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[Versus Omnibus]

He's by far my favorite character in the game; I love the banter he has with Sera and Varric, and he has a voice I bloody wish I had. But I'm a little disappointed that his personal mission was solely based on him being gay. I still remember Bioware complaining about the press focusing solely on Dorian for being gay, but then they make one of his moments in the spotlight be about his dad and Dorian's homosexuality.

 

I would much have prefered it if his personal mission be about a combination of his nationality, magical abilities, and his homosexual then just solely the one thing. Anyone else agree?

[Althix]

you know when people repeat themselfs too many times in order to make sure that others will listen. despite the fact that by repeating this one thing these people are  making fools of themselfs?

this is how BW behave.

Prime example, aside from Dorian, is Krem and Iron Bull's remark about Krem.

 

Basically BW is forcing liberal ideas through their game. And this is so annoying.

[Winged Silver]

you know when people repeat themselfs too many times in order to make sure that others will listen. despite the fact that by repeating this one thing these people are  making fools of themselfs?

this is how BW behave.

Prime example, aside from Dorian, is Krem and Iron Bull's remark about Krem.

 

Basically BW is forcing liberal ideas through their game. And this is so annoying.

Why? I would think that since it's their game, they're allowed to share what they wish to. If anything, I thought they did a really nice job of including liberal ideas without making them sound preachy. They just...were part of the game, which I thought was fantastic.

[Winged Silver]

He's by far my favorite character in the game; I love the banter he has with Sera and Varric, and he has a voice I bloody wish I had. But I'm a little disappointed that his personal mission was solely based on him being gay. I still remember Bioware complaining about the press focusing solely on Dorian for being gay, but then they make one of his moments in the spotlight be about his dad and Dorian's homosexuality.

 

I would much have prefered it if his personal mission be about a combination of his nationality, magical abilities, and his homosexual then just solely the one thing. Anyone else agree?

In a way though, if you pursued his romance arc, it kind of did tie in with Tevinter customs, which I thought was well done. I certainly would never turn down another opportunity to hear his comments on another personal mission, but for what his background was and how it related back to Tevinter, I did think they did a nice job with it. 

[Feranel]

What if Dorian's personal quest was about him being in love with a girl not of noble birth, and he refused to be a "breeder" for his father's legacy with the magically blooded woman they picked out for him, and instead wanted to stay with his true love of non-magical woman of common birth?

 

Would it be an issue?

 

More than half the quest is about Tevinter Magocratic Genetic Selection.

[Andrew Lucas]

What if Dorian's personal quest was about him being in love with a girl not of noble birth, and he refused to be a "breeder" for his father's legacy with the magically blooded woman they picked out for him, and instead wanted to stay with his true love of non-magical common birth?
 
Would it be an issue?
 
More than half the quest is about Tevinter Magocratic Genetic Selection.

This. Hypocrisy is a thing LOL.

[KBomb]

What if Dorian's personal quest was about him being in love with a girl not of noble birth, and he refused to be a "breeder" for his father's legacy with the magically blooded woman they picked out for him, and instead wanted to stay with his true love of non-magical woman of common birth?

Would it be an issue?

More than half the quest is about Tevinter Magocratic Genetic Selection.

I think you hit the nail in the head with that question. Although, to satisfy most of the BSN, they would have to have the option to kill his female love interest.

[Althix]

 without making them sound preachy.

 i made an example with Iron Bull and Krem for a reason. if you fail to remember this scene i suggest you to replay it. Because this is where you get this feeling about liberal ideas being showed down your throat whatever you like it or not.

[Han Shot First]

I thought Dorian's content was very well-handled.

 

The bit with Krem & the Iron Bull was a little ham-fisted though. 

[Precursor Meta]

You can look at the quest that way, but I didn't see it that way.

Dorian's explains to you how the upper class houses in the Tevinter Imperium works. They like to pair people with specific traits in order to have the perfect heir. Like pair a man with strong magic genes with a woman with strong magic genes to have a child with said genes.

The perfect specimen, as Dorian would say.

Now Papa Pavus seems that his big complaint with Dorian is that he's gay, but I don't see that as the only plausible reason. Dorian could've been in love with a woman that didn't have any strong ties to magic, and I'm sure papa Pavus would be just as unaccepting of that.

Dorian just happens to be gay.

[Versus Omnibus]

In a way though, if you pursued his romance arc, it kind of did tie in with Tevinter customs, which I thought was well done. I certainly would never turn down another opportunity to hear his comments on another personal mission, but for what his background was and how it related back to Tevinter, I did think they did a nice job with it. 

 

 

You can look at the quest that way, but I didn't see it that way.

Dorian's explains to you how the upper class houses in the Tevinter Imperium works. They like to pair people with specific traits in order to have the perfect heir. Like pair a man with strong magic genes with a woman with strong magic genes to have a child with said genes.

The perfect specimen, as Dorian would say.

Now Papa Pavus seems that his big complaint with Dorian is that he's gay, but I don't see that as the only plausible reason. Dorian could've been in love with a woman that didn't have any strong ties to magic, and I'm sure papa Pavus would be just as unaccepting of that.

Dorian just happens to be gay.

 

Oh yeah, I forgot the whole "Tevinter breeding program" crap; my mistake. Also, thanks you two for actually seeing I like Dorian as a character.

[Winged Silver]

 i made an example with Iron Bull and Krem for a reason. if you fail to remember this scene i suggest you to replay it. Because this is where you get this feeling about liberal ideas being showed down your throat whatever you like it or not.

I hardly think that scene was preachy. If someone told me they preferred the use of one pronoun over the other, I'd  acquiesce and do my best to remember their preferred pronoun. That's not preaching. That's respecting someone else's wishes.

 

Although I will admit that the affronted tone Iron Bull took if you chose to ask about was a bit much. I hadn't intended my Inquisitor to sound judgmental when I asked; I simply clicked on the next question dialog. In that regard, I can agree with you.

[RepHope]

What if Dorian's personal quest was about him being in love with a girl not of noble birth, and he refused to be a "breeder" for his father's legacy with the magically blooded woman they picked out for him, and instead wanted to stay with his true love of non-magical woman of common birth?

Would it be an issue?

More than half the quest is about Tevinter Magocratic Genetic Selection.

Yes. That's just as boring. I would've preferred if we'd gotten Dorian bringing up all the other stuff about Tevinter he hated, in addition to his sexuality. I hated how ME2 was basically "Daddy Issues: the Game" when it came to loyalty missions, and I hated it when that's what Dorians personal quest ended up being.

[SixWingedAngel18]

I'm a lesbian irl and when I got his personal quest I double face palmed and groaned. Even I know Bioware is pushing a "gay agenda", and I honestly think straight guys would be more open to gay characters if their whole focus wasn't "Hello, I am character X and I'm gay. People cant accept me for who I am because I'm gay. Have I told you I'm gay?"

 

We are NOT all flamboyant, sex crazed, walking LGBT stereotypes irl so why are we being represented this way? I'm quite feminine, most of my friends are straight girls and the only difference between them & me in how we act is that I prefer a woman in my bed instead of a man

 

Just for once I'd like to see a character like Morrigan or Cullen be gay and be written where their sexuality is not the main focus of their character, an example of this would be Ellie from The Last Of Us. It detracts from the narrative and prevents straight people from identifying with them. A male can be strong/masculine and gay, just as a woman can be quite traditionally feminine but still identify as a lesbian.

 

Seriously Dorian & Sera are walking stereotypes and that just pisses me off to no end. Its the reason I refuse to romance either of them. Josephine, Cassandra and Iron Bull for me all the way (Well, my inquisitors anyway haha)

 

Sorry for the rant, I'm just glad someone brought this up and I can see why his character is so jarring for some.

[Melyanna]

I'm a lesbian irl and when I got his personal quest I double face palmed and groaned. Even I know Bioware is pushing a "gay agenda", and I honestly think straight guys would be more open to gay characters if their whole focus wasn't "Hello, I am character X and I'm gay. People cant accept me for who I am because I'm gay. Have I told you I'm gay?"

 

We are NOT all flamboyant, sex crazed, walking LGBT stereotypes irl so why are we being represented this way? I'm quite feminine, most of my friends are straight girls and the only difference between them & me in how we act is that I prefer a woman in my bed instead of a man

 

Just for once I'd like to see a character like Morrigan or Cullen be gay and be written where their sexuality is not the main focus of their character, an example of this would be Ellie from The Last Of Us. It detracts from the narrative and prevents straight people from identifying with them. A male can be strong/masculine and gay, just as a woman can be quite traditionally feminine but still identify as a lesbian.

 

Seriously Dorian & Sera are walking stereotypes and that just pisses me off to no end. Its the reason I refuse to romance either of them. Josephine, Cassandra and Iron Bull for me all the way (Well, my inquisitors anyway haha)

 

Sorry for the rant, I'm just glad someone brought this up and I can see why his character is so jarring for some.

 

The way I see it, Bioware has given us a set of characters who are LBGTQ: some of them are more straightforward (Sera, Dorian), some aren't (Iron Bull, Josephine). Were Sera and Dorian the only gay characters, I would be more inclined to think this was poor representation, because of stereotypes, but I don't think this is the case.

EDIT: it is also to be noted that I didn't found either Dorian or Sera to be exaggerated. Most of their dialogues were about something else completely.

 

With Dorian specifically, considering his whole background and personal quest (which is about breeding, eugenics and Tevinter nobility supremacy - thank you Behemoth for the great summary), I can see why he would go "f*ck it, I am going to be loud and clear about this, no more hiding what I am".

 

And Sera is a "I do what I want, the rules are stupid" kind of character, so I think her behavior reflects that, regardless of her sexuality.

[KaiserShep]

I don't see how Dorian's being gay can be the main focus of his character, when so much more of his dialogue is occupied by the subject of Tevinter, its future, and what Corypheus represents in relation to both.

[KBomb]

I'm a lesbian irl and when I got his personal quest I double face palmed and groaned. Even I know Bioware is pushing a "gay agenda", and I honestly think straight guys would be more open to gay characters if their whole focus wasn't "Hello, I am character X and I'm gay. People cant accept me for who I am because I'm gay. Have I told you I'm gay?"

We are NOT all flamboyant, sex crazed, walking LGBT stereotypes irl so why are we being represented this way? I'm quite feminine, most of my friends are straight girls and the only difference between them & me in how we act is that I prefer a woman in my bed instead of a man

Just for once I'd like to see a character like Morrigan or Cullen be gay and be written where their sexuality is not the main focus of their character, an example of this would be Ellie from The Last Of Us. It detracts from the narrative and prevents straight people from identifying with them. A male can be strong/masculine and gay, just as a woman can be quite traditionally feminine but still identify as a lesbian.

Seriously Dorian & Sera are walking stereotypes and that just pisses me off to no end. Its the reason I refuse to romance either of them. Josephine, Cassandra and Iron Bull for me all the way (Well, my inquisitors anyway haha)

Sorry for the rant, I'm just glad someone brought this up and I can see why his character is so jarring for some.

Odd, of all the times I have spoken with Dorian, the only time he really discusses his sexuality is during his personal quest. In no way did it make up the whole of his character.

Dorian was extra flirty (for which I was glad), but he certainly didn't come off as sex crazed.

Some forum posters are making more of a big deal out of Dorian and Krem than Bioware ever could.

[TeraBat]

 

Seriously Dorian & Sera are walking stereotypes and that just pisses me off to no end. Its the reason I refuse to romance either of them. Josephine, Cassandra and Iron Bull for me all the way (Well, my inquisitors anyway haha)

 

 

Wait, there's a stereotype of lesbians being firebrands dedicated to sticking it to The Man, and who will break up with you in a heartbeat if you don't 100% share their religious convictions? Not to mention being kickarse self-taught archers? 

 

They totally failed to convey those stereotypes in any story I've yet consumed which featured a lesbian character. I must be really bad at picking up stereotypes. 

 

Fun fact: Having LGBT characters who don't talk about their LGBT-ness is just a fancier way of saying 'LGBT characters stay in the closet.' 

 

Showing fleshed out, interesting LGBT characters is not shoving an agenda down anyone's throat; unless you're the sort of person who thinks that LGBT people should just act straight to avoid offending your sensibilities. Obscuring LGBT characters and their lived experiences (which may directly involve them being LGBT) is also an agenda. It's just more noticeable because it's so different from other mainstream entertainment. 

[phantomrachie]

 

Seriously Dorian & Sera are walking stereotypes and that just pisses me off to no end. Its the reason I refuse to romance either of them. Josephine, Cassandra and Iron Bull for me all the way (Well, my inquisitors anyway haha)

 

 

This statement makes me feel like you played a different game to me.

 

Sera's personal quest and arch revolves around 'sticking a middle finger' to Nobles. It has nothing to do with her being gay. In fact she never mentions her sexuality unless you are male. Her dialogue suggests that she is through her reactions rather than her coming out and saying it. 

 

For example - she and Iron Bull discuss an attractive woman they saw in a village.

 

Sera is exactly want people have been asking for, some who is gay but who their whole life is not about that.

 

As for Dorian, he spends most of his time talking about Tevinter and what it's like there. His sexuality is only brought up once during his personal quest because his father wanted to use blood magic to try and force him to marry. This is a symptom to Tevinter Mages breeding better Mages and would work out the same way if Dorian were straight be wanted to marry a non mage woman.

 

Dorian is flirty, he flirts with everyone, this is part of his personality, he even says it is part of Tevinter culture 'we love things whole heartily' That doesn't make him a stereotype.

 

Dorian being gay contributed to the issues he was having with his family it wasn't the cause of them. 

[TeraBat]

Also, can we please declare this the final Dorian's Story is All About His Gayness thread? There's another one going on right now on the Story & Characters board, and it gets really irritating that people can't just effing cope with the fact that sometimes, a story about a gay man will involve, allude to or touch upon the fact that he's gay. Just, please, get all out on this thread, or the other one, and then move past it so we don't have to go over this again ad nauseum. 

[SixWingedAngel18]

Odd, of all the times I have spoken with Dorian, the only time he really discusses his sexuality is during his personal quest. In no way did it make up the whole of his character.

Dorian was extra flirty (for which I was glad), but he certainly didn't come off as sex crazed.

Some forum posters are making more of a big deal out of Dorian and Krem than Bioware ever could.

 

I wasnt only referencing Dorian there, but a lot of other gay characters in games.

 

But his mannerisms come into play as well; an example would be his lines in battle. "I'm too pretty to die!" Its jarring. Why not "I'm too handsome to die!"

 

The whole "you tried to change me!" line about being brain washed with blood magic, is oddly reminiscent of gay children irl being treated with religion, therapy, etc... And I just felt it was too obviously a "look how liberal we are!" rather than a here's a normal,well-adjusted gay character whose parents/friends/relatives accept readily. Why must every gay character have some sort of angst around their sexuality?

 

Not everyone is rejected upon coming out, for some of us it was a happy experience

 

the representations of bisexuals in this game are fantastic- Josie/leliana/Iron Bull have no angst regarding their same sex attraction whatsoever. They never even mention it, they're extremely well-adjusted and their sexual inclinations are never the focus of anything. then when we get fully homosexual characters, their sexual orientations are suddenly a big part of character development.

 

Its part of the issue I have with Sera as well- While I dont like her personally most of her dialogue is dripping with sexual innuendo, and of course the lesbian sex scene is the most graphic one in the whole damn game. I cant help but feel she was made to appeal mostly to straight male gamers instead of bi/les females irl, as per the "lesbians are sex objects for male teenagers" type of marketing.

 

i know this is a sensitive topic for some, and everyone is entitled to their oppinion, I just feel the gay issue here should have been handled differently.

 

its good to see people discussing this in a civil and respectful way, anyhow

 

Edit: I hope Like I said everyone is entitled to their own point of view.

[KaiserShep]

I rather liked the allusions to Thedas' version of reparative therapy in Dorian's personal quest. As one who finds the whole concept rather repugnant, it's nice that it's paralleled with blood magic XD

 

As for stereotypes, I just don't see it. I suppose Dorian's flair can be construed as such, but he's not an over-the-top caricature like some low-brow comedies might recycle, and I think the same is true of Sera. Neither character seem to be about this, and could just as well be totally unchanged in their characterization/personalities if they were attracted to the opposite sex or both.

 

But then, maybe I'm just not as familiar with the stereotype spectrum.

[KBomb]

I rather liked the allusions to Thedas' version of reparative therapy in Dorian's personal quest. As one who finds the whole concept rather repugnant, it's nice that it's paralleled with blood magic XD

Not to mention it fits perfectly with Dorian's outlook. He loves his country, but dislikes some of the more prominent traditions, viewpoints and hypocrisy of it.

@ SixWingedAngel18

His orientation wasn't an issue with him, but his father. From talking with Dorian, it's clear he has no issue. He is proud and confidant. Personally, I saw his quest as more of a symbol if "old world" verses "new world". His father representing the old ways and hypocrisy of his country-- a foundation of how ever progressive they believed they were, they are still behind, held back by prejudice and close-minded beliefs. Dorian represented what the Imperium could and should be.

That being said, the first thing I said after seeing Dorian was, "Wow, he is so pretty!". I had no idea he was gay at that time. Harding also makes reference to him being pretty. So yeah, Dorian is correct in assuming he is too pretty to die. Because he is.

[LaughingBanana]

He's by far my favorite character in the game; I love the banter he has with Sera and Varric, and he has a voice I bloody wish I had. But I'm a little disappointed that his personal mission was solely based on him being gay. I still remember Bioware complaining about the press focusing solely on Dorian for being gay, but then they make one of his moments in the spotlight be about his dad and Dorian's homosexuality.

 

I would much have prefered it if his personal mission be about a combination of his nationality, magical abilities, and his homosexual then just solely the one thing. Anyone else agree?

 

Actually.........

 

1. His personal quest revolves around his father's disappointment of him not wanting to keep up appearances since they are a well-known family and it is expected in Tevinter that people keep up appearances and put forth "duty" in front of personal happiness. So... that's nationality covered for you.

2. He is expected to marry a girl with strong magical ability so the magical bloodline in his family runs strong and the family gets favor with the Magistarium... so you have the magical abilities covered, and,

3. I don't think I need to explain how his homosexuality is covered, do I?