The agenda being....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I will happily throw money at a game studio making inclusive, interesting games.
Art is allowed to be profitable. Unprofitable art withers and dies.
And if the numbers on DAI are any indication, progressive art with a 'liberal agenda' is pretty profitable right now.
AFAIK there has not been a single incident of a cis-gender person being injured or damaged, either by themselves or someone else, because someone introduced a progressive theme in a video game...so if a developer might help someone find acceptance by representing them within a story, heavy handed as it may be, that may be forgiven, because it actually doesn't hurt anyone...
Don't like it don't buy it. Find another company or group that caters to your viewpoint, I suggest the Church of Jesus Christ.
Or the Republican Party! (No, let's not talk about that other global popular religion!)
Wait....
You disagree with Sera because you think she appeals to the Golden Standard of video game demographics, the teenage male....
but....
You also disagree with Dorian because you feel he's the creation of a liberal agenda?
How the hell does that even go together?
Seriously, it just seems like you're looking for anything you can dredge up to argue against having gay people be all gay and people-y in your games.
This... Makes absolutely no sense. there's a golden standard now?
Teenage males arent the main demographic anymore.
Obviously I'm a homophobic lesbian for wanting more elegant, mature lesbian women like Celene in games.
makes heaps of sense
let me just reinsert myself into the closet...
Or the Republican Party! (No, let's not talk about that other global popular religion!)
At least the Republican Party has its own version of Skyhold.
No, that's not what I meant. I think Cullen's struggle as such was presented ok. You don't solve his problem by talking to him, you encourage him to go on and I think that came across reasonably well. The problem was that the very real benefits of taking lyrium were completely ignored by this storyline in order to make this work as an allegory. This is especially noticeable if you ally with the templars and watch them taking lyrium in preparation for dealing with the envy demon.
Ah.
I wouldnt know, I never allied with the Templars lol
Watch her move and then say she isn't sexy again. And gross jokes are considered more help than hindrance by some. She's definitely not my type for a continuing relationship, but IMO she is very sexy.
That was badly worded on my part: OP mentioned the "appeals to teenager boys" kind of sexy, which I don't think is Sera's case - that's what I meant, but failed to explain properly.
I was trying to say that I don't think she was designed with the kind of traits they give female characters when authors want to make them the typical "this lesbian is here just to be a turn on for guys".
I also don't think she is a stereotype for the complete opposite (gross, rude, sex obsessed, boyish prowler that doesnt care at all about her appearance), though. She does move gracefully and her room I find to be very girly (I want her room instead of the one they gave the inquisitor).
I also think she cares about her appearence, she just doesn't want to conform to what's proper - hence the ugly haircut.
This... Makes absolutely no sense. there's a golden standard now?
Teenage males arent the main demographic anymore.
Obviously I'm a homophobic lesbian for wanting more elegant, mature lesbian women like Celene in games.
makes heaps of sense
let me just reinsert myself into the closet...
So if I read you correctly, mature lesbians like Celene are okay, but teenage lesbians like Sera aren't? It's not okay to have a character who is brash and in your face like every nineteen year old rebel ever and also have her be a lesbian? So what exactly should brash teenage lesbians in Thedas *do*? Wait until they're Celene's age before coming out? Hell, I'm in my thirties, and my straight friends are still making dick jokes every time someone uses the word 'box' in a vaguely suggestive manner. Should've seen us when we were in our teens and twenties. Sera's jokes are pretty tame by comparison.
AFAIK there has not been a single incident of a cis-gender person being injured or damaged, either by themselves or someone else, because someone introduced a progressive theme in a video game...so if a developer might help someone find acceptance by representing them within a story, heavy handed as it may be, that may be forgiven, because it actually doesn't hurt anyone...
But heavy handed can hinder us more than help...
There's beauty in subtelty, like Celene/Briala.
If we can be represented as characters first, then orientation second, thats when true progress will happen.
Well, neither do criticisms of misapplied allegory hurt anyone. I have no problems with art sending messages - in fact, I don't think art can avoid sending messages, so writers/artists/etc.. should take care not to send unintended ones rather than attempting to avoid them completely - but if an allegory isn't a natural fit in the story, it can legitimately be criticized.AFAIK there has not been a single incident of a cis-gender person being injured or damaged, either by themselves or someone else, because someone introduced a progressive theme in a video game...so if a developer might help someone find acceptance by representing them within a story, heavy handed as it may be, that may be forgiven, because it actually doesn't hurt anyone...
Guest_Donkson_*
I love the directions these threads go in.... 
Dont insult someone for having a different viewpoint, and dont use religion to be a smart arse.
I know plenty of religious people from all faiths who are accepting of LGBT people.
Nothing I said was insulting. I don't care that you know a few religious people that bend their doctrine to support their views on the world, they all do that.
So if I read you correctly, mature lesbians like Celene are okay, but teenage lesbians like Sera aren't? It's not okay to have a character who is brash and in your face like every nineteen year old rebel ever and also have her be a lesbian? So what exactly should brash teenage lesbians in Thedas *do*? Wait until they're Celene's age before coming out? Hell, I'm in my thirties, and my straight friends are still making dick jokes every time someone uses the word 'box' in a vaguely suggestive manner. Should've seen us when we were in our teens and twenties. Sera's jokes are pretty tame by comparison.
Celene is an under-represented type of lesbian though.
Most lesbian characters I come across in books/film/tv are young, going through their period of self discovery and acceptance. Celene would never be a character with a romance/sex scene as is because then people would say she isnt sexy enough, or they'd be like "ew, naked woman in her 40s/50s/older enjoying sex, ew ew ew. So in the opposite spectrum , just because she isnt young and vivacious and willing to rip someones clothes off in a heartbeat (to quote Sera: Why arent we in bed? I really want to play.Now. Bed. Lets go"), she wouldnt make the cut as a party member.
on the other side of the gender fence, why arent there and arcs in stories that focus on older gay men? Like a blackwall character.
I suppose its a matter of taste, though. I and an asexual male friend both found her to be too crass.
Guest_Donkson_*
Ironically, Sera wanted a bit of Celene. 
I had her assassinated.
I love the directions these threads go in....
Oh, thread. You so silly.
Ironically, Sera wanted a bit of Celene.
I had her assassinated.
LOL
I tried that once, felt guilty, reloaded 
Guest_Donkson_*
To be honest, I felt guilty as well.
But it was fitting when my Inquisitor said something along the lines of, "I fix rifts in the sky and can make bad decisions yet they still love me."
Celene is an under-represented type of lesbian though.
Most lesbian characters I come across in books/film/tv are young, going through their period of self discovery and acceptance. Celene would never be a character with a romance/sex scene as is because then people would say she isnt sexy enough, or they'd be like "ew, naked woman in her 40s/50s/older enjoying sex, ew ew ew. So in the opposite spectrum , just because she isnt young and vivacious and willing to rip someones clothes off in a heartbeat (to quote Sera: Why arent we in bed? I really want to play.Now. Bed. Lets go"), she wouldnt make the cut as a party member.
on the other side of the gender fence, why arent there and arcs in stories that focus on older gay men? Like a blackwall character.
I suppose its a matter of taste, though. I and an asexual male friend both found her to be too crass.
Except Sera isn't going through self-discovery and acceptance, either. She is who she is, and if you're a woman who's interested in her and not a total arseface, she's into you without any sort of shame or angsting about her identity. As a young lesbian with no identity issues, you might even say that Sera is even rarer an archetype.
If you want Bioware to include an older gay man in their next game, that's cool; I'm on board. But that's an entirely separate issue from Dorian and Sera (who are themselves separate issues from each other).
Guest_Donkson_*
They should have made Roderick and Mother Giselle gay exclusive LIs.
Or have Roderick survive and hook up with Giselle, and you can walk in on them in that same room that Morrigan eventually keeps the Eluvian.
Inquisitor: Oh...I don't...
Roderick: Begone!
Giselle: Ingquisieghtor!
Guest_Donkson_*
LOL!!!!!!!! @ that Mother Giselle impersonation.
Greatly approves
Or have Roderick survive and hook up with Giselle, and you can walk in on them in that same room that Morrigan eventually keeps the Eluvian.
Inquisitor: Oh...I don't...
Roderick: Begone!
Giselle: Ingquisieghtor!
I would pay for this.
Guest_Donkson_*
Inquisitor: What are you doing in here?
Roderick: You shouldn't even BE here!
Inquisitor: Doesn't that massive rift *points to Mother Giselle's private parts* bother you?
Inquisitor: What are you doing in here?
Roderick: You shouldn't even BE here!
Inquisitor: Doesn't that massive rift *points to Mother Giselle's private parts* bother you?
Does the inquisitor then close the rift?
They should have made Roderick and Mother Giselle gay exclusive LIs.
lol!
Only if we can keep Loghain tied to the Inquisitors bed or take Briala's place
You can ask Leliana if her and Divine Justinia were a thing. I absolutely could not resist that dialogue
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she went there haha
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