432 réponses à ce sujet

[yankblan]

The problem I have with Dorian is that he is the steriotypical, flamboyant gay stereotype who even has a daddy issues personal quest. I do like him as a character, but the gay part feels forced down the throat. Why can't we have more realistic gay characters like Arcade from Fallout New Vegas? He is gay, but doesn't have to remind us that during every single dialogue. And Arcade also had daddy issues, but they had nothing to do with his sexuality. Ugh. 

 

I went to a gay wedding (two men) 4-5 years ago; one of the grooms had his dad there; they didn't speak for years then made up a year or 2 before the wedding.  The other's dad wouldn't show up.  One is effiminate, the other pretty manly.  These are not stereotypes; I'd say that more than 50% of the gay men I know are effiminate/flashy/fabulous, call it what you want.  One look at them and you know.  It's just that pointing it out is frowned upon, it's not a lie or a stereotype.

 

edit: like someone else posted, Dorian looks more sophisticated than "flamboyant", and full of himself, which is not a "gay trait" in itself.  It is in the manner you depict a gay effiminate that will show respect or not; it can be realistic without being a buffoon.

Modifié par yankblan, 13 janvier 2015 - 07:21 .

[papercut_ninja]

I never thought he was over-the-top gay; I just wished his personal mission didn't revolve around parents being anti-homosexual. I'm a little concerned that many writers out there think all gay people have to offer in a story is just being gay.

 

I am a little concerned that so many consumers only acknowledge the fact that a character being gay as their only contribution to the story, despite the fact that the character brings far more to the story than that...

[KaiserShep]

If it had a little more backstory in it and more follow up on it (without romancing him). And give me an option to be a horrible person. Forcing him to that kind of ritual would have been awesome.

How would you even go about forcing him to take this ritual? Would you have Inquisition soldiers hold him down and force it upon him? For what? Stupid-evil options can be amusing, which the Warden can attest to, but the idea of him kicking and screaming while you force blood magic reparative therapy in him seems rather senselessly sadistic. You'd might as well just make him tranquil and spare the trouble of the blood magic altogether. Anyway, it would be pretty lame of him to not put up a fight. I'd fling my share of fireballs and lightning before I let anyone do something like that and I'd expect any sensible person with the capacity to do the same.

[KBomb]

I agree there is more to Dorian but I still think that making a huge deal of him being gay was not needed at all

his quest also can't be compared to the others because the only purpose of the quest was to mirror the real world and how many parents don't approve of their children being gay because of society I get what david Gaider was trying to show but in my opinion it felt forced and didn't belong in the game

They didn't make it a huge deal. It was one quest in the entire game. One conversation in the entire game.

Everyone else is making it a huge deal, more so than it needs to be.

[ironhorse384]

Personally, I don't care that he's gay but the parent disappointment and child reconciliation story is nothing new. It's not like this narrative hasn't been played out in film and tv before.

[Rannik]

[Versus Omnibus]

I am a little concerned that so many consumers only acknowledge the fact that a character in a story is gay, despite the fact that the character brings far more to the story than that...

 

I understand; Dorian's homosexuality isn't all he brings to the table. But it just came across during his personal mission that Dorian "prefering the company of men" was the sole reason for the mission. As others have pointed out: it is more then just Dorian being gay, but it still comes across as just being about that.

 

Maybe I'm too focused on the gay part, I'll be willing to admit that. But I just want to make it clear: Dorian being a homosexual isn't my main issue, it's how when Dorian gets a moment in the spotlight and that's all that's focused on.

[Rannik]

Games are art. 

 

[citation needed]

[daveliam]

I am a little concerned that so many consumers only acknowledge the fact that a character being gay as their only contribution to the story, despite the fact that the character brings far more to the story than that...

^. This! 100% this!

It's mind-boggling to me that anyone who actually played this game can say that all Dorian brings to the story is the fact that he's gay. Let alone 'all gay people' given that Sera barely mentions her sexuality in any capacity whatsoever. I hate to say it, but I'm thinking that SOME of the people in here just like complaining about gay content and think that if they couch it as 'stereotypical', they can get away with it. I've seriously never seen so many people who 'support gays in real life' clutch their pearls at in-game gay content before.

[KBomb]

^. This! 100% this!

It's mind-boggling to me that anyone who actually played this game can say that all Dorian brings to the story is the fact that he's gay. Let alone 'all gay people' given that Sera barely mentions her sexuality in any capacity whatsoever. I hate to say it, but I'm thinking that SOME of the people in here just like complaining about gay content and think that if they couch it as 'stereotypical', they can get away with it. I've seriously never seen so many people who 'support gays in real life' clutch their pearls at in-game gay content before.

I like this post to infinity and beyond.

[KBomb]

why so defensive? no one here has anything against gay content you are just being dramatic
people here are just saying that it seemed forced and heavy handed

why couldn't Dorian be just gay and fighting with his father over other issues (and not his sexuality)?

It was about other issues. It was about his father's hypocrisy. He taught him that blood magic was for the weak, but then wanted to use it to change Dorian's behavior. It was about how his father stood proud as his own man, but as soon as the cards hit the table, he folded to conform, to protect his image and bloodline. That was what sickened Dorian, not so much that his father disapproves if his life, but that he threw all of his morals and beliefs out the window for ideals he once fought against.

Dorian being gay was a grain of salt in that whole stew pot, but people ignore that and jump right to "agendas".

[Ryzaki]

The only thing I wanted about this quest was to be able to leave them to sort it out because as far as my quizzy's concerned that's not his business.

 

 

But noooo I have to stay there.

 

Also I have to encourage him to leave/stay that also is meh. He couldn't decide that on his own? It was a purely personal issue. :X

[KaiserShep]

Few things are so deeply personal that it would drive the less tolerant to resort to extreme measures to correct. I know this seems like an excuse, but if Dorian was simply trying to become a wandering poet or just plain didn't like his father or Tevinter, the idea of Papa Pavus resorting to blood magic after preaching about it being the resort of a weak person just seems really ridiculous.

[Korva]

These are not stereotypes; I'd say that more than 50% of the gay men I know are effiminate/flashy/fabulous, call it what you want.  One look at them and you know.  It's just that pointing it out is frowned upon, it's not a lie or a stereotype.

 

If that is true, one has to wonder if this is due in no small part to the fact that the "flaming queer" is pretty much the only halfway "accepted", if still looked down upon, manner of gay male visibility. Alternatively or additionally, whether non-straight people break gender stereotypes anyway simply by existing, so may have less personal hangups against displaying traits usually associated with another gender. Speaking from personal experience, giving two middle fingers to the stereotypes forced on one's assigned gender can be hugely liberating.

[MrSnoozer]

They have? Man, I need to get back on the market...

Yeah some research done by a group called intimacy (sells bra's ^^) something like going from 34B to 34DD . huffpost did an article on it 2ish years back

[Uhh.. Jonah]

i made an example with Iron Bull and Krem for a reason. if you fail to remember this scene i suggest you to replay it. Because this is where you get this feeling about liberal ideas being showed down your throat whatever you like it or not.

No, not an idea, rather reality- just like how Cassandra is faithful, or Blackwall strives to be better than himself. These are people you meet in the real world, and Krem is no different than that. It'd be different if the Inq. went on some mission to stop a serial killer from killing queer people. I'd say that's more shoving "liberal ideas down your throat."

[KBomb]

The only thing I wanted about this quest was to be able to leave them to sort it out because as far as my quizzy's concerned that's not his business.


But noooo I have to stay there.

Also I have to encourage him to leave/stay that also is meh. He couldn't decide that on his own? It was a purely personal issue. :X

I have to say that I felt like that in more than a few quests. I am horribly bad in a "moral support" kind of thing, though. When a friend or someone is crying or something like that, I just kind of pat them on the back until it becomes weird, then I just stand there looking awkward. So, maybe that is why I don't want to be involved.

[InfinitePaths]

What is the purpose of art?Not just to entertain us, art engages us, art make us empathize and think.Think about the world, about morality and think about people in general.

 

In today's world society looks down on LGBT people everywhere in varying degrees, we are treated as outcasts, as a bad thing.As a harmful deviation that you should be ashamed of and ought to "fix.".LBGT teens by far commit most suicides in the world.

 

It is not a bad thing they included a quest purely about how your family/society doesn't support you being gay(And it is not completely about it, it also gives us insight into tevinter culture.).It is great thing, it is making a statement as a piece of art.His quest took real problems,real drama, real pain and real emotion people have felt in real life and put them in a fictional setting, just like every other theme in Dragon Age.It shows how Dorian didn't fit into society because of him being gay, just like in our world but because of fictional reasons.If he were to follow the Tevinter norm, he would live a miserable life, hiding, pretending, hurting.All that just because he was born gay.Even his father cared more about who he wanted Dorian to be, than who Dorian really was and tried to change him.How would you feel if your entire life people dissaproved and shamed you because of a trait you were born with, and even risked turning you into a vegetable just to change you. A part of Dorian's identity, him being gay has caused him so much hurtful feelings and peril with his family and his surroundings, it just felt real.The scene with his father really hit home.It engaged me, I felt emotion, it made me think.That is what I call art.

 

 

I think Bioware is extremely brave and I salute them for tackling such a real, complex issue wrapped in ignorance and hate and showed it so elegantly in a personal quest.Thank you Bioware, means a lot  .

[Feranel]

I have to say that I felt like that in more than a few quests. I am horribly bad in a "moral support" kind of thing, though. When a friend or someone is crying or something like that, I just kind of pat them on the back until it becomes weird, then I just stand there looking awkward. So, maybe that is why I don't want to be involved.

 

I had that feeling on the Demands of the Qun, like, why is it my decision, it's your contacts, your country, and your merc group, your decision Iron Bull.