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This video speak the truth - Stop Pre-ordering games.


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#51
Wires_From_The_Wall

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You don't know what you're talking about.

If a company has an extremely consistent type of game they output (see: Ubisoft), you know what you're getting with a new game, generally. Thus, a pre-order is not a risky event at all.

 

 

Incredibly far fetched examples of Watchdogs and Ass.Greed Unity send their warmest  regards I guess.

 

 

Specially with AC franchise, you've never been able to know beforehand if the next title is a technically well executed, uninspired void-of-spirit pile of meh or or a genuinely impressive piece of work.

 

I'm sure you'd get plenty of very colorful remarks from Unity pre-orderers:D

 

 

Just don't do it. 

pls

no

It hurts you. And far more importantly, it hurts ME!;p



#52
TheChris92

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Except you can't really do your homework properly; your school books are filled with shameless, blatant  lies and intentional misleading. There is no such thing as responsible pre-orderer!

 

Stop pre-ordering your games.

I pre-order games when I know what I'm getting, and usually that's something one can easy tell from developers with a consistent release formula. If I pre-ordered a game from Telltale I can most likely tell what kind of game I'm getting, and while it might not necessarily mean quality all the time; You can't win 'em all, no developer can. But that's a risk that you're taking as a consumer and that doesn't apply to pre-ordering alone. I don't pre-order so I can get that extra bonus item bullocks, I pre-order a game because I WANT to own that game and I want to play it immediately.

The only real misleading lies would be if a developer had shown CGI trailers as opposed to gameplay (see Dead Island or Final Fantasy), you can only truly judge a game through it's gameplay and not content that has nothing to do with it. I followed the development of Inquisition and I ended up surprisingly ordering the game and get exactly what I wanted with only a few minor gripes, which is something common for most games I play. So, no, I think I'll keep pre-ordering games I want to own thank you very much.

You can do this while still being cautiously critical.



#53
Dreez

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The problem is that most developers lies, cuts corners and hypes their games to sell more copys. Even when they know their information is full of crap

and there isn't much truth to it.  Take company X for example.. a well established developer releasing their 3rd game from a loved series, and pre-prelease

they said they were going "back to the roots" with all that made the first game so awesome.

But what they ended up releasing what a pile of crap that didn't resemble their first game much, many of the best features wasn't in the new game

and they never gave any explanation to why this was.,

 

Pre-ordering games because a developer is "known to release good stuff" is EXACTLY why it's so wrong.  Many developers are using/abusing their

established name to decieve the customers.

 

I am surprised that bungie hasn't been sued yet for lying about Destiny.



#54
TheChris92

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The problem is that most developers lies, cuts corners and hypes their games to sell more copys. Even when they know their information is full of crap
and there isn't much truth to it.

The key word is 'most' -- Who are "the most"? Do we have to start counting them down while we are generalizing? Disregarding that, I'm the kind of guy who doesn't particularly care for the concept of being a fan 'of one gaming company/and or console manufacturer over another, the whole platform war business". If a game is good, then it's good, despite whoever developed it. I tend to call myself a Silent Hill and Metal Gear Solid fan, especially back in the day, but I don't particularly care for the any recent games in either franchises due to their falling out with their core mechanics, issues with writing and how different they play now etc. In retrospect, I don't really hold it against either Konami or Kojima as much as some fans might, like say BioWare fans, I move on to another developer who dish out quality games. There'll always be game worthy of my attention, thus I take the risk of investing in them, whether it be through pre-order, or just picking them up post release in some electronics store. Ultimately, it doesn't matter because as a consumer you take a risk regardless, and if it doesn't end up being as good as you hope then it might then it's not necessarily as much the developer's fault, as it is yours, given your expectations were at a whole different level from the what it actually is.. Sometimes people's expectations are the cause of grieve and being up-tight about games not living up to expectation. The only real negative I see about pre-orders, are the same thing as DLC.. it's the mindset of exploitation, where they'd shameless include tripe, like the Catwoman DLC bullocks with Arkham City, exclusive content and sometimes story DLC as well.. Going by this logic, people should just stop buying DLC altogether despite the many money-worth expansion packs that are out there.


I'm not entirely sure about the whole "going back to their roots" you're talking about? It sounds like you have a particular grudge against a certain developer, and feel like you need to label it equally among all of them which is a bit silly.
The best thing one can do is not necessarily to stop pre-ordering, but be cautious with where you decide to invest your money.. much like Kickstarter -- You're taking a leap of faith in every purchase you make and that's all you can really do.
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#55
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Incredibly far fetched examples of Watchdogs and Ass.Greed Unity send their warmest  regards I guess.

 

 

Specially with AC franchise, you've never been able to know beforehand if the next title is a technically well executed, uninspired void-of-spirit pile of meh or or a genuinely impressive piece of work.

 

I'm sure you'd get plenty of very colorful remarks from Unity pre-orderers:D

 

 

Just don't do it. 

pls

no

It hurts you. And far more importantly, it hurts ME!;p

 

You're right--both Watch Dogs and Unity are great examples. We all knew what we were getting with those games: an open-world game with a "do X to unlock the map" mechanic, tons of little side activities that provide a complete change of pace from the story, and a mediocre-to-decent story. No one who pre-ordered either was surprised by the game's content.

 

As for technical issues, what does that have to do with pre-ordering? That's a serious question, please think about it before giving a gut "well if you pre-ordered you're somehow magically unable to hold off playing the game until the patch the game" that people usually give (I've never seen you do it, but it's common). Because the fact that you pre-order has no impact on your ability to wait. Because the thing is--the game is unchanged. The game is still the same game. Unity is still a typical AC game. It just had a ton of bugs that Ubi has been patching. You still know what you're getting.

 

 

The problem is that most developers lies, cuts corners and hypes their games to sell more copys. Even when they know their information is full of crap

and there isn't much truth to it.  Take company X for example.. a well established developer releasing their 3rd game from a loved series, and pre-prelease

they said they were going "back to the roots" with all that made the first game so awesome.

But what they ended up releasing what a pile of crap that didn't resemble their first game much, many of the best features wasn't in the new game

and they never gave any explanation to why this was.,

 

Pre-ordering games because a developer is "known to release good stuff" is EXACTLY why it's so wrong.  Many developers are using/abusing their

established name to decieve the customers.

 

I am surprised that bungie hasn't been sued yet for lying about Destiny.

 

Anyone who followed Inquisition's development knew they weren't going back to any roots. We knew they gutted tactics. We knew they had action combat. We knew about the semi-open world.

 

If you pre-ordered without paying attention to development news, you don't have any grounds to complain about the game not being "what it said it was."


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#56
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There is no way of knowing you are getting a stable product. Reputation can only go so far.

 

Of course not. No one expects that.

 

I don't know when I buy a car that there won't be a recall that costs the company millions of dollars either.


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#57
ObserverStatus

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2qkqbfq.jpg

That is one half-assed photoshop tbh.


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#58
Vroom Vroom

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That is one half-assed photoshop tbh.

I don't have photoshop, so I had to make due with paint. 


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#59
SlottsMachine

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LOL. But half assed photoshops are the best. 



#60
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MS Paint is simply the best.



#61
mybudgee

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How do I get a ban for "spam" when this thread is happening over & over?!? Can they give him a slap on the wrist at least?

#62
2Pac

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Ill pre order from G2A any day. But ill never pre order from gamestop ever again.



#63
Wires_From_The_Wall

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How do I get a ban for "spam" when this thread is happening over & over?!? Can they give him a slap on the wrist at least?

 

You can't be ****** serious.

 

Look at half of the topics on the front page of this forum at any given moment.  This thread at least has some actual discussion going. And you complain of spam.

roflmao.

 

 

You're right--both Watch Dogs and Unity are great examples. We all knew what we were getting with those games: an open-world game with a "do X to unlock the map" mechanic, tons of little side activities that provide a complete change of pace from the story, and a mediocre-to-decent story. No one who pre-ordered either was surprised by the game's content.

 

 

 

If you pre-ordered without paying attention to development news, you don't have any grounds to complain about the game not being "what it said it was."

 

Heh. Yeah. Nature of content of an Ubisoft game most assuredly  is one of the constants of video game world. Climb on towers, unlock maps, open a ton of chests.  It is quality of content that should count here.  If we get all boring and objective here, both Watch Dogs and Unity are perceived as being mild disappointments. I think AC series is getting very reliable in every second main release being disappointing, every second as being surprisingly good. 

 

It is absolutely surreal to have to explain and justify as to why pre-ordring games is a very stupid and harmful consumer decision. Since this is an Internet argument and all, I of course realize that nothing I say here will change your mind or habits. But I would have thought people could at least acknowledge that it is a stupid thing to do.

Like " Yeah I get that it is dumb and risky from my part and abusive from ppublishers part but hey, I'm such a huge fan of the publisher and/or developer  that i really wanna show my support to them:) < - This would actually be easy to understand. Kinda like giving Kickstarter money to big publishers. 

" Ah but you see, it was actually a wise of me to do, because... " < - this..not so much.

 

There is no way determining how much or little you'll like an unreleased game when all you have to go are these.." development news". Most of such things are,  by their very design, created for sole purpose of making you like the game, not for informing you about it in some objective way. Destiny is nothing like the WoW meets Borderlands meets Halo MMO FPS halfbreed  they "informed" you about. Informative Information during news broadcast informing you of Colonial Marines kept showcasing graphics that simply are  not there. lol.

 

You get to hear selected bits and pieces about ingredients the cook uses. You have no idea what the finished product tastes like, or if the cook ends up doing good job or not.



#64
TheClonesLegacy

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You can't be ****** serious.

 

Look at half of the topics on the front page of this forum at any given moment.  This thread at least has some actual discussion going. And you complain of spam.

roflmao.

It is spam.

 

Regardless of whether you deem this as "Actual" discussion (Trust me, this is just as pointless a conversation as any other here. There's no such thing as Actual discussion or conversation). It's still the same thread the OP has made multiple times.

Video might be different, title might change, but they all generally mean the same thing.

 

I have half a mind to report him if he does this again.


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#65
SlottsMachine

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^And said previous threads are still in fact open. I guess it was too much work to dig up a week old thread. 



#66
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Heh. Yeah. Nature of content of an Ubisoft game most assuredly  is one of the constants of video game world. Climb on towers, unlock maps, open a ton of chests.  It is quality of content that should count here.  If we get all boring and objective here, both Watch Dogs and Unity are perceived as being mild disappointments. I think AC series is getting very reliable in every second main release being disappointing, every second as being surprisingly good. 

 

It is absolutely surreal to have to explain and justify as to why pre-ordring games is a very stupid and harmful consumer decision. Since this is an Internet argument and all, I of course realize that nothing I say here will change your mind or habits. But I would have thought people could at least acknowledge that it is a stupid thing to do.

Like " Yeah I get that it is dumb and risky from my part and abusive from ppublishers part but hey, I'm such a huge fan of the publisher and/or developer  that i really wanna show my support to them:) < - This would actually be easy to understand. Kinda like giving Kickstarter money to big publishers. 

" Ah but you see, it was actually a wise of me to do, because... " < - this..not so much.

 

There is no way determining how much or little you'll like an unreleased game when all you have to go are these.." development news". Most of such things are,  by their very design, created for sole purpose of making you like the game, not for informing you about it in some objective way. Destiny is nothing like the WoW meets Borderlands meets Halo MMO FPS halfbreed  they "informed" you about. Informative Information during news broadcast informing you of Colonial Marines kept showcasing graphics that simply are  not there. lol.

 

You get to hear selected bits and pieces about ingredients the cook uses. You have no idea what the finished product tastes like, or if the cook ends up doing good job or not.

 

It'd be great if you skipped all the drama and actually made some arguments. As it is, this post is:

 

mehubisoft

 

I can't believe you don't agree with me

 

cherry-picked examples of games with 2 minute long gameplay sections

 

completely wrong statement

 

I'll address each one:

 

1. You act as if that's a bad thing, when it isn't. It's a subjective thing. W_D and Unity both had their problems. Both suffer from somewhat lackluster protagonists and mediocre stories with tons of potential (W_D in particular had so much more potential, and Unity was somewhat saved by Arno+Elise). As games, however, both games are solid. I haven't played a bad AC game, though I found Freedom's Cry terribly boring.

 

2. This entire paragraph is completely meaningless. You're simply saying, "I can't believe you don't see what I see." There's nothing objective here.

 

As for your so-called statement of "I realize it's dumb and risky"--it's neither. We're talking about money, the most meaningless commodity on this planet. Money has no value, zero. it's all in your head. So there's nothing wrong with spending some as long as it's not taking away from something else. And for what it's worth, I was actually thinking a couple of days ago about how there are games that I may never play in my library, and there will probably be games that I buy that I never play or play enough, and I'm buying them to support the developers. Because I think developers who make quality content that manages to turn mainstream gameplay from combat into something else (like parkour or hacking, for example, as opposed to the ever so common gunplay or melee combat) should be noticed and appreciated.

 

3. As I said, you're cherry-picking examples. Ubisoft kicked off its Watch Dogs reveal with a ten minute gameplay trailer. One that, unfortunately, was not in the game (I wish it was, that final cutscene is amazing), and that they pulled down graphics for (I really don't know why, but I'm not a graphics wh0re anyway), but one that irrefutably represent the final game's gameplay. They had a 7 minute walkthrough just going through the city, and being involved in a random street crime--something that I encountered two days ago when playing the game. They had a trailer at E3 2013 of a mission in the game--a mission that I just started (but haven't finished) about one hour ago. They had a trailer at TGS 2013 of a mission I did on either Wednesday or Thursday. Unity's advertisement was "restricted" by the fact that each game gets announced at E3 of the release year, but nonetheless it released with a lengthy gameplay section, and featured multiple 7+ min. trailers of gameplay. Not target renders or CGI, gameplay.

 

To move beyond Ubi. Inquisition in particular got a heck of a lot of gameplay shown, on the twitch streams. Offhand I remember a PS4 one that was like 30 minutes long, and a PC one that was an hour long (those might be reversed).

 

To move to upcoming games...

 

Metal Gear Solid V, has had multiple gameplay trailers. I didn't start following development until late last year, but I know they had a trailer at E3 (unsure if it was cinematic or gameplay) and I know they had a 30 minute long gameplay section at TGS.

 

Final Fantasy XV, THE game to be suspicious of if any ought to be, received a short trailer at TGS 2014, then a ten minute gameplay section of them roaming around the map, then a video showcasing the engine (a tech demo). They also had a cinematic trailer at Jump Festa, along with two videos showcasing the game's tech (search FF XV dog cam).

 

Spare us the false equivalencies.

 

4. Incorrect. I get to SEE the places where the game comes together. I got to see in Watch Dogs the driving, the hacking, the gunplay, the police chases, the random crime events. I got to see in Unity the combat, the stealth (admittedly little of this), some of the parkour. I got to see in Inquisition the gorgeous landscapes, the dreadful action combat and lack of tactics.

 

 

I don't know where you're looking, but I see plenty of the games I'm interested in.


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#67
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Can you imagine somebody pre-ordering this game because of this trailer?

That would just be terrible


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#68
spinachdiaper

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Nobody will be able to convince people stop preordering and the next shoe to drop is when developers start shifting all physical copies into "limited special editions" only so that you will have to pre order the very moment a game is announced or go all digital. The scary eventuality is soon games will require full playment up front like how kickstarter has muddled things up and then it will go like this: First the game is announced, then everyone will have to pay for the full game and  the first season pass DLC up front so it's going to cost $100 or more, after paying then everyone will have to wait many, many years during the development phase and then when the preorder revenue stops rolling in they will cancel the game and you will get nothing, no refund, no credit to get another game, money down the drain.


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#69
Vroom Vroom

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Nobody will be able to convince people stop preordering and the next shoe to drop is when developers start shifting all physical copies into "limited special editions" only so that you will have to pre order the very moment a game is announced or go all digital. The scary eventuality is soon games will require full playment up front like how kickstarter has muddled things up and then it will go like this: First the game is announced, then everyone will have to pay for the full game and  the first season pass DLC up front so it's going to cost $100 or more, after paying then everyone will have to wait many, many years during the development phase and then when the preorder revenue stops rolling in they will cancel the game and you will get nothing, no refund, no credit to get another game, money down the drain.

Shh... 

 

Don't give them more ideas, please. 

 

I'm already sick of this pre-order bonus crap, it should be available to everyone who buys the game (especially for Arkham Knight to where you have to pre-order to play as Harley Quinn and Red Hood).

 

If/When video gaming gets to that point I'll find a new hobby. 



#70
TheChris92

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Can you imagine somebody pre-ordering this game because of this trailer?

That would just be terrible

Yeah... what idiots, am I right, heh? ... >.> - <.<



#71
TheChris92

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Shh... 

 

Don't give them more ideas, please. 

 

I'm already sick of this pre-order bonus crap, it should be available to everyone who buys the game (especially for Arkham Knight to where you have to pre-order to play as Harley Quinn and Red Hood).

 

If/When video gaming gets to that point I'll find a new hobby. 

DLC, Pre-order, Steam, they are all fine concepts in theory that ultimately get exploited by publisher greed, but their good bits to balance out the bad -- A good idea is always open for exploitation and going by the mentality of the OP, then people should also stop supporting DLC whatsoever, despite those that are worth every penny, like say the DLC for CK2 or what have you. One can't after all prevent the fact that some financially independent people just can't grasp the mindset of being smart with their money. I don't mind people being critical over the stupid practices of greedy publishers, but it's not something that is shared between all games and ultimately -- Every purchase you make is a risk, an investment, you can't ever be sure of something will go your way, you always take that one risk with every choice you make, some bigger than others. 


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#72
Dermain

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Nobody will be able to convince people stop preordering and the next shoe to drop is when developers start shifting all physical copies into "limited special editions" only so that you will have to pre order the very moment a game is announced or go all digital. The scary eventuality is soon games will require full playment up front like how kickstarter has muddled things up and then it will go like this: First the game is announced, then everyone will have to pay for the full game and  the first season pass DLC up front so it's going to cost $100 or more, after paying then everyone will have to wait many, many years during the development phase and then when the preorder revenue stops rolling in they will cancel the game and you will get nothing, no refund, no credit to get another game, money down the drain.

 

Fortunately, I'm quite sure there are laws that would allow the consumer to push a lawsuit towards the company for doing such a tactic.

 

Of course, this whole issue is pointless because people can not grasp the simple concept that video games ARE A BUSINESS

 

That is never changing, and it is highly unlikely that anything will change for the better. 

 

What is highly likely that companies will raise the price of video games from $59 to $79 or even $100 to finally account for the rising cost of making the product in the first place. The cost to make video games has skyrocketed into the hundred thousands while the price to buy a video game has remained the same for two generations now. Previously, with every new console generation video games rose in cost. They went from being $39  to $49, from $49 to $59 and they have remained there for quite some time. 

 

Pre-orders are encouraged, especially the limited editions which have now (for most games) gone to $120 in an attempt to balance this out. The faster the game gets out the door the less the overall budget is going to be.

 

The "benefit" of the digital age is that we can now buy DLC for the game which then adds new content for the game, while increasing the revenue. Which also helps account for the price for most games remaining $59. If a game has four DLC all costing roughly $10 then the price of the original game is now $99 with the benefit of not having to pay the full $99 at once. 

 

Unless of course that's what you're arguing for...

 

In case some one wants to argue "Well they're releasing buggy games". They are, again entirely for economic reasons. Ironing out all of the bugs before the initial release would be great, but that also increases the games overall budget which all ready high enough. It's a consequence of the price of video games remaining at $59. 



#73
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What is highly likely that companies will raise the price of video games from $59 to $79 or even $100 to finally account for the rising cost of making the product in the first place. The cost to make video games has skyrocketed into the hundred thousands while the price to buy a video game has remained the same for two generations now. Previously, with every new console generation video games rose in cost. They went from being $39  to $49, from $49 to $59 and they have remained there for quite some time. 

 

If this happens I'm gonna laugh if consumers start whining about it since it's partially their fault this is happening in the first place. Consumers demand increasingly technical games which need to be met with new hardware advancement. And game development costs rise.


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#74
Il Divo

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If this happens I'm gonna laugh if consumers start whining about it since it's partially their fault this is happening in the first place. Consumers demand increasingly technical games which need to be met with new hardware advancement. And game development costs rise.

 

If? Honestly, I already see it happen all the time when day 1 (or any) dlc is brought up. "I'm already paying $60 for this game, it should be complete!" or "It's less value for your money!". But the possibility that dlc is being used as an alternative to simply increasing the price of games across the board isn't considered valid. 

 

Really, dlc offers an opportunity for modular game design, if done correctly, where gamers can pay for content they find enjoyable/interesting and ignore content they dislike. 


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#75
Wires_From_The_Wall

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It'd be great if you skipped all the drama and actually made some arguments. As it is, this post is:

 

 

 

Thank you very much for taking time to analyze and review my post so thoroughly, it makes an incredibly valuable addition to this topic.

 

What you or I think of Watch Dogs or Unity or Destiny is pretty subjective and as such, equally valuable and worthless.  General consensus  in Internet among people who have reviewed these games is that of mild disappointment. From what I've seen, same applies to people who bought the games, too. Latter is harder to prove, since obviously you find as many examples as you could possibly need for any imaginable amount of love or hate for these games. 

 

 

 Since you evidently are very  interested in harder arguments I'd make about the matter, I' very happy to be able to inform you that I outlined mine sentiments in post#20 of this thread.  I'll sum things up for your pleasure:
 

If enough people remain convinced  pre-ordering or buying on day1 is smart,  Publisher can easily end up in situation where value of hype is greater than value of a good game. Marketing and advertisement budgets are already utterly obscene, and are starting to rival actual development costs of games. For a publisher, making people convinced game is good can be better investment than making sure developer studio has necessary time and resources  to make the game good.

 

Pre-ordering (or buying on day one, for that matter) trivializes the tradition of trusting on reviews (peer, pro or otherwise) to tell you if the game is awesome. Instead, you choose to  trust on Publisher's PR machine to tell if the game is awesome. (spoiler: It is actually going to be the best.game.ever. As evident from those awesome 10 minute video clips. It will forever  change the way you view the genre. No matter which game we speak of.)

 

When you combine all of the above with digital distribution and modern ease and convenience in making an impulse purchase, it leads to a situation where Hype is a huge, dominant monster that completely overshadows every other aspect of  and around the game. First hand user experiences, reviews, even whether the game is actually good or properly finished..these things matter less and less. Publisher can lessen it's attention to this stuff. Focusing on marketing machine can be better value for their money. 

 

 

It is absolutely surreal we, as  consumers,  can have this argument. I can't believe you don't agree with me, just as you said!