66 réponses à ce sujet

[-PenguinFetish-]

Fade step or chain lightning. Why?

Perilous difficulty in mind.

Discuss..

[stysiaq]

Fade Step, because you already know the exact count and type of the enemies and you shouldn't be surprised by anything. Also, you start with a point in CL so you can have another passive.

[Dick Dastardly]

Oooh thats a tricky one, I would go with Chain Lightining because Fadestep has way too much utility. Also I cant stand the movment speed of most characters so Fadestep is a must for me

[Boatzu]

Whats your other abilities? barrier, static cage, energy barrage and we picking the last one? Id say neither option, go with veilstrike for more nighmare combos.

[Scraps_in_Wales]

hmm, I would normally say Fade Step, since I find CL just too useful at stunning some of the most dangerous mobs out of their most dangerous attacks (archers, delaying stealth assassins for a split-second etc). Also imo getting stray aggro from unattached ranged mobs on a character that can a) barrier and b ) LOS block from distance is no bad thing, I always think better me than shoot someone else.

 

But..... don't they fill similar roles (attack at cost of mana) in that using both regularly would decrease the mana pool too much to keep barriers flowing? If it gets to the point where it has to be managed too much to keep enough mana for a barrier then perhaps Fade Step would synergy better...

[J. Peterman]

If I had to choose, it would be fade step.

[apocalypse_owl]

Fade Step, because you already know the exact count and type of the enemies and you shouldn't be surprised by anything. Also, you start with a point in CL so you can have another passive.

 

It's a though choice, but it also depends on the playstyle you want to use. Fade Step doesn't necessarily need to be used as a GTFO button because you've been caught with your pants down.

 

If you like to play aggressively, Fade Step will let you zip in and out of the action, vanguard style. Personally I like to Fade Step in the middle of a group, drop Static Cage, chill in there a bit, freeze what enemies remain with Mana Surge when my barrier goes down and get out, conveniently chilling whatever enemy stands in my path. Cast barrier again, rinse and repeat. 

[stysiaq]

Yes, but as much as the walking speed sucks you can pretty much do it on foot, in much less flashy way. I too enjoy using Fade Step to get into action, or to move forward and then back to the starting position just to apply frost; still I believe flat damage from CL and the extra point you have (assuming that Fade Step will be upgraded) are better.

[BraveLToaster]

Whats your other abilities? barrier, static cage, energy barrage and we picking the last one? Id say neither option, go with veilstrike for more nighmare combos.

I ran this build last promotion.  Keeper doesn't need Fade Step as desperately as others as they are insanely tanky with Barrier spam.

[mssux]

I really see no use for Fade Step in the keeper build.  I'd rather choose Fade Cloak due to the fact that I can keep my position and still bonus plus get the bonuses from damage mitigation, demon pop-up avoidance / fear countering and all that.  Chain lightning is really useful for stunning enemies that are either attacking you or the group so I'd keep that instead.

 

On a side note, I wouldn't choose energy barrage personally either.  As far as I'm concerned Fade Cloak, Chain Lightning, Static Cage and Barrier gives the perfect amount of CC, damage mitigation and DPS for a keeper in any group situation.

[stysiaq]

But I get the feeling Penguin wants Energy Barrage, so suggesting builds htat he probably already tried out isn't exactly helping ;]

[mssux]

I didn't suggest a build he'd tried, I answered his question and gave my reasoning then gave my opinion on Energy Barrage also

[stysiaq]

Well, to be frank I respecced my Keeper and I want to try out some other skills after running Cage/Barrier/Fade Step/CL. I'm open for suggestions with that Snail Field or Veilstrike (I never used Veilstrike in this game, so I don't know if it's any good).

[III Poison III]

Fade step or chain lightning. Why?

Perilous difficulty in mind.

Discuss..

Drop barrier. Getting sick of seeing keepers using it. It's not needed at all. So overrated

[mssux]

I find Veilstrike useful with the static cage.  Although now that I use the Staff of the Veil, whilst it's only a 2% pop I'd rather have that then waste an ability in it.  Personally I don't think it's good enough to drop for Static Cage or Fade Cloak (this skill is far too useful, especially against the DC / archers in perilous) I could drop it for Chain Lightning but I do find that skill really useful in terms of DPS and CC.  I've tried it before but it just doesn't suit my play style, although that's just my opinion.

[-PenguinFetish-]

Well, to be frank I respecced my Keeper and I want to try out some other skills after running Cage/Barrier/Fade Step/CL. I'm open for suggestions with that Snail Field or Veilstrike (I never used Veilstrike in this game, so I don't know if it's any good).

I have a vanguard keeper build which uses snail veil. I dont have the url on hand as im on mobile but its called 'elemental vanguard' or something.

[Drasca]

Barrier, because you're a DPS keeper!

[Shadohz]

I use a Barrier-less Keeper that way I get to use all the powers I want. Lots of tears from players wondering why I don't shield them. I just mic up and tell them "if you want barriers then stand behind me and stop dying".

[Ghanima]

None

energy barrage is bad

no wait is not bad

energy barrage is extremely bad, useless and a waste of mana and skill points.

travel time make it arrive when mob is dead, animation make it stuck into walls and objects so you miss from 3 to 9 hit in average if not in open space.

Chain lightning , barrier, fade cloak then select between fade step and static cage.

 

 

[-PenguinFetish-]

It seems some of you dont understand how to read and answer the question.

I dont give a crap about what your opinion of energy barrage is. I dont care about your opinions of barrier either, because im not asking about that skill.

The question is, what should i drop, CHAIN LIGHTNING or FADE STEP in favour of EB. Simple question.

[crusader_bin]

Well, to be frank I respecced my Keeper and I want to try out some other skills after running Cage/Barrier/Fade Step/CL. I'm open for suggestions with that Snail Field or Veilstrike (I never used Veilstrike in this game, so I don't know if it's any good).

I tried most keeper builds and ended up with exacly the same thing as the one I quoted from you.

I was not really happy about trying the cage build, so It was my last, and it is way more awesome than it should have been on paper

 

With  good weapon, CL is one of the most usefull skills ( I have it combined with 10% immolation staff, it triggers almost every cast, sometimes few times).

Barrier is the main thing, so all passives go here.

Fade step/veilstrike depends on people, I would never go with veilstrike, as I find it to be inferior. FS I often use to deal damage and break out from Deamon Commander spell.

Cage (again with immolation) does massive damage and does a decent job at crowd controll.

 

Missile barrage was the best one on paper, turned out to be total crap. I was angry at it really. Mana drain with bull-** effect.

 

I tried more aggresive builds as well as pure barrier when it comes to passives, and barrier build just wins every time.

I still manage to have most kills half the time, I keep whole squad alive, it is pretty cool.

 

Necro > Keeper > Templar, when it comes to my most fav classes.

 

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR: Drop the FADE STEP. CL will still net more damage than EB overall, it should be your top skill as a keeper (besides barrier obviously)

[DrKilledbyDeath]

Fade step

[-PenguinFetish-]

I tried most keeper builds and ended up with exacly the same thing as the one I quoted from you.
I was not really happy about trying the cage build, so It was my last, and it is way more awesome than it should have been on paper

With good weapon, CL is one of the most usefull skills ( I have it combined with 10% immolation staff, it triggers almost every cast, sometimes few times).
Barrier is the main thing, so all passives go here.
Fade step/veilstrike depends on people, I would never go with veilstrike, as I find it to be inferior. FS I often use to deal damage and break out from Deamon Commander spell.
Cage (again with immolation) does massive damage and does a decent job at crowd controll.

Missile barrage was the best one on paper, turned out to be total crap. I was angry at it really. Mana drain with bull-** effect.

I tried more aggresive builds as well as pure barrier when it comes to passives, and barrier build just wins every time.
I still manage to have most kills half the time, I keep whole squad alive, it is pretty cool.

Necro > Keeper > Templar, when it comes to my most fav classes.

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR: Drop the FADE STEP. CL will still net more damage than EB overall, it should be your top skill as a keeper (besides barrier obviously)

My only concern is how ill be able to have enough mana to rotate CL, EB, SC and barrier. Fade step is useful for that reason imo.

[Torkelight]

Energy barrage doesnt seem worth it for me as other people have explained. But if people want to use it, go ahead.

My build consist of Barrier, CL, Fade Step and Cage. I really do enjoy fade step on keeper for a few reasons:

- It has low coold down and low cost which can help me decrease CD on barrier.

- It can be used to step into the action with the tanks to get barrier on them and yourself at the same time, and then step back out or whatever you choose.

 

- Also once you learn to control it you can do funny things with it. And it looks cool
 

 

Next build though I will test veilstrike, probably swapped for fade step.

I wont swap out static cage either, as I just love that spell. Good CC and good damage boost. 

[MaxCrushmore]

IMO neither ...

 

Switch Fade Step to Fade Cloak (assuming that is the one with the movement speed .. I get these mixed up)

 

Chain Lightning

 

Energy Barrage

 

Barrier

 

With the threat reduction you get early in the Keeper skill tree, I find it quite handy to be able to Fade Cloak through the frontline enemies for freezing / chilling, then casting Barrier on the rest of your teammates .. followed by CL and EB for damage, rinse and repeat.

 

I have had much success with this build

 

Edit: Personally, I would always have one of the Step powers, as this gets you out of those 'Oh Schnizzle!" moments .. tough to stomach dropping CL though ..

 

2nd Edit: Lol at the players who skip Barrier on the Keeper. One of the most powerful abilities in the game that helps your team succeed, and also nets you many points / experience that everyone benefits from. Just to attempt to turn the Keeper into a damage dealer, when they will always be the weakest of the magic users re damage output.