.

[Colonelkillabee]

Well good i thought i will get just another thing others will accuse me i have said despite i didn't.

Na, I've had enough of that myself with that SJW dude claiming I was spreading hate. LOL

[Lulupab]

It's really got nothing to do with that at all. Martin luther king's idealism was something very simple, only blocked because of ignorance.

 

Mages aren't black people. Black people don't turn into monsters, even by a very small chance. It's not at all the same thing, or I'd be completely on the mage's side, rather than somewhere in the middle between the chantry and mage's view.

 

Not the templars tho. **** the templars, said it with Divine authority.

 

I will only accept the paranoia against mages when nobles are kept in check as well. I have proved over and over that political power is more dangerous than magical power. We blame the darkspawn on magic but no, crazy magisters had enough political power to gather tons of Lyrium, thousands of blood sacrifices etc... to be able to enter he fade physically. The magic was merely a tool, abused political power unleashed darkspawn, not magic. 

 

Also we never really tried with southern mages, we hunted them down first before sticking them in a tower aka mages never failed because they were never tested to begin with. The circles failed not the mages.

[Master Warder Z_]

It doesn't make sense because in case of siding with mages every single person in south owes their lives to mages. Not to mention Leliana has her seekers. Seekers + Inquisiton + Mages cooperating are more than enough to handle any magical incident.

You say that and then something comes along.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I will only accept the paranoia against mages when nobles are kept in check as well. I have proved over and over that political power is more dangerous than magical power. We blame the darkspawn on magic but no, crazy magisters had enough political power to gather tons of Lyrium, thousands of blood sacrifices etc... to be able to enter he fade physically. The magic was merely a tool, abused political power unleashed darkspawn, not magic. 

 

Also we never really tried with southern mages, we hunted them down first before sticking them in a tower aka mages never failed because they were never tested to begin with. The circles failed not the mages.

Oh you proved that nobles can blow up entire world or are threat for entire world so perhaps you will share with your discovery when nobles were even close to doing such thing because i can point good portion of mages that were?

[Colonelkillabee]

Snip

Lol no one's born a politician. Thank God. No one but mages are born with any sort of power or...

 

You know, I'm not going to get into this conversation as I honestly don't see the merit. Yes, the chantry's approach originally is fucked, yes the old way didn't work, but as I said, that doesn't change the fact that you've got people born with this innate danger. Just like with political power, checks and balances are needed. You don't need to make a case for Leliana's checks and balances, I remember your previous arguments still.

 

The idealism I oppose isn't the kind that says everyone should be able to ride on the boat. The kind I oppose is we should save all the people who are stuck in the water, even though doing so will make our ship sink, and everyone dies instead of some.

 

The mage issue isn't just a social issue like racism, but one of safety as well. Which you know. I wasn't talking about you anyway when I mentioned idealists, but the others in the thread saying "Whaaa! Thats mean! What about their feeeelings!"