262 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

We can always keep the sacrificed liberty to a minimum.

We are. The Circle is the minimum for mages.

[Lulupab]

I said she is compassionate and have proven it ( at your request ) , i didnt really need to do so because anyone with half a brain could deduct that from talking to her throughout the game .......now i'd love to see you show me how that translates to me being " serious ".

 

Understanding people , those with common sense will get that in her epilogue her reforms must be the first priority then she will build from that.

 

I know that the mage-templar war is over for now , i didnt claim otherwise , it doesnt mean that the devs are done with all chantry related things though and you cant talk Chantry without talking about the Divine , so unless you can prove that they are done with the Chantry as a whole claiming that the epilogues will remained untouched throughout the DLCs and the next game is jumping the gun.

 

I didn't say anything about chantry to begin with, I only said mage Templar issue will be put to rest. Leliana applies her reforms which are more grand than Cassandra's, I mean she disbands the Templars and dissolves the circles, come on! But the first thing she does is rededicating chantry for charity. It says a lot about what she will do for people in need and if actually her epilogue is true and everything happens like stated in epilogue without the players' assumed doom and gloo, its a very good world state.

[Kinsz]

I'm driving, so I can't answer in full, but it doesn't matter how rare it is, if I tell you there's a monster behind one of three doors, or one of 10, you're not going to react very well. If your mother told you that your sister can possibly turn into a monster, you're not going to react very well.

There was one little girl that turned into an abomination at the chateux d'onterre found in the Emerald Grave , Gaspard also mentions another when you first meet with him provided you sided with the mages.

[Lulupab]

We are. The Circle is the minimum for mages.

 

Thank you for your input first enchanter JB because clearly you know the minimum for mages. The existence of a rebellion shows nothing but a maximum.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Again you keep using kirkwall as only place where we saw abomnations what is false we saw a lot of them in ferelden.Dai pretty much ignored abomnations whatsoever in game where pretty much amount of abomnations should be biggest in the series because as far the worst conditions mages faced as far. 

 

Dorian pretty much said also mages love to use blood magic as solution to their problems...

[Lulupab]

And you think those societies would care about your freedom if they tought you were threat (like mages) to their country or society please...

 

95% of mages are not monsters despite your belief so to answer your question, they don't bludgeon a group of people for crimes of very few. A certain group of people are not blamed because other people of same group have bombs. 

[Lulupab]

Again you keep using kirkwall as only place where we saw abomnations what is false we saw a lot of them in ferelden.Dai pretty much ignored abomnations whatsoever in game where pretty much amount of abomnations should be biggest in the series because as far the worst conditions mages faced as far. 

 

Dorian pretty much said also mages love to use blood magic as solution to their problems...

 

Dorian said THERE ARE MAGES who are like that. Huge difference. 

[MisterJB]

Thank you for your input first enchanter JB because clearly you know the minimum for mages. The existence of a rebellion shows nothing but a maximum.

 

Oh please, a spoiled child will throw a tantrum if he is denied the sixth piece of cake and we are supposed to accept the brat is in the right?
 

[TheKomandorShepard]

95% of mages are not monsters despite your belief so to answer your question, they don't bludgeon a group of people for crimes of very few. A certain group of people are not blamed because other people of same group have bombs. 

Of course they aren't monsters they are humans and humans can be easily corrupted especially with personal not political power not mention that mages are highly unstable walking bombs that even just individually are tremendous danger to society , country and even whole world.As we saw we have 1000 reasons where magic can gone wrong for many reasons like simple love (alexius) , revenge (zathrian) ,ambition (uldred) virtually everything can push single mage into creating disaster on huge scale.

 

 

 

Dorian said THERE ARE MAGES who are like that. Huge difference. 

 

Haha even Alexius and Dorian father who were lets change tevinter for better place or blood magic is bleh pretty much went with it when convenient.Sure not everyone will end giving on temptantion but most will when time will test them even those who despise blood magic.

[Kinsz]

I didn't say anything about chantry to begin with, I only said mage Templar issue will be put to rest. Leliana applies her reforms which are more grand than Cassandra's, I mean she disbands the Templars and dissolves the circles, come on! But the first thing she does is rededicating chantry for charity. It says a lot about what she will do for people in need and if actually her epilogue is true and everything happens like stated in epilogue without the players' assumed doom and gloo, its a very good world state.

If the devs are done with mage templar issues then why were you worried that Cassandra reforms might lead to old problems lol ? since according to you those problems wouldnt arise again then why were you concerned at all?  at this point i doubt that even you know what you are saying , thats the thing about arguing for the sake of it you easily lose yourself in the mix of it.

 

Anyways back to the epilogues , why do you keep bringing up the fact that Leliana helps the poor over and over ? you sound like a broken record , i have already stated multiple times that it in fact happened my only argument was that i believe Cassandra will do the same eventually given that its clearly part of her plans ( as shown in the video ) something you cannot disprove , and since we dont know Cassandra as being a liar ill take her words for it.

[Colonelkillabee]

No, there are several codex entries indicating abominations are a rarity. Kirkwall was an exception. This issue is rectified in DA:I as there is only one abomination in future redcliff.

 

What is "extreme" here? Once you enter the province of security over the most basic rights then its over. It doesn't matter how much water is higher than your head, whether its an inch or a mile you still cannot breathe.

 

And what gives you the idea that mages who value their lives will not fight these like anyone else? If anything everyone should be convinced mages want to live safely like everyone else and they will help them in every way they can but without getting stuck in a sodding tower for life. 

K so like I said, it being a "rarity" doesn't much matter, the danger is still there, one that can kill a whole family, or in Connor's case, an entire city.

 

Comparing what I'm saying to the Qunari is what is extreme. Every country has regulations on freedom for safety and security. Many of them are nothing like the Qun, Communists, or any of the like.

 

And I don't think mages should be the primary defense against mages, ever. That defies common sense.

[Lulupab]

Oh please, a spoiled child will throw a tantrum if he is denied the sixth piece of cake and we are supposed to accept the brat is in the right?

 
Seriously? A spoiled brat can be afraid of some people as well, should we bludgeon all of them because of that?  Andraste never wanted this for the mages. In fact she had no problem with any mage who is not from Tevinter being free, they actually helped her against Tevinter.
 
And I'd like you read this codex from DA:I
 
"Whereas the Circle was established not merely to protect the world from mages, but also to allow mages to practice their art safely and without fear and under Lord Seeker Lambert's command, the templars sworn to protect all people - including mages - from the harmful effects of magic, have instead persecuted mages with such biased judgment as to worsen the problems they were meant to mitigate, and the Rite of Tranquility intended as a tool of last resort to stop uncontrolled mages from hurting themselves or others, has instead been used for punitive and political purposes to silence dissent and inhibit civilized discourse, and,
Whereas Andraste herself intended the relationship between mage and templar to be one of practitioner and protector, not prisoner and jailer, and this contract has been broken, leaving mages in fear for their lives from those sworn to protect them,
Now, therefore, the Circle of Magi declares the following:
We, the mages of Ferelden and Orlais, do hereby dissolve the Circles and renounce our sworn submission to the Order of the Templars, effective immediately.
We reiterate Andraste's assertion that magic was made to serve man, not rule over him, and state unequivocally that we will use our abilities only to defend ourselves from those who would see us relinquish our lives and freedoms under the presumption of guilt for crimes we have not committed.
We condemn those practitioners of magic who, through illness of mind or understandable but misguided anger at those who oppressed them, would use their Maker-given powers to threaten innocent lives, and we pledge to aid any legitimate and impartial government in bringing these lawless apostates to justice.
We look earnestly to a future of cooperation between all peoples of Thedas, free from persecution and prejudice, and hope to build a better world alongside all who approach us with friendship instead of fear.

 

In service of Maker and Andraste

The free mages of Thedas."

 

Since this is a letter from all mages, the bold part is what they truly want and we both know its true. Circles failed that.

[Lulupab]

K so like I said, it being a "rarity" doesn't much matter, the danger is still there, one that can kill a whole family, or in Connor's case, an entire city.

 

Comparing what I'm saying to the Qunari is what is extreme. Every country has regulations on freedom for safety and security. Many of them are nothing like the Qun, Communists, or any of the like.

 

And I don't think mages should be the primary defense against mages, ever. That defies common sense.

 

Mages plus seekers you mean since Leliana will reform the Seekers even if Cassandra doesn't.

 

I was merely pointing out that after the recent event its perfect time to try and establish a new institution that mages get taught to control themselves. Of course measures can be taken like how the first enchanter suspected Jowan, but the norm should be mages should learn at academies not prisons. I never said we shouldn't monitor and proceed with caution, but there is a limit. Sticking every single mage in a tower is paranoia and extremism no matter how we try to belittle it.

[MisterJB]

 snip

 

 

There is so many things wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.

1-You have no idea what Andraste wanted.

2-There is no evidence she had a single mage in her army just as there is no evidence that she didn't.

3-That's propaganda.

4-The rebellion won by a vote. Out of the five mages that are not Fiona that you can speak to in Redcliff, three voted against the rebellion.

5-It is 100% irrelevant because my point already was that just because mages want something, it doesn't mean they have good reasons to want it just as a spoiled child will cry if he gets 10 toys rather than eleven for Christmas.

 

[MisterJB]

And I don't think mages should be the primary defense against mages, ever. That defies common sense.

 

Nonsense. The elves of Denerim are perfectly happy with the 100% human force of the city guard.
 

[Colonelkillabee]

Mages plus seekers you mean since Leliana will reform the Seekers even if Cassandra doesn't.

 

I was merely pointing out that after the recent event its perfect time to try and establish a new institution that mages get taught to control themselves. Of course measures can be taken like how the first enchanter suspected Jowan, but the norm should be mages should learn at academies not prisons. I never said we shouldn't monitor and proceed with caution, but there is a limit. Sticking every single mage in a tower is paranoia and extremism no matter how we try to belittle it.

 

Well I've been saying over several posts now that a compromise between a circle and college is what is ideal. However, while they're in the circle acting as a college, I do think it should act as a sort of "prison". In that while they're practicing magic, they should be confined to that place until proven that they can handle themselves. And after their final test, preferably not a harrowing, but some think this is necessary, then they're free to remain or leave.

 

Those that fail don't get tranquilized, they just have to remain until they either get better, or for life within the circle or circles if they want transferring. Seems pretty good to me, even though the taking of children is still a cruel reality. At least it's not forever and they learn how to keep from becoming monsters.

 

And if they do it this way, mages can live happy productive lives in society.

[Mushashi7]

Trust is the hardest thing to give away - it almost always returns.

[Lulupab]

There is so many things wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.

1-You have no idea what Andraste wanted.

2-There is no evidence she had a single mage in her army just as there is no evidence that she didn't.

3-That's propaganda.

4-The rebellion won by a vote. Out of the five mages that are not Fiona that you can speak to in Redcliff, three voted against the rebellion.

5-It is 100% irrelevant because my point already was that just because mages want something, it doesn't mean they have good reasons to want it just as a spoiled child will cry if he gets 10 toys rather than eleven for Christmas.

 

1- You're right, I don't but neither does the chantry and this statement answers your point by itself

2- Tevinter had mage slaves, Tevinter had elven slaves who had mages among them. The chance of her having mages among her armies is much higher than not having them

3- Propaganda according to whom? You? Lambert was corrupt, its pretty much confirmed in DA:I. the Templars have pretty much deviated from their original purpose so did the circles.

4- That letter and codex is found during Inquisition and upon encountering rebel mages, its not written by 5 mages but by all rebel mages

5- and I made a child example of my own. Fears and paranoia of a child are as irrelevant.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Trust is the hardest thing to give away - it almost always returns.

in disney movies only

[Colonelkillabee]

Trust is the hardest thing to give away - it almost always returns.

 

Again with the BS quotes.

[Lulupab]

Well I've been saying over several posts now that a compromise between a circle and college is what is ideal. However, while they're in the circle acting as a college, I do think it should act as a sort of "prison". In that while they're practicing magic, they should be confined to that place until proven that they can handle themselves. And after their final test, preferably not a harrowing, but some think this is necessary, then they're free to remain or leave.

 

Those that fail don't get tranquilized, they just have to remain until they either get better, or for life within the circle or circles if they want transferring. Seems pretty good to me, even though the taking of children is still a cruel reality. At least it's not forever and they learn how to keep from becoming monsters.

 

And if they do it this way, mages can live happy productive lives in society.

 

And for what its worth this might be exactly how the college works since we don't have information about it, only the fact that whatever its, its working.

 

Agreed about children part, but at least in this case the child will have a quite good chance to return, its like sending your child to boarding school or something like that.

[Colonelkillabee]

And for what its worth this might be exactly how the college works since we don't have information about it, only the fact that whatever its, its working.

 

Agreed about children part, but at least in this case the child will have a quite good chance to return, its like sending your child to boarding school or something like that.

If that's how the colleges work, then I'm fine with it. I doubt it though, but more info is needed.

[Lulupab]

Again with the BS quotes.

 

That one is better than most BS quotes though. It always returns, if not now then years later.

[Lulupab]

If that's how the colleges work, then I'm fine with it. I doubt it though, but more info is needed.

 

The only solid information is quote "Mages will govern themselves" and " Its working". BTW mages govern themselves with Cassandra as well which is why I think at least this factor will become canon. Vivienne personally governs the circles but I doubt it will last, that's too much power and responsibility for one person. I think mages governing themselves will become canon and they will retcon Vivienne. But that's just my view of things.

[Colonelkillabee]

That one is better than most BS quotes though. It always returns, if not now then years later.

In my experience, trust is something that once you lose it, never returns. Like virginity, lol.

 

Cheating for instance, something people never get over. Americans can't even get over terrorism even though the people doing it were just a very small minority of assholes who were armed by their very own government.

 

Trust isn't cheap.