432 réponses à ce sujet

[RobRam10]

Dorian failed to heed the call of service to Tevinter.

[Korva]

Then I suppose any positive mention of heterosexuality and cisgender is also an "acute political statement" to be avoided. Right?

[Uhh.. Jonah]

This is the real crux of the matter.  Either you do or don't like Bioware making overt political statements.  I happen to be in the camp of people who don't like them making overt political statements.
 
My main issue has been with people saying Dorian's quest or Krem *aren't* acute political statements.  They are.

Curious, why is it an issue for you?

[KaiserShep]

Dorian failed to heed the call of service to Tevinter.

Not hard to see why man. It's basically Bloodwizardopolis: now with more slaves.

[InfinitePaths]

This is the real crux of the matter.  Either you do or don't like Bioware making overt political statements.  I happen to be in the camp of people who don't like them making overt political statements.

 

My main issue has been with people saying Dorian's quest or Krem *aren't* acute political statements.  They are. 

 

 

Yes, but almost all story of Dragon Age gives "political statements" if you define it like that.

 

Slavery, empires, nations, social classes, wars, torture etc. etc.

 

Every single story in a Dragon Age game is a reflection of controversial questions that were debated IRL over the ages over and over again.

[Feranel]

This is the real crux of the matter.  Either you do or don't like Bioware making overt political statements.  I happen to be in the camp of people who don't like them making overt political statements.

 

My main issue has been with people saying Dorian's quest or Krem *aren't* acute political statements.  They are. 

 

Moreover, I think people's tolerance of them making political statements is 100% dependent on 1) how personal that issue is to them and 2) how much they agree with what Bioware has to say about it.  The instant the statements are 1) not something you personally identify with or care much about or 2) disagree with, the instant they become irritating instead of uplifting.  This is why I maintain a firm "please keep your politics out of the games" stance.  It's too much of a slipeery slope.  Having story informed by real world issues?  Sure.  Making overt political declarations?  No thanks. 

 

That's why I can't stand Iron Bull and the rest of the Qunari's take on poverty, they continue to shove their socialist agenda down our throats "Everyone has a job and no one goes hungry in the Qun unlike the rampant poverty created by your aristocratic capitalist ideals."  Even Dorian "At least in tevinter they can just become slaves and be kept warm and dry as opposed to living in slums dying of the cold like you people do with your poor."

[KBomb]

I had that feeling on the Demands of the Qun, like, why is it my decision, it's your contacts, your country, and your merc group, your decision Iron Bull.

Yeah, that was a bit awkward, too. I think Bull wanted your input because the end result would have consequences for the Inquisition. If you allow his team to live, the Qun could see you as an enemy and you lose a particularly fierce ally. But yeah, I had that reaction of, "Oh snap, don't leave that **** up to me!" 

[InfinitePaths]

Moreover, I think people's tolerance of them making political statements is 100% dependent on 1) how personal that issue is to them and 2) how much they agree with what Bioware has to say about it.  The instant the statements are 1) not something you personally identify with or care much about or 2) disagree with, the instant they become irritating instead of uplifting.  This is why I maintain a firm "please keep your politics out of the games" stance.  It's too much of a slipeery slope.  Having story informed by real world issues?  Sure.  Making overt political declarations?  No thanks. 

 

I would be equally as irritated if they came out with a definite "the Maker does/doesn't exist."  Or "freedom is better than security" in the mage/templar debate. 

 

The difference is that some moral questions are really one sided when thought about logically and of course they aren't up to debate.

 

Why are you not complaining that Bioware is definitely saying "Slavery is wrong." "Women should be allowed to exit the house." "Non-whites should be allowed to talk".

 

"Freedom vs Control" and "Religion and Spirituallity" are questions up to debate because both sides have some arguments.Complaining that they are giving a one sided picture of homosexuality is stupid, because it is not a big political question, it is basic human decency.

[Uhh.. Jonah]

 
Moreover, I think people's tolerance of them making political statements is 100% dependent on 1) how personal that issue is to them and 2) how much they agree with what Bioware has to say about it.  The instant the statements are 1) not something you personally identify with or care much about or 2) disagree with, the instant they become irritating instead of uplifting.  This is why I maintain a firm "please keep your politics out of the games" stance.  It's too much of a slipeery slope.  Having story informed by real world issues?  Sure.  Making overt political declarations?  No thanks. 
 
I would be equally as irritated if they came out with a definite "the Maker does/doesn't exist."  Or "freedom is better than security" in the mage/templar debate.

I don't see how Krem or Dorian are overt political statements.

[Feranel]

Yes, but the difference is that Bioware didn't step up and say "oh, this is the correct answer and you must chose it."  Those themes just exist. Bioware made no declarations about them.  

 

I'm not seeing where Bioware stated "this is the correct answer and you must choose it"  just because you can't change it doesn't mean they are saying it is correct.  Anders will always be a fanatical terrorist and nothing you the protagonist can choose will ever change it, is that Bioware saying that terrorism is right?

[InfinitePaths]

Because I deal with RL political stuff when I vote, when I watch the news, when I interact with people, all day.  I just don't want it in DA.  I'm fine with DA making me think.  I don't want DA to feel like a non profit with a cause or a political campaign.   

 

A story about a man suffering through peril because of his sexuality isn't giving a political statement.It is a human story.

[leaguer of one]

Because I deal with RL political stuff when I vote, when I watch the news, when I interact with people, all day.  I just don't want it in DA.  I'm fine with DA making me think.  I don't want DA to feel like a non profit with a cause or a political campaign.   

Dude, it's been there from dao. It's not going away. And that's a dumb and very lazy excuse.

[RobRam10]

Not hard to see why man. It's basically Bloodwizardopolis: now with more slaves.

And that's a bad thing because?...

[InfinitePaths]

/Sarcasm

 

I really feel like Bioware is obviously shoving a political agenda down us.It is saying that women in power are 100% justified.Why don't I have the option to say I disagree with women being in power?Why must I 100% agree with the political idea that black people should be "non-slaves"?

[Draining Dragon]

Moral questions are never one-sided, not even when you apply logic.

For example, in my opinion, slavery is a terrible thing. However, I can't prove through logic that slavery is "bad". That's a subjective assessment. When I say "slavery is evil" I'm basing that primarily off of my belief in John Locke's natural rights theory. If somebody doesn't believe in natural rights, rational thought could lead them to a very different conclusion.

To quote Voltaire, "Common sense is not so common."

[InfinitePaths]

It is a big political question even if ethics are firmly on one side on not the other.  Also, I'm not complaining about those highlighted things because those are dead debates.  Only a radical fringe thinks otherwise nowadays. It's specifically because the issue *is* so dead that we are allowed to be pro slavery in game without it carrying over massive modern social implications. 

 

How does exactly a man being gay, and having issues because of it represented it a game giving one-sided political statements?

 

And even if it was so the most popular movies/books are the ones which tackled the oppressive political questions in the time when the book was being written.There is nothing wrong with a piece of art giving it's own relfection of the current world.

[leaguer of one]

Are you saying they *didn't* put in Krem and write his dialog mostly with a mind to portraying "correct" depictions of transgender people?

 

Dorian is more up for debate I grant you, but I'll just refer you to earlier things I said in this thread about this to summarize my views on his quest. 

The fact it's up to you how you deal with him makes it a no. It more of a show of perspective on the issue then telling use the right way to treat transgender people.

[Jackums]

I'm a lesbian irl and when I got his personal quest I double face palmed and groaned. Even I know Bioware is pushing a "gay agenda", and I honestly think straight guys would be more open to gay characters if their whole focus wasn't "Hello, I am character X and I'm gay. People cant accept me for who I am because I'm gay. Have I told you I'm gay?"

 

We are NOT all flamboyant, sex crazed, walking LGBT stereotypes irl so why are we being represented this way? I'm quite feminine, most of my friends are straight girls and the only difference between them & me in how we act is that I prefer a woman in my bed instead of a man

 

Just for once I'd like to see a character like Morrigan or Cullen be gay and be written where their sexuality is not the main focus of their character, an example of this would be Ellie from The Last Of Us. It detracts from the narrative and prevents straight people from identifying with them. A male can be strong/masculine and gay, just as a woman can be quite traditionally feminine but still identify as a lesbian.

 

Seriously Dorian & Sera are walking stereotypes and that just pisses me off to no end. Its the reason I refuse to romance either of them. Josephine, Cassandra and Iron Bull for me all the way (Well, my inquisitors anyway haha)

 

Sorry for the rant, I'm just glad someone brought this up and I can see why his character is so jarring for some.

I agree with there being a degree of stereotyping.

 

As a gay male who's very typically "male" and not flamboyant at all, with most most people I meet assuming I'm straight, I've wanted an atypical (ie. masculine) gay male romance in a BioWare game since I played Origins. I'm not focused on the romance in these games so much as I am the story, but before launch I was naturally curious about Dorian. Within a few hours into the game I already had a preference for Bull, just because Dorian's flamboyant personality didn't appeal to me, though he's still one of my favorite companions just for being interesting and likeable, attraction aside.

 

Anyway, I wasn't bothered by the portrayal of the gay and lesbian options (I'm used to it at this point), but I do see the stereotyping.