208 réponses à ce sujet

[VanguardCharge]

I hated "In Your Heart Shall Burn". The Disney song in the end and Cory's stupidity (pulling the Harbinger in ME3's suicide run?) were only parts of the problem. The thing I hated the most was the lack of emotion toward the destruction of Haven. 

 

This was supposed to be the Inquisition's big lose, with Cory winning the battle and us scrambling. Instead, we got a new badass base. At what price? The researcher and the bar maid with whom I had a single conversation and the chantry dude who wanted me imprisoned? Instead of feeling like I lost a battle, I felt rewarded with a new base. Oh, and I found out that my arch-nemesis is stupid. 

 

In my opinion, this could've been solved with a meaninful death at Haven. Perhaps a special someone holds back Cory while you escape because you are the chosen one and must survive? Well, I got a candidate for that. One of my favorite characters in the game. 

 

Cassandra. 

 

Cassandra serves a guide in the first third of the game, giving you vital information of the first Inquisition and the Seekers. She is compassionate toward you even if you don't believe in the Maker. She is very likeable. Hell, she would make for an excellent leader for the Inquisition. To me, it doesn't really make sense why you're the Inquisitor if she's around. 

 

Making her the Duncan of the Inquisition would raise the stakes and actually make the PC feel something toward Cory after " In Your Heart". 

 

EDIT: No, I don't think that killing a  character is the only way to signify lose at Haven. 

 

" Let's look at AC: Revelations (damn you BioWare for making me bring up the AC franchise as a storytelling role model). In the beginning, your fort is surprise attacked by an enemy (And you defend your fort with cannons. And then your people use ancient tunnels to escape. Sounds familiar?). 

 

During that attack, we are introduced with the villain who steals your most prized possession (an artifact that controls time and physics or something?), kidnaps your lover and kills your uncle. 

 

I did not care about my uncle's death. Or the deaths of the people who couldn't escape. What I cared about was the fact that the villain stole my most prized possession and I was thrown into a foreign city with out an immediate base, losing all my resources, including cool weapons and armor. 

 

In Inquisition, you lose a cleric who has a change of heart when mortally wounded and random NPC with whom you can have a single conversation, off screen. A cut scene and song later, you get a new, improved base. And you are named the boss. I didn't feel like I lost the battle. I felt rewarded. 

 

For this, I can blame poor pacing. We could've had a quest or two with our soldiers being miserable in the cold mountains, perhaps a quest of finding Skyhold. Our mark could've been disabled for a time. But getting rid of one of the many companions in this game would've been easier and tis something that BioWare is known for (DA2, ME1).

" 

 

[Nimlowyn]

You're forgetting Chancellor Roderick.

 

I thought Chancellor Roderick's death was a very meaningful death. Someone who was fighting against you and then realizes they were wrong at the critical moment is a powerful character. He "saw the light" as it were, and his faith is restored and renewed in you when he remembered the path that would allow your escape. (When he tells you "perhaps I was shown this path to help you" is, to me, one of the most moving moments in the game). He succumbed to his injuries once people had fled to safety. His sacrifice was integral to the Inquisition.

 

I prefer that Cassandra survived so that we could experience more of her story. I think the writer's made the right call on that one.

 

I'm sorry you didn't like the song. I know some did, some didn't. I thought it was beautiful. In Your Heart Shall Burn is my favorite mission, hands down.

[Ogillardetta]

Fixing the best quest in the game? Why? Why not fix something else?

[TheExtreamH]

What are you smoking, In your heart, shall burn is by far one of the best moments of Inquisition. You finally see the big bad walking glass face and his forces of Red Templars/Mages. Your going up against impossible odds yet the Inquisitor stands and fights to give his people chance to escape. You than say theirs no emotion? Dawn will come is meant to show that no matter what happened, a new day will come. The characters moan haven yet they know that they must move forward to meet the threat they face.

 

Personally i think Duncan's sacrifice is a little blown out of the water with it being the First real death in the Dragon Age Series. If you want a more heart breaking scene Kill Hawke and talk to Varric.

That's my opinion .

[Nimlowyn]

What are you smoking, In your heart, shall burn is by far one of the best moments of Inquisition. You finally see the big bad walking glass face and his forces of Red Templars/Mages. Your going up against impossible odds yet the Inquisitor stands and fights to give his people chance to escape. You than say theirs no emotion? Dawn will come is meant to show that no matter what happened, a new day will come. The characters moan haven yet they know that they must move forward to meet the threat they face.

 

Personally i think Duncan's sacrifice is a little blown out of the water with it being the First real death in the Dragon Age Series. If you want a more heart breaking scene Kill Hawke and talk to Varric.

That's my opinion .

When I spoke with Varric after Hawke's sacrifice I burst into terrible sobs and didn't play for the next two days. 

 

Edit: And this was my 1000th post woohooo!!!!

[VanguardCharge]

You're forgetting Chancellor Roderick.

 

I thought Chancellor Roderick's death was a very meaningful death. Someone who was fighting against you and then realizes they were wrong at the critical moment. He "saw the light" as it were, and his faith is restored and renewed in you when he remembered the path that would allow your escape. It was because of him that so many people were allowed to escape. He succumbed to his injuries once they were safe. His sacrifice is integral to the Inquisition's survival.

 

I prefer that Cassandra survived so that we could experience more of her story. I think the writer's made the right call on that one.

 

I'm sorry you didn't like the song. I know some did, some didn't. I thought it was beautiful. In Your Heart Shall Burn is my favorite mission, hands down.

 

I mentioned Roderick as the "chantry dude who wanted me imprisoned". Goes to show how much of an imprint he made in my 2 playthroughs. 

 

Roderick was a plot device for the "secret pathway under chantry" reveal. I don't really see "sacrifice' he made since he was already mortally wounded. He is not really giving anything up. Hell, revealing a safe way logically increases his chances of survival because being injured while under attack <<< being injured in a tunnel. 

[TheExtreamH]

When I spoke with Varric after Hawke's sacrifice I burst into terrible sobs and didn't play for the next two days. 

Thankfully i never did it. I love my miss Hawke. But i wanted it on YouTube, God it was painful to see Varric like that. 

[Nimlowyn]

Thankfully i never did it. I love my miss Hawke. But i wanted it on YouTube, God it was painful to see Varric like that. 

I have to choose between Alistair and Hawke. I have to have my heart broken over and over again, lol. If I had to choose Stroud instead I'd be like kthanxbai Stroud haha. X)

[Mann42]

I have to disagree.

 

Struggling to save people around Haven, watching Roderick's revelation, the multiple stages to the battle, the confrontation with Corypheus, the trudge through the snow into blank nothingness, the tension and argument among my companions about the loss...

 

Then, after all that, admist the tension, "The Dawn Will Come" starts, and it all culminates in tears. I'm crying! At a video game.

 

The song finishes and I'm ready. Let's kick Corphytits' ass. Show me where the new crib is, Solas!

[Lee T]

The same holds true for the In Media Res beginning of the game. We don't know who we are and why we're here unless we read the codex, and we have no clue who are the people who died and if we should care about them. Did we had friends there or were they all strangers, I don't know.

Contrary to the beginning of pretty much every Bioware Game I've played before, I felt completely uninvested in the story.

I had to wait for the Alexius mission to actually feel the stakes.

As for The demise of Haven a little bit of action would have helped, we should have had to actively help the few people we knew, have to make priority choices, see the people die in front of us, sometimes as a direct consequence of our choices, rather than being told about it afterward'

Also, following Haven, the revocation of Threnn should be discussed with the council. There should be an opportunity for us to push for the change or defend her.

[TheExtreamH]

I have to choose between Alistair and Hawke. I have to have my heart broken over and over again, lol. If I had to choose Stroud instead I'd be like kthanxbai Stroud haha. X)

lucky i had to choose between the Great Mustache and Hawke, Easy choice. 

[Precursor Meta]

Cassandra seems like the ideal leader of the inquisition. But I guess that was the game's way of making you feel important.


It's extremely weird when you outright deny being a Herald of Andraste and denounce the Maker but somehow end up leading the people who believe in just that.

[Ashagar]

In your heart shall burn is one of the best quests in the game including the song, if you don't like it its likely due to you taste and it was dramatic enough without a pointless death that serves no purpose.

[VanguardCharge]

Fixing the best quest in the game? Why? Why not fix something else?

 

Someone needs to tell me why this is the best quest in the game. 

What are you smoking, In your heart, shall burn is by far one of the best moments of Inquisition. You finally see the big bad walking glass face and his forces of Red Templars/Mages. Your going up against impossible odds yet the Inquisitor stands and fights to give his people chance to escape. You than say theirs no emotion? Dawn will come is meant to show that no matter what happened, a new day will come. The characters moan haven yet they know that they must move forward to meet the threat they face.

 

Personally i think Duncan's sacrifice is a little blown out of the water with it being the First real death in the Dragon Age Series. If you want a more heart breaking scene Kill Hawke and talk to Varric.

That's my opinion .

 

The big bad goes full retard and lectures you  of his intentions instead of killing you, while you bury him under the snow. My view of Cory's intelligence went way down after that. It fell to rock button after it was revealed that he was too stupid to lock the doors while harassing the Divine.

 

You go against "impossible odds" and yet you

 

+ Learn of your villain's intentions

+ Destroy a vast portion of your villain's forces 

+ Get an improved base 

+ A ****** promotion as the lead Inquisitor 

+ A mother ****** throne 

 

- Lose a bar maid, a researcher and the guy who wanted your head until the base is under attack 

 

What emotions am I supposed to be feeling besides victory? 

 

 

[t0mm06]

When I spoke with Varric after Hawke's sacrifice I burst into terrible sobs and didn't play for the next two days.

Edit: And this was my 1000th post woohooo!!!!

Just getting out of the fade and hearing Varric 'where's Hawke?.... Where's Hawke'.
I couldn't handel it, had to go back a save re-fight terror and choose stroud to stay

[Nimlowyn]

Just getting out of the fade and hearing Varric 'where's Hawke?.... Where's Hawke'.
I couldn't handel it, had to go back a save re-fight terror and choose stroud to stay

It was gut wrenching. I sad frowned when Varric asked where's Hawke and lost it when the Hawke family theme started playing during our conversation back at Skyhold. The last time I had such serious feels was back in 1997 when Aeris died.

[Lee T]

Someone needs to tell me why this is the best quest in the game. 

 
The big bad goes full retard and lectures you  of his intentions instead of killing you, while you bury him under the snow. My view of Cory's intelligence went way down after that. It fell to rock button after it was revealed that he was too stupid to lock the doors while harassing the Divine.
 
You go against "impossible odds" and yet you
 
+ Learn of your villain's intentions
+ Destroy a vast portion of your villain's forces 
+ Get an improved base 
+ A ****** promotion as the lead Inquisitor 
+ A mother ****** throne 
 
- Lose a bar maid, a researcher and the guy who wanted your head until the base is under attack 
 
What emotions am I supposed to be feeling besides victory?

I agree, call me jaded but it felt as a "for the par" first encounter with a James Bond villain to me.

[Ashagar]

Someone needs to tell me why this is the best quest in the game. 

 

The big bad goes full retard and lectures you  of his intentions instead of killing you, while you bury him under the snow. My view of Cory's intelligence went way down after that. It fell to rock button after it was revealed that he was too stupid to lock the doors while harassing the Divine.

 

You go against "impossible odds" and yet you

 

+ Learn of your villain's intentions

+ Destroy a vast portion of your villain's forces 

+ Get an improved base 

+ A ****** promotion as the lead Inquisitor 

+ A mother ****** throne 

 

- Lose a bar maid, a researcher and the guy who wanted your head until the base is under attack 

 

What emotions am I supposed to be feeling besides victory? 

 

That you don't care that your followers were killed and haven was wiped out is more a reflection of you than the game I think.

 

Think if it like this villagers, refugees and solders who belived in you were killed, your base was wiped off the map, you failed to stop it and until solas opens his mouth you have no home base and are stuck deep in the mountains while your enemy could be anywhere even now waiting to attack. Nowhere in that do I see where you should be feeling victory unless surviving counts as victory.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Having played the Legacy DLC, it was a bit lack luster but, only because the moment I heard his voice in the temple during the prologue, I knew it was Corepheus. Yep, he possesed Janika (or Larius depending on your choices) and, came back to haunt us again. The quest itself was good but, for me it, and every encounter with him is "ho hum, here we go again, I'll fight, He'll let his pride make him overconfident and blow  it and, I'll outsmart him again."

[Ashagar]

The thing with Legacy you is didn't outsmart Hawke danced like a puppet for him and didn't realize it and he wasn't even coherent for the most part when he did it. It seems Corypheus's subconscious and his confused mind is better at plotting then when he's awake and coherent.

[VanguardCharge]

That you don't care that your followers were killed and haven was wiped out is more a reflection of you than the game I think.

 

Think if it like this villagers, refugees and solders who belived in you were killed, your base was wiped off the map, you failed to stop it and until solas opens his mouth you have no home base and are stuck deep in the mountains while your enemy could be anywhere even now waiting to attack. Nowhere in that do I see where you should be feeling victory unless surviving counts as victory.

 

Haven wasn't "wiped out". Skyhold is pretty populated when you get there, not like the only people who survived were your companions. And you are stuck in the mountains with your band of survivors for what, like a minute of a conversation with the cleric? 

 

And yeah, its a video game. A source of entertainment where I don't really care about NPCs that stand in place. I'd say that for most people, Haven happens 15/20 hours into the game. In those 15/20 hours, you learn of your companions and have plenty of interactions. I don't see how the deaths of random NPCs off screen (with whom you never interacted)  are more impactful than the death of someone who you spent 15 hours with at your side. Would Virmire have been as effective if one of your companions did not sacrifice himself? Would Ostgar be as effective if Duncan lived? I doubt it. 

[Daerog]

Why must one resort to killing off a big character in order to create drama and emotional investment?

 

I mean, it works, ya, but I think it would have made Cassandra a weaker character, turning her into Duncan or even that one female warrior in Awakening... or even the Hawke sibling who died in the beginning... killing someone off that early is kind of lame, unless they were meant to just be the Mentor and a lead in for the PC to become the Hero of the story, but then they just turn into backstory and are not a developed character or whatever.

 

Innocents died, wounded died, you had to retreat, you had to be the bait to get the rest to safety and so stayed behind without guarantee of surviving, and you were shown that Cory is way more powerful than you. It showed that Cory was in a position to win, to get what he wanted, even if he was delayed a little longer to develop an alternative to the Anchor. If the Inquisition didn't get the mages/Templars and Orlais with them and stopped the Warden plot, Cory would have won. Kind of reminded me of the beginning of ME3, except the PC stays behind and survives but must flee with everyone, rather than an army of survivors who keep fighting throughout the game.

 

I thought it was fine.

[Kuvira]

Villain monologues have been, and will always be, staples in these kinds of games. If the avg player had to figure out Cory's motivations through reading letters and scouring places like the Temple of Dumat, the forums would be full of raging about a motivationless big bad. 

 

Character deaths are a lose-lose situation. People who need main chars to die to care will always be bored when it doesn't happen. People who hate 'cheap' scripted deaths will always hate them (see Chargers). If the tavern girl made it to Skyhold, but Cassandra died, you'd see the exact same thread except "wth, why did my badass Seeker drop dead but some beer slinger is perfectly fine?". 

 

I loved the quest, but I took the time to run around listening to everyone's conversations and seeing how their relationships grew over time. Ellie's little romance made me sad when she was lost. I raged hard when Butcher died out in Crestwood. You can get to know some of these random npcs almost better than your own companions, if you spend enough time to hunt them down and listen to them. 

[Vicious]

 you're really just bringing up the problems with Corypheus... you foiled him at every turn basically, so when you killed him it was satisfying yes, but it wasn't even remotely as satisfying as say Malak/Irenicus/Saren/Kai Leng, all of whom defeated you at some poiint or cost you the life of a teammate or two.

[VanguardCharge]

Why must one resort to killing off a big character in order to create drama and emotional investment?

 

I mean, it works, ya, but I think it would have made Cassandra a weaker character, turning her into Duncan or even that one female warrior in Awakening... or even the Hawke sibling who died in the beginning... killing someone off that early is kind of lame, unless they were meant to just be the Mentor and a lead in for the PC to become the Hero of the story, but then they just turn into backstory and are not a developed character or whatever.

 

Innocents died, wounded died, you had to retreat, you had to be the bait to get the rest to safety and so stayed behind without guarantee of surviving, and you were shown that Cory is way more powerful than you. It showed that Cory was in a position to win, to get what he wanted, even if he was delayed a little longer to develop an alternative to the Anchor. If the Inquisition didn't get the mages/Templars and Orlais with them and stopped the Warden plot, Cory would have won. Kind of reminded me of the beginning of ME3, except the PC stays behind and survives but must flee with everyone, rather than an army of survivors who keep fighting throughout the game.

 

I thought it was fine.

The female warden of Awkeneing and Hawk's first sibling died 10-15 minutes into the game. Cassandra would've died 1/3 of the way of the main quest. Besides the romance and remaining seekers quest, how is her character progressing further after Haven?

 

I'll say it again, I adored Cassandra. But you being the Inquisitor while she's around makes little sense. And she is only one of the 9 companions in the game. She would've been a great emotional element of "Hearts" that was missing for me.