Likely, about the alcohol. xD
And very suave about the making out. I'm doubting that you're not exceptional, though.And I think that it wouldn't matter if there were gay bars, because there's also no techno. Kidding.
The flirt options are meant to show deliberate, personal, romantic interest in the other character. Are you really surprised that Dorian would respond to that? Or that your inquisitor would be genuinely into it if you chose that option?
Yes, I was surprised. There are flirt options for non-romance characters, like your scout Harding, that reports to you in the field. I always saw my flirting with her as the sort of flirting that happens between James Bond and Moneypenny. Nothing serious, just having fun. Otherwise, my heart would be aching for every single person I've flirted with in the game. Even with the romance characters, the flirt lines are pretty innocuous.
Not saying I wanted a prompt that said "This will make you kiss him," but a little heads up would have been nice, like when it gives you the heads up that you're about to start a romance, or that you're about to deny someone joining your inner circle. Which is why I was all the more surprised when it actually did give me the prompt. I was kind of like, "That would have been useful about five minutes ago..."
I think part of the problem with portraying realistic people, relationships, and sexualities is, well... I don't want to come off as rude because you have valid points, and I understand where you're coming from but...
...
In a video game (and in RPGs especially) there are limits to how you can respond to a situation or conversation. If you're picking the heart-flirt options consistently for a character, in a Bioware game that means you are pursuing that character romantically. At least with Bioware nowadays. I prefer this, because how you respond to someone will actually have some discernable and predictable effect. Both Kotor and Jade Empire could trigger romantic subplots without the player really meaning to, and the Baldur's Gate series seems almost more trouble than its worth to try to pursue a romance with a companion.
About Harding, yeah, I kind of figured that it was that kind of flirting. I think I saw some other flirts that happened with other non-romance NPCs, and figured that it could be the case here, but perhaps that was a poor assumption on my part.
Regarding the video-gameness, that's fair. There is a limit to what you can convey with a conversation wheel. 
But yes, I think the lack of a prompt probably threw me a bit, because there was a prompt / warning for almost everything else in Inquisition, when there hadn't been before in previous games.
Also, I loved the romances in Baldur's Gate. Oh, the love triangles... xD That is, when they didn't bug out and just not happen any more.
-S
To this day I have to say the 'best' depiction of homosexual relationships in videogames (specifically fantasy RPG's) has been found in... Skyrim.
No, seriously.
It's there and that's awesome. No fanfare, no fuss. It's not a 'thing.' Want to marry a guy or a girl? Go for it.
I fully realize that Bioware is on a whole other level in their depiction of relationships, and I am not accusing them of mishandling their representation of diverse romantic interests (of which I think they did an awesome job by the way) And Skyrim's relationship system is... shallow, to say the least. But with Skyrim, there it is. No, really, that's it. Just... there it is.
I think the kiss was rather abrupt, but I wasn't put off by it. More surprised that that was when it happened. As for depictions of gay men, as was said, we've only had two, so there isn't enough to say there's a pattern yet.
Abrupt indeed. xD
The situation I see here is that it's merely an extension of an already established pattern in games. But insofar as Bioware is concerned, at least they're trying. But I swear, if there's a gay character in ME4 that wears pink and whose main character trait is "likes men," I swear... xD
To this day I have to say the 'best' depiction of homosexual relationships in videos (specifically fantasy RPG's) has been found in... Skyrim.
No, seriously.
It's there and that's awesome. No fanfare, no fuss. It's not a 'thing.' Want to marry a guy or a girl? Go for it.
I fully realize that Bioware is on a whole other level in their depiction of relationships, and I am not accusing them of mishandling their representation of a diverse romnatic interest (of which I think they did an awesome job by the way) And Skyrim's relationship system is... shallow, to say the least. But with Skyrim, there it is. No, really, that's it. Just... there it is.
That's true. That was actually a very natural way to do it. As you say, it just is, which is kind of what I prefer.
-S
The problem is that it is the OP that brings the sexuality and not the personality of the character into the issue.
Cassandra is insecure, she is always second guessing herself, brooding over her decisions...
Josephine overanalyzes everything and is always obsessing over details...
Leliana is emotionally scarred from betrayals earlier in her life...
Dorian is confident, he has no regrets and knows exactly who he is and what he wants...
Which of these four characters is likely going to be the one that simply grabs someone and kisses them right on the spot? It has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with personality...
Yes, I was surprised. There are flirt options for non-romance characters, like your scout Harding, that reports to you in the field. I always saw my flirting with her as the sort of flirting that happens between James Bond and Moneypenny. Nothing serious, just having fun. Otherwise, my heart would be aching for every single person I've flirted with in the game. Even with the romance characters, the flirt lines are pretty innocuous.
Not saying I wanted a prompt that said "This will make you kiss him," but a little heads up would have been nice, like when it gives you the heads up that you're about to start a romance, or that you're about to deny someone joining your inner circle. Which is why I was all the more surprised when it actually did give me the prompt. I was kind of like, "That would have been useful about five minutes ago..."
-S
The problem is that it is the OP that brings the sexuality and not the personality of the character into the issue.
Cassandra is insecure, she is always second guessing herself, brooding over her decisions...
Josephine overanalyzes everything and is always obsessing over details...
Leliana is emotionally scarred from betrayals earlier in her life...
Dorian is confident, he has no regrets and knows exactly who he is and what he wants...
Which of these four characters is likely going to be the one that simply grabs someone and kisses them right on the spot? It has nothing to do with sexuality, it has to do with personality...
It sounds like you're saying that he has that personality and that he just happens to be gay. That would be somewhat understandable if he hadn't been deliberately written that way. Why make the one gay-only male character in a high-profile game (which was covered extensively in gaming news, regarding his sexuality) overtly sexual and prone to face grabbing?
I mean, it's not like it was only his fault. I was also apparently written in as the type of Inquisitor who would react like that as well. "I think highly of you because you're attracted to men," *facegrab*. I actually chose that option to say because one seemed condescending, and the others just didn't fit me. Part of my "Aaaaaagh" reaction was that it made me seem like I was taking advantage of the situation, of Dorian's temporary vulnerability, somehow. 
It definitely made me feel like the Inquisitor had a bit of a rape-y vibe. :| Not that there's almost always an option to sleep with anything or anything in recent Bioware games... xD Thanks, ME.
Summary: I find it odd that the writers decided to make that particular scenario / method the one where the two gay males get together.
-S
Still. I guess I do get what you're saying to some degree. That's the problem with these summarized dialogue options - you never quite know what will come of it until you actually click them.
It sounds like you're saying that he has that personality and that he just happens to be gay. That would be somewhat understandable if he hadn't been deliberately written that way. Why make the one gay-only male character in a high-profile game (which was covered extensively in gaming news, regarding his sexuality) overtly sexual and prone to face grabbing?
I mean, it's not like it was only his fault. I was also apparently written in as the type of Inquisitor who would react like that as well. "I think highly of you because you're attracted to men," *facegrab*. I actually chose that option to say because one seemed condescending, and the others just didn't fit me. Part of my "Aaaaaagh" reaction was that it made me seem like I was taking advantage of the situation, of Dorian's temporary vulnerability, somehow.
Summary: I find it odd that the writers decided to make that particular scenario / method the one where the two gay males get together.
-S
Making a confident, affirmative, charismatic character that is gay is an odd choice? Would it somehow have been more believable if they made Cole into a gay character?
Making a confident, affirmative, charismatic character that is gay is an odd choice? Would it somehow have been more believable if they made Cole into a gay character?
It's not really about the character's personality, it's more about how the writers assumed two gay men would act around each other once they figured out the other was gay. Instant sex. It seems like they are basing their writing on what they think gay people are like as described by a passerby. File it under the "women's clothing should be designed by actual clothes designers" section of complaints. xD
-S
It's not really about the character's personality, it's more about how the writers assumed two gay men would act around each other once they figured out the other was gay. Instant sex. It seems like they are basing their writing on what they think gay people are like as described by a passerby.
-S
Well I more interpret it as this is the way this gay character would act based on his personality, without making any assumptions that any other gay character that they introduce would act in a similar way...as I said I think it is you as a viewer that puts too much focus on labeling him as a stereotype based on his sexuality alone, rather than understanding his actions based on a deeper and more complex understanding of his personality.
I dunno. In DA:O would it have been obvious from the plain text what was meant? I don't recall what the actual lines were with Harding.
I dunno, you mentioned 3 "good" romances that were all basically the same thing (although I do love Cass, Josie and Leli) woo them, protect them/save them... so you're upset that the homosexual romances aren't like that as well? I like that there's a variation in how the romances play out, personally. I can kind of see what you mean though, if you're saying you want the s/s romances to mix it up a little and eventually have a 'Cassandra' type romance arc. I would be all for that, as well as having a straight romance that isn't all cutesy and standard. That is definitely something they're kinda being repetitive about by now, and I'd quite like some tropes to be cut off eventually.
But I can't forgive you on your comment about Sera's nose. Her button nose is damn adorable, how dare you.
@Silvarren
You know, the thing is, I too was a bit surprised by the sudden forwardness of my Inquisitor when I did the Dorian romance (it didn't bother me though because, well, I was intending to romance him). I find myself arguing against you though because I take exception to the language you used in your OP. Violated? Mouth-rape? Come on. All that happened is that you made a choice that had an unexpected effect. Which, true, can be annoying, but it's hardly worth language like that.
You know, speaking of Anders..I think they should've left him alone. In Awakening he seemed very much straight, he hit on women quite a lot and mentioned how he wanted a good ole girl or something of the like, yet in 2 he became bisexual. When it comes to personality and sexuality, I think Anders got pretty butchered lol
Eh I think it can be argued either way. Sexuality and gender are kinda defined as fluid things, so it's not crazy to think that Anders might have changed his outlook over the years, or that he necessarily only ever liked women (I would imagine that there are some people who are bi who might prefer one gender over the other, without necessarily restricting themselves to just that one gender, however)
I don't see the problem. Most gay men I know are aggressive about pursuing what they want once interest is shown. That's just how men are in general.
My biggest issue with Dorian was his "Freddy Mercury" look. I mean, Jebus, how stereotypical can they get? I would have been much happier if they had made him look more like Cullen or any of the other typical human males NPCs that play a major/important role in the DA series.
"Mouth Rape"
ROTFLMAO! That's funny.
Though.. in all fairness, I've experienced the "instantly sucking face" phenomenon, in real life, many times. Women can be just as aggressive as men.
To this day I have to say the 'best' depiction of homosexual relationships in videogames (specifically fantasy RPG's) has been found in... Skyrim.
No, seriously.
It's there and that's awesome. No fanfare, no fuss. It's not a 'thing.' Want to marry a guy or a girl? Go for it.
I fully realize that Bioware is on a whole other level in their depiction of relationships, and I am not accusing them of mishandling their representation of diverse romantic interests (of which I think they did an awesome job by the way) And Skyrim's relationship system is... shallow, to say the least. But with Skyrim, there it is. No, really, that's it. Just... there it is.
I agree 100% and I am gay, why does bioware seem to go overboard with things, ones sexual orientation doesn't define you, YOU define you
Disclaimer: I did not read all of the previous posts, just the first few.
I agree that there should be a bit more choice as far as a gay KISA (see thread http://forum.bioware...hl= gay knight it's been heavily discussed though I didn't participate.) But as far as the interaction and romancing scripts go, it sounds like the tactics are not only typical of the genders (i.e. females requiring more work to get with and males being pretty easy to get into bed) and also typical of the characters' personalities and backgrounds.
Looking at Zevran, to put it quite simply, he's generally a **** of a man. He even says so, many times in conversation. Sex is fairly casual.
With Fenris, he's very reserved and uncertain.
With Anders, he's just a big old mess in DA2, there's a lot more going on in his head than making out with Hawke.
For Bull, sex is also casual, Qunari and such.
For Dorian, he states himself in game that he never gave thought to sex being more than casual with another man.
I can't comment on the female relationships, since I don't really care all that much. But in my own experience as a gay man, what Dragon Age has presented has been fairly accurate in depiction in my opinion.
There is no realistic depiction of any group in DA universe simply because there are not enough characters to portrait it.
Cassandra - Strong, passionate about justice, tough on the outside, soft on the inside. Romanced by treating her like a woman. Requires the protection of her life to romance.
Josephine - Exotic, comes from nobility, has integrity, has a little bit of a school-girlish demeanor when it comes to relationships. Requires the player to play the hero and protect her.
Leiliana - Again, strong, different, kind of special, secretive, talented, caring, romantic. Requires protecting her life to romance her.
One could argue that these are not realistic, normal or even desirable characteristics/pattern, btw.
Besides all of the above responses and arguments, there is not- in the real world or otherwise- an exact, 100% depiction of any type of life because everyone is different. Even if some may fall into stereotypes along the way.
Myself, for example, have been the slutty club-goer taking home a stranger for a romp. I have been the insecure shy guy, I have been the 'I know what I want and I'm going to be assertive about it' type. Currently I am the reclusive type that wants romance, but has no desire to go searching for it and doesn't trust anyone who offers it because I know its a lie and they just want sex.
Got to say i didn't find the kiss with Dorian at all abrupt. That said, in the playthrough that i romanced him he was the only character my inquisitor flirted with (well apart from Cullen in Haven - because I couldn't not). So maybe I was expecting the kiss more than someone who was flirting with lots of characters?
It didn't feel to me as though it was 'you're both gay so of course you're going to kiss', just seemed like the guy you had repeatedly expressed attraction to responded.
I was fine with Dorian. He's confident and flirty, but also insecure and pained thanks to issues with his father and past affairs. When you get with him, he makes it clear that he's hoping your relationship will be more than just a fling. In his homeland, romances between two men are nothing more than brief passions, mainly out of necessity. The idea that he can settle down and find love with your character clearly delights him, but also kind of scares him. In my opinion, he's written rather well. Sure, it's a little rushed, but that's only because romances are secondary concerns in this game, not the main focus.
As for his "tongue" comments? He was clearly trying to antagonize and shock that gossiping prude Mother Giselle, and with good reason.
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