432 réponses à ce sujet

[Melyanna]

Its part of the issue I have with Sera as well- While I dont like her personally most of her dialogue is dripping with sexual innuendo, and of course the lesbian sex scene is the most graphic one in the whole damn game. I cant help but feel she was made to appeal mostly to straight male gamers instead of bi/les females irl, as per the "lesbians are sex objects for male teenagers" type of marketing.

 

I find her to be the exact opposite: she makes gross jokes, is childish and somewhat annoying (I love her), and she doesn't have the typical bombshell-super-feminine-hyper-sexualized face and clothes that "lesbians as sex objects for male teenagers" have.
If there is one romanceable character who I would say is definitely not sexy in DA:I is Sera.

 

Not to mention it fits perfectly with Dorian's outlook. He loves his country, but dislikes some of the more prominent traditions, viewpoints and hypocrisy of it.

 

Oh, yes, as a person who lives in a pretty corrupt and backwards Country with a great history and culture, I loved this bit of Dorian's dialogues. They were written so well and I could definitely relate.

[KainD]

Basically BW is forcing liberal ideas through their game. And this is so annoying.

There is nothing liberal about conforming to gender.

[Ieldra]

As I said elsewhere:

From an in-world perspective, Dorian's sexual orientation is an accidental factor, and wouldn't be an issue if it didn't interfere with his father's breeding plans.

However, the way this is presented to us, the way it comes across to us players, is reminiscent of debates about homosexuality and some people's insistence that it can be changed by some usually inhuman methods.

I think the real-world analogy was invoked intentionally, and in a somewhat heavy-handed way. Why? Well, because there would've been solutions to the real problem - the breeding schemes and Dorian's involvement in them - which would plausibly have been suggested before trying to change him by magic. I don't see this as a critical problem, but I dislike the heavy-handed invocation of allegory.

Even so, Dorian's quest works for me. I just tune out the allegory and try to experience this from a purely in-world viewpoint.

[SixWingedAngel18]

I find her to be the exact opposite: she makes gross jokes, is childish and somewhat annoying (I love her), and she doesn't have the typical bombshell-super-feminine-hyper-sexualized face and clothes that "lesbians as sex objects for male teenagers" have.
If there is one romanceable character who I would say is definitely not sexy in DA:I is Sera.

 

 

Oh, yes, as a person who lives in a pretty corrupt and backwards Country with a great history and culture, I loved this bit of Dorian's dialogues. They were written so well and I could definitely relate.

 

There is more than one lesbian stereotype, you know I'm talking the irl common find of the gross, rude, sex obsessed, boyish prowler that doesnt care at all about her appearance. Relationships with these girls are often difficult to maintain. You often find these lesbians in dive bars (personal experiences, dont ask haha)

 

Anyway we're all different and we relate to these characters differently.

 

Maybe I just dislike her because she reminds me of my ex, only with elf ears

 

Oh, the stupid days of being a teenager

 

*eye roll*

 

[SixWingedAngel18]

Sera is sexy in a unique way. I prefer this kind of sexiness to that of say, Miranda or Isabela.

 

Also... LOL @ her being a "stereotypical lesbian".

 

If Cassandra was lesbian, then yeah... you could probably consider her as the "stereotype" particularly for butch types. She's very masculine and is tough as nails. But Bioware took the stereotype right out of that one.

 

Sera is simply herself, she sits somewhere in the middle of overly sexy feminine and masculine butch.

 

i obviously see her as more butch than you do, then

 

Lets agree to disagree. OP asked for people's individual oppinions, I gave mine and you gave yours, we dont have to agree.

 

Thats why I like the fact that they made Cassandra straight - she's not a damsel in distress hetero character and I like that. And I think a lot of male and female gamers find her refreshing and unique.

 

Edit: Edited to sound less insulting to the poster Sorry bout that

[SixWingedAngel18]

As I said elsewhere:

From an in-world perspective, Dorian's sexual orientation is an accidental factor, and wouldn't be an issue if it didn't interfere with his father's breeding plans.

However, the way this is presented to us, the way it comes across to us players, is reminiscent of debates about homosexuality and some people's insistence that it can be changed by some usually inhuman methods.

I think the real-world analogy was invoked intentionally, and in a somewhat heavy-handed way. Why? Well, because there would've been solutions to the real problem - the breeding schemes and Dorian's involvement in them - which would plausibly have been suggested before trying to change him by magic. I don't see this as a critical problem, but I dislike the heavy-handed invocation of allegory.

Even so, Dorian's quest works for me. I just tune out the allegory and try to experience this from a purely in-world viewpoint.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who took it this way,

 

heavy handed is a great way to describe it. I agree the allegory was intentional, thats where I got my "agenda" interpretation from.

[Ieldra]

I find her to be the exact opposite: she makes gross jokes, is childish and somewhat annoying (I love her), and she doesn't have the typical bombshell-super-feminine-hyper-sexualized face and clothes that "lesbians as sex objects for male teenagers" have.
If there is one romanceable character who I would say is definitely not sexy in DA:I is Sera.

Watch her move and then say she isn't sexy again. And gross jokes are considered more help than hindrance by some. She's definitely not my type for a continuing relationship, but IMO she is very sexy.

[Nashina]

As a female player I never noticed Sera was a stereotype of a lesbian that other people seem to think. She acts like a person who has a bad history with nobles starting from Lady Emmald.

 

And Dorian is a product of his upbringing, well educated, well spoken, but refusing to put his family "duty" before his own feelings. Which I suspect if he wasn't gay no one would have issues with him. 

[Ieldra]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who took it this way,
 
heavy handed is a great way to describe it. I agree the allegory was intentional, thats where I got my "agenda" interpretation from.

To get this away from the ideologically loaded sexual orientation topic, Cullen's storyline has the same problem. His problems with his lyrium addiction are presented in a way that intentionally and rather heavy-handedly invokes real-world problems with addiction. However, the allegory fails because real-world addictions don't give you useful pseudo-magical abilities. It should not have been attempted.

[SixWingedAngel18]

Oh, don't get me wrong.

 

I am well aware that opinions are subjective.

 

I also liked what Bioware did with Cass, btw. Many others, particularly other lesbians...... not so much.

 

yeah I know

 

sorry, I didnt mean to sound bitchy - but thats hard when youre behind a keyboard I edited the first part of my reply. Its interesting to hear what other peoples reactions to Dorian have been.

 

Maybe I just cant stand Sera because she kinda looks and acts like my ex, minus the elf ears.

 

oh, to be a stupid teenager again *rolls eyes*

 

i have better taste now, I swear

 

...

 

...

 

really, I do >.>

 

haha

[Eterna]

you know when people repeat themselfs too many times in order to make sure that others will listen. despite the fact that by repeating this one thing these people are  making fools of themselfs?

this is how BW behave.

Prime example, aside from Dorian, is Krem and Iron Bull's remark about Krem.

 

Basically BW is forcing liberal ideas through their game. And this is so annoying.

 

Don't like it don't buy it. Find another company or group  that caters to your viewpoint, I suggest the Church of Jesus Christ. 

[KaiserShep]

To get this away from the ideologically loaded sexual orientation topic, Cullen's storyline has the same problem. His problems with his lyrium addiction are presented in a way that intentionally and rather heavy-handedly invokes real-world problems with addiction. However, the allegory fails because real-world addictions don't give you useful pseudo-magical abilities. It should not have been attempted, at least not without taking those benefits into account explicitly.

It's sort of awkward how this contrasts with some dialogue you can have prior to this regarding lyrium, namely having it smuggled in so your new allies or conscripts can have enough power to help you.

[KaiserShep]

Don't like it don't buy it. Find another company or group  that caters to your viewpoint, I suggest the Church of Jesus Christ. 

 

Pfff. Everyone knows all the best games are affiliated with Satan.

[SixWingedAngel18]

You should see the amount of requests to make Sera a bisexual LI after getting knocked back by male players.

this.

When they confirmed her as a lesbian - hands flew up in rage and many feminquisitors were made in response

[TeraBat]

I wasnt only referencing Dorian there, but a lot of other gay characters in games.

 

But his mannerisms come into play as well; an example would be his lines in battle. "I'm too pretty to die!" Its jarring. Why not "I'm too handsome to die!"

 

The whole "you tried to change me!" line about being brain washed with blood magic, is oddly reminiscent of gay children irl being treated with religion, therapy, etc... And I just felt it was too obviously a "look how liberal we are!" rather than a here's a normal,well-adjusted gay character whose parents/friends/relatives accept readily. Why must every gay character have some sort of angst around their sexuality?

 

Not everyone is rejected upon coming out, for some of us it was a happy experience

 

the representations of bisexuals in this game are fantastic- Josie/leliana/Iron Bull have no angst regarding their same sex attraction whatsoever. They never even mention it, they're extremely well-adjusted and their sexual inclinations are never the focus of anything. then when we get fully homosexual characters, their sexual orientations are suddenly a big part of character development.

 

Its part of the issue I have with Sera as well- While I dont like her personally most of her dialogue is dripping with sexual innuendo, and of course the lesbian sex scene is the most graphic one in the whole damn game. I cant help but feel she was made to appeal mostly to straight male gamers instead of bi/les females irl, as per the "lesbians are sex objects for male teenagers" type of marketing.

 

i know this is a sensitive topic for some, and everyone is entitled to their oppinion, I just feel the gay issue here should have been handled differently.

 

its good to see people discussing this in a civil and respectful way, anyhow

 

Edit: I hope Like I said everyone is entitled to their own point of view.

 

Wait....

 

You disagree with Sera because you think she appeals to the Golden Standard of video game demographics, the teenage male.... 

 

but....

 

You also disagree with Dorian because you feel he's the creation of a liberal agenda? 

 

How the hell does that even go together? 

 

Seriously, it just seems like you're looking for anything you can dredge up to argue against having gay people be all gay and people-y in your games. 

[SixWingedAngel18]

To get this away from the ideologically loaded sexual orientation topic, Cullen's storyline has the same problem. His problems with his lyrium addiction are presented in a way that intentionally and rather heavy-handedly invokes real-world problems with addiction. However, the allegory fails because real-world addictions don't give you useful pseudo-magical abilities. It should not have been attempted, at least not without taking those benefits into account explicitly.

I had a problem with that too. I just think the writers mis-handle these sorts of things. A lifelong drug addiction is hard to overcome, one sentence from the Inquisitor and suddenly he's fine. (unless I missed more scenes). it was like in DA2, I sat there laughing at how suddenly a family member died, everyone just kind of shrugs their shoulders and walks away from the scene, like "meh". Same with Aveline and her husband.

[KaiserShep]

I thought Wesley's death scene was not bad. They didn't so much walk away, but rather had Flemeth walk past a grieving Aveline with her ancient witch manner of speech with the transition back to the narrator.

[SixWingedAngel18]

Don't like it don't buy it. Find another company or group  that caters to your viewpoint, I suggest the Church of Jesus Christ. 

Dont insult someone for having a different viewpoint, and dont use religion to be a smart arse.

I know plenty of religious people from all faiths who are accepting of LGBT people.

[TeraBat]

Also, newsflash for everyone moaning about DAI having a 'liberal agenda.' 

 

Games are art. 

 

All art has an agenda. 

 

That is the way of the world, the way of art and the way of storytelling. Unless you want to play infinite Tetris clones, your games will always have an agenda. Mario has an agenda. Halo has an agenda. Angry Birds has an agenda. Gone Home has an agenda. Dragon Age has an agenda. 

 

Every play, story, novel, film, amateur improv hour and parent reading their kid a book at bedtime has had an agenda. Thus it has always been, and always will be. Even cave art probably had an agenda. 

 

The thing is, with games like Mario or Halo, the agenda goes along with the status quo; so no one realizes it's an agenda. It's affirming the agenda most people already have. 

 

BIoWare's agenda is 'LGBT people are people and have interesting stories that should be told.' Sometimes, that directly deals with the fact that they're LGBT. Sometimes, their being LGBT is part of a larger situation, or incidental, or not even a factor. And dealing with that agenda, when it's not part of your normal status quo, shocks you out of your comfort zone and makes you think about stories other than your own. 

 

Good. 

 

That's what good art is supposed to do. 

 

If you don't like it, go back to playing Tetris. 

[Ieldra]

I had a problem with that too. I just think the writers mis-handle these sorts of things. A lifelong drug addiction is hard to overcome, one sentence from the Inquisitor and suddenly he's fine. (unless I missed more scenes). it was like in DA2, I sat there laughing at how suddenly a family member died, everyone just kind of shrugs their shoulders and walks away from the scene, like "meh". Same with Aveline and her husband.

No, that's not what I meant. I think Cullen's struggle as such was presented ok. You don't solve his problem by talking to him, you encourage him to go on and I think that came across reasonably well. The problem was that the very real benefits of taking lyrium were completely ignored by this storyline in order to make this work as an allegory. This is especially noticeable if you ally with the templars and watch them taking lyrium in preparation for dealing with the envy demon.