25 réponses à ce sujet

[Xantos]

if anyone agree please sign it. Trols are not welcome

[b10d1v]

Bioware knew this was a problem in early testing.  They need to address the hardware module and key binding issues, and specifically add the flexibility to remove functions such as tactics to get the mouse to work seamlessly.  Bioware technicians made it clear that because of the way DA3 tactics is integrated into the game, "click to move" is not a simple upgrade.  They have had plenty of time to fix it!

 

You might want to consider running a poll with a histogram.

[Ursulawinn]

This is a seriously annoying absence.

[Dai Grepher]

I want to play Inquisition and eat Cheez-Its at the same time. Bring back click to move.

[In Exile]

Click to move is a feature in tactical camera. And as tactical camera proves, the pathing AI *absolutely* cannot handle it.

[Terodil]

This is a must-have. It's not DLC (= optional) material.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

It's not  a tactical game anymore, it's Action RPG now like Mass Effect. Or it tries to be that.

Anyway click-to-go isn't really needed until the very concept of the game is changed.

[SunburnedPenguin]

I want to play Inquisition and eat Cheez-Its at the same time. Bring back click to move.

 

Exactamundo. Having to use two hands to explore means my tea gets cold I want to bind the W to mouse left click, and to move to loot. It doesnt seem too much to ask. My teabag budget will thank you.

[Syre297]

I want to play Inquisition and eat Cheez-Its at the same time. Bring back click to move.

This is hands-down the best reasoning for having click-to-move reinstated to the series. 

[Syre297]

Click to move is a feature in tactical camera. And as tactical camera proves, the pathing AI *absolutely* cannot handle it.

The most annoying part of this for me is trying to attack something from a distance. For example- I tried to help out the giant in the Storm Coast by attacking the dragon from a cliff (I know it's not really feasible, but I was fooling around) so I went into tac-cam and told Quizzy to attack and when I unpaused, the moron turned around and ran down the backside of the cliff and go stuck in some rocks. 

[ThreeF]

Click to move worked in DAO and DA2 because of flat ground. With the way the AI is it is difficult to implement this with all the climbing and jumping and rocks and very uneven ground. Imagine telling your character to go up hill in a rocky area, the AI would have to find a path which could possibly involve running around the whole map because of the uneven ground, it's very problematic to implement (you could also get killed in the process because of the random enemy).

[Syre297]

Click to move worked in DAO and DA2 because of flat ground. With the way the AI is it is difficult to implement this with all the climbing and jumping and rocks and very uneven ground. Imagine telling your character to go up hill in a rocky area, the AI would have to find a path which could possibly involve running around the whole map because of the uneven ground, it's very problematic to implement (you could also get killed in the process because of the random enemy).

When you push W, your character moves forward. If the same action was moved to the mouse, it would work the same way. But that's with holding the mouse button. I get what you're saying about AI pathing. That could be tricky with the terrain. But being able to hold the mouse button down to perform forward motion is something that could easily be implemented. It worked well in the first two games and I know that's what a lot of people, myself included, are disappointed in as far as movement controls on the mouse and keyboard. 

[In Exile]

This doesn't exactly make sense. When you push W, your character moved forward. If the same action was moved to the mouse, it would work the same way. And what exactly does AI finding a path have to do with player controlled movement? 

The AI has to calculate the path. "W" doesn't involve a calculation in the same way - it's not pathfinding. 

[Syre297]

The AI has to calculate the path. "W" doesn't involve a calculation in the same way - it's not pathfinding. 

I re-read the post and edited. My fingers were faster on the keyboard than my brain was at understanding. 

[ThreeF]

When you push W, your character moves forward. If the same action was moved to the mouse, it would work the same way. But that's with holding the mouse button. I get what you're saying about AI pathing. That could be tricky with the terrain. But being able to hold the mouse button down to perform forward motion is something that could easily be implemented. It worked well in the first two games and I know that's what a lot of people, myself included, are disappointed in as far as movement controls on the mouse and keyboard. 

 

Erm.. so you are talking just remapping the buttons? I think you can do this already? The problem with the mouse is that there are just very few buttons on it, the keyboard allows for forth-back-left right movement, mouse can only points-and-click to implement the same range and point-and-click is not an easily implemented feature in this game, I really don't see how it could work with current AI. Generally speaking, anything that involves path-finding in this game is a nightmare to program .

[Syre297]

Erm.. so you are talking just remapping the buttons? I think you can do this already? The problem with the mouse is that there are just very few buttons on it, the keyboard allows for forth-back-left right movement, mouse can only points-and-click to implement the same range and point-and-click is not an easily implemented feature in this game, I really don't see how it could work with current AI.

Well, essentially yes. DAO and DA2 had the same options with WASD movement, but you could also hold down both mouse buttons to move. LMB was move forward, RMB was to turn. DAI has the RMB dedicated to the same thing. Personally, I use the same format in DAI, except that instead of useing LMB to go forward, I use W. I rarely strafe or back up because I became so accustomed to that format in the previous 2 titles. I totally agree with your assessment of point and clickAI- pathfinding would kill any viability it might have unless you were on a relatively level terrain.

 

Unfortunately, we are not able to remap anything on the mouse. Mine, though not a fancy gaming mouse with more buttons than a keyboard, only has 5 buttons- L,R, scroll wheel button and a FWD/ BACK button.

[Terodil]

We already have pathfinding in the game, see tactical mode. It's not perfect, hell I'd probably not even call it good, but it should definitely be possible to enable it outside of tactical view for, e.g., picking up loot or closing in to an enemy when you click on it. That wouldn't even require any new oh-so-complex algorithms.

[ThreeF]

Well, essentially yes.

 

Hmm... I see, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying, carry on!

(btw, i agree, the way AI handles attack from a distance is silly, because you clearly have tremendous range outside AI, you can be a god when playing an archer, which makes me to think that perhaps they forgot to put restrictions on non AI controlled unit)

 

 

We already have pathfinding in the game, see tactical mode. It's not perfect, hell I'd probably not even call it good, but it should definitely be possible to enable it outside of tactical view for, e.g., picking up loot or closing in to an enemy when you click on it. That wouldn't even require any new oh-so-complex algorithms.

 

Only for very short distances, there are however couple "quests" where your inability to have path-finding to assist you even at a close range is the whole point of the task.

 

[Terodil]

Only for very short distances, there are however couple "quests" where your inability to have path-finding to assist you even at a close range is the whole point of the task.

 

Sorry, come again? I don't think I've understood you fully.

 

"short distances" = entire tactical map... which is not freaking huge, but sufficiently large that the game should allow me to select an object in a few metres distance and then walk over to it without me holding its hand.

 

What quests? you mean the jumping "puzzles"? Obviously, if there is no clear path (because it'd involve jumping/falling), pathfinding fails in the tactical view also. That doesn't mean it should automatically fail to stick to an enemy or to pick up loot in a moderate, unobstructed distance.

[ThreeF]

Sorry, come again? I don't think I've understood you fully.

 

"short distances" = entire tactical map... which is not freaking huge, but sufficiently large that the game should allow me to select an object in a few metres distance and then walk over to it without me holding its hand.

 

What quests? you mean the jumping "puzzles"? Obviously, if there is no clear path (because it'd involve jumping/falling), pathfinding fails in the tactical view also. That doesn't mean it should automatically fail to stick to an enemy or to pick up loot in a moderate, unobstructed distance.

 

There are obstacles almost everywhere, the encounters are randomized and they can move in any direction, you'll be running over the cliff and into rocks most of the time the way AI is right now,  there is a reason why the tactical camera works the way it works and  why its path-finding sucks in this game.

 

It's not just jumping with shards, there are many instance with shards where you still need to work for it without any jumping involved because you can't  pick up loot in a moderate, unobstructed distance.  Before encountering these situations, I was also pondering why they didn't increased the range of loot picking. There is also the instance with the undead in the waters in FM, it can also be seen as puzzle solving.  I just use F now for it instead of mouse and it makes the whole thing pretty seamless, btw.

[Terodil]

(1) There are obstacles almost everywhere, the encounters are randomized and they can move in any direction, you'll be running over the cliff and into rocks most of the time the way AI is right now,  there is a reason why the tactical camera works the way it works and  why its path-finding sucks in this game.
 
It's not just jumping with shards, there are many instance with shards where you still need to work for it without any jumping involved because you can't  pick up loot in a moderate, unobstructed distance.  Before encountering these situations, I was also pondering why the didn't increased the range of loot picking. There is also the instance with the undead in the waters in FM, it can also be seen as puzzle solving.  (2)I just use F now for it instead of mouse and it makes the whole thing pretty seamless, btw.

 
Ad 1: You are right, ofc. But Bioware DID offer pathfinding inside of tactical view, even if it's crap. There simply is no reason why that same crappy pathfinding should not be enabled outside of tactical view for simple tasks such as "move to chest three feet away, open it, pick up loot." If it occasionally causes the player to run into rocks or fall to her demise, well... save/reload is there for a reason.

Ad 2: Using the "use" button (F) is very, very useful advice that I just want to underline for others running into the same problem. It is also helpful for targeting rifts that you could otherwise not target -- simply stand somewhere close and hit F.

[ThreeF]

 
Ad 1: You are right, ofc. But Bioware DID offer pathfinding inside of tactical view, even if it's crap. There simply is no reason why that same crappy pathfinding should not be enabled outside of tactical view for simple tasks such as "move to chest three feet away, open it, pick up loot."

 

I  don't know about others, but I would close the game and never open it again if i had to deal with path-finding offered in tactics, unless there was some option to turn it off.

 

As for F button:  when I discovered it, my reaction was "where have you been my whole life!" It's really, really handy.

[MaxQuartiroli]

You are never going to see it. The real challenge for many exploration quests like Astarium or Shards is also to find the path in order to reach them. (IE. "How do I climb that hill?"). They'll never allow you to:

 

- spot a shard from the top of a hill

- click on it

- let your character do the work for you

 

The fact that they put these things inside the same, sadly, is a clear indication that they never planned this game with click to move in their minds

[StrangeStrategy]

They technically have this, don't they? You have to  be in tac cam, but if you right click you can move.

What I'd want is holding both right+left click buttons makes you move forward. Also, walking for PC.