Sera and Solas mirror each other so perfectly in this regard. They grouse about being categorized by their race yet do it the most of all the companions. Guys, I love y'all, but give it a rest, yeah?
My Dalish would take them out together so they could b**** at each other rather than at her.
Sera is funnier though.
Nothing! Who told you I did anything with Cole? They're lying!!!
Oh, wait you mean.....So, yeah, I went with human first time through, might go spirit this time - or not.
I made him more Spirit. I don't know, that's just what he -is-. He's a Spirit of Compassion that accidentally got turned into a dying boy. I know it's more complicated than that, but I just can't make him more human.
And generally I trust my boy Solas on everything (especially when they're spirit-related). Which will probably bite me in the ass sometime in the future but who knows.
Human
I wanted to turn him into a demon >
A compassion Demon >
"I see you are wounded, Red Templar Marksman. Here Let me help you."
And I know you just heard that in Cole's voice.
How horrifying.
I made him more Spirit. I don't know, that's just what he -is-. He's a Spirit of Compassion that accidentally got turned into a dying boy. I know it's more complicated than that, but I just can't make him more human.
And generally I trust my boy Solas on everything (especially when they're spirit-related). Which will probably bite me in the ass sometime in the future but who knows.
You have made a grave mistake.
Corypheus trying to bind human cole
oh man
i want to bring in a cole to the final after not doing his quest :DD
oh man
i want to bring in a cole to the final after not doing his quest :DD
You can't he won't go and he's unavailable in the party selection.
You have made a grave mistake.
Maybe, maybe not. Depends on whether I decide to join him!
I made him more human. I totally agreed with Varric that he started changing the moment he made himself human, and I really loved the outcome. I might try to go spirit to see what he is like on my next playthrough. I am playing a mage, so it makes sense that she would see him that way. But the great thing about this decision is that a valid argument can be made for either choice.
Spirit.
We have enough humans here already. Too many, in fact.
I would rather not lose his perspective as a spirit.
I never liked the Cole I read about in Asunder, and it was clear Cole was something Solas had not encountered before, so I figured Varric was the best option. Cole made himself human and attempting to de-humanize him seemed like a backwards choice to me.
Everyone has biases. Varric doesn't understand the fade like Solas does. His experiences with it weren't good ones so his stance is understandable. However, Varric knows Cole is/was a spirit but doesn't judge him on it like a lot of the other characters do. He judges Cole based on who he is and how he presents himself.
... while outright denying that Cole is a spirit, making a false claim as to his motivations to become human (born out of ignorance, but still false), and being so narrow-minded in his "humans are better" outlook that he's too dejected to see more-a-spirit Cole's happiness because it's not what he wants for his friend.
Meanwhile, Solas-- who as I said, is also undeniably biased and fallible -- at least has something positive to say about more-human Cole, instead of being nothing but mopey over not getting what he wanted.
One could call that writer's bias, an implicit agreement that the human path is better even though Weekes said he changed his mind about humanity as the "win condition". (Thankfully ... I'd have hated that, because as I said, I loathe that commonplace "humans are the best, humanity is the greatest prize" trope.) Or one could call it character bias, a sign of Varric's greater inflexibility. I like Varric quite a lot, usually, but in this issue I think he's not showing his best side though his intentions are good.
Solas does concede when he realizes he was wrong (a wonderful quality to be sure). Except he only concedes in this issue with that one person, yet still maintains his position on his overall view of the group they come from. As plenty of people do in real life. It shows that he doesn't have the answers to everything and as wise as he is, he still has a way to go.
Oh, definitely. I understand where he's coming from because people often are narrow-minded, predictable and brutish. But that doesn't mean that I didn't want to shove his own staff up his rear when he gave me the "you are not like other humans, I respect you" spiel because that sort of thing is never, ever a true compliment. (Also, he was definitely unfair to Cassandra in that same balcony cutscene, especially if you get it after already having heard his more thoughtful, mutually friendly and supportive banters with her.)
... while outright denying that Cole is a spirit, making a false claim as to his motivations to become human (born out of ignorance, but still false), and being so narrow-minded in his "humans are better" outlook that he's too dejected to see more-a-spirit Cole's happiness because it's not what he wants for his friend.
Meanwhile, Solas-- who as I said, is also undeniably biased and fallible -- at least has something positive to say about more-human Cole, instead of being nothing but mopey over not getting what he wanted.
One could call that writer's bias, an implicit agreement that the human path is better even though Weekes said he changed his mind about humanity as the "win condition". (Thankfully ... I'd have hated that, because as I said, I loathe that commonplace "humans are the best, humanity is the greatest prize" trope.) Or one could call it character bias, a sign of Varric's greater inflexibility. I like Varric quite a lot, usually, but in this issue I think he's not showing his best side though his intentions are good.
I disagree with this. I don't think Varric was making a false claim and I don't remember him denying that Cole was originally a spirit. Yet, Cole has grown into more than that, that's why the talisman didn't work. Varric sees this. Solas clings to the fact that Cole was, in origin, a spirit and so he must stay as such or he will become corrupt. He fails to see that Cole has evolved. Varric's saddened by making Cole more spirit-like because that Cole has lost that complexity he was gradually achieving. A complexity that was achieved through experience and learning.
It feels that taking Cole down that route, at least to me, was someone giving up on a something more because the journey was uncomfortable. He reverts back to being in this comfortable spot, safe and secure. However, in order to achieve great things in life and become more than our current selves, we must go through these experiences and endure in order to succeed.
If Cole was "just a spirit", I would've completely agreed with Solas, but he's not anymore. That's what this crossroad is all about.
I pretty much ignore Cole. I mean, I want to have him available, but I didn't do much to learn more about him. Maybe on my next play through...
Varric denies that Cole is a spirit at least twice, and before they even know about the templar he also says "he came into this world to be a person" which is entirely made up. The amulet originally doesn't work because Cole is bound to his "killer's" pain which is also his own, not because he's become too human -- Varric is wrong about that too, and that casual ignorance could have been very dangerous. He sees what he wants to see, and I honestly think it doesn't reflect too well on him that he doesn't even try to see the good in the spirit path, while Solas does make that attempt when the positions are reversed.
As I said, both of them are biased because both ignore that Cole isn't just one thing or the other. It's true that he's not "just a spirit" but he also very much isn't "just a human". There's denial both ways, and I just don't like the automatic human tendency to say "of course we are the best". That's what it feels like if one looks at Cole's story with humanity as the ultimate prize, the "win condition", instead of only one possible and desirable outcome. Or if one thinks that more-human-Cole doesn't lose something, isn't diminished in some way just as more-spirit Cole does and is.
I think Cole would become very sad if he no longer had the ability to read people's mind.
All he want to do is help.
Removing his spirit being will remove his ability to get into other people's mind. He will no longer be able to help in the right way but have to guess like anyone else.
I made him human. I don't want him going back to the Fade I want him to stay. /heh
And then I keep him under my armpit and pat him with much much love
@Mushashi7: He can still do it, but it's quite a bit harder and doesn't go as deep. On the spirit path, his empathy and sensitivity go through the roof. Gotta love how thoroughly non-judgmental he is about it, too -- he's just as happy to help someone forgive as he is to encourage a guy to ask his wife for a little kink in the bedroom.
(Which is partly why I don't get it when people act like Cole doesn't know what sex is, or that he needs to be protected from it -- or alternatively, given The Talk -- like a little kid. He just has absolutely no hangups about it, nor does he read sex into everything like people tend to do, i.e. Blackwall in the knife banter.)
@Pasta: I don't want to lose him, either. It'd be hugely painful ... That worry is part of the challenge of accepting, understanding and appreciating the more-spirit-like Cole, though. I want that challenge, so I gotta live with the worry. On the other hand, the worry that he could lose his special sensitivity and abilities altogether in the long run is the "price" for the more-human path.
Made him a spirit.....cose Varric had no busness in this at all . Wanna help the 'Kid'...yeah right . Go back to writing fanfic Varric....seriously .
I chose human; not because I believe being human is superior necessarily, but the fact that being human allows him to change and grow and overall do his "spirit of compassion" gig a lot better than being a simple spirit. Afterall, the human element allows him to be more empathetic and understanding toward others, I think.
Though I would argue that he was always human, and that the question was, "should he be more introspective of himself?" It never felt that much of a debate to begin with. If Cole became another Anders, well, he's already told us to go ahead and put him down if he became bad.
The whole choice reflects your morals and beliefs, not really challenging them in any meaningful way. Always felt like grey areas were not Bioware's strong suit ever since DA2 : /
I think both paths are good and bad, in different ways.
On the human path, he learns how to help people by understanding their emotions. It's more difficult for him, but it also helps him to understand how his words/actions affect other people. It also helps them, because they know that someone cares enough to help them, and means that they can grow as people, overcome their problems, etc. I like that there is so much potential for him on this path, and love hearing his thoughts on how he wiped his own memories to protect himself from pain. On the other hand, I feel like I've robbed him of the benefits/abilities of being a spirit, perhaps stopped him from being able to return to the Fade if he wished, and generally put him on a path that could cause a lot of struggle and pain. The fact he can happily go to a restaurant with you and apparently not notice all the 'hurts' around him makes me feel like he's lost that aspect of his spirit nature, even if the kindness remains. Plus, I always feel like it suggests you don't really accept him as a spirit, you can only accept him if he tries harder to be human.
On the spirit path, he can help so many more people because he becomes more perceptive of their troubles, and because of him erasing his own memories, he doesn't have to carry the pain of any of it with him. He's able to finally let go of what happened with the original Cole, and on the whole seems a lot happier. During the outing to Val Royeaux, he seems happier than I've ever seen him, and part of that is knowing that you've accepted him for who he is - something he laments that even Rhys couldn't do. He's true to his original nature. The drawbacks to it are that if he wipes his own memories, he can never learn from his own experiences, meaning that something like his situation with the original Cole could happen again. I always fear that if he stays outside the Fade on this path, he might suffer the same fate as Justice. Although he can help more people, his help might not strike them as deeply as it might if they could remember.
I really like both paths, and I'm happy to do either depending on the personality/motivations of my Inquisitor. But, there is one thing I'm not as keen on with the spirit path - the last conversation in Skyhold. If Cole's more human, he stresses about the original Cole, the Inquisitor comforts him and he's appreciative of it. That's nicely supported by the way they end up sitting together on the wall. If he's more spirit, however, he wipes his memories of the original Cole, and when the Inquisitor asks if he's okay, he just replies in this deadpan voice something like 'You can keep using that name if you like, I'll stay here and help'. It really freaked me out, how odd he sounded. And the Inquisitor just... walks off. If there was no more dialogue, then they could've just ended the scene on that odd line. But no, he's stood facing away from the Inquisitor, and they just walk off. It just seems a bit... cold in comparison to the human ending to the same conversation.
I made him more human. It weakens his powers, and in the long term will make it easier to rid the world of the abomination.
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