115 réponses à ce sujet

[Dreamer]

Make no mistake that the push for online play is coming from EA themselves, and the motivation is money.

[mmoblitz]

This doesn't surprise me.  Look at the last rendition of SimCity and Sims 4 started as an online MMO and changed 2/3 the way through development to the crap it is now.  EA will be taking all their games digital only and playable online in the near future.

[ironhorse384]

Make no mistake that the push for online play is coming from EA themselves, and the motivation is money.

It makes sense when you think about it. They're in the business of making money so they're going to try and extract it from you any way possible. Ultimately it falls on you to decide whether or not you want to drop $50 on chest in MP.

[katokires]

Geeez you guys talk about MMO's like Fox News talks about liberals.  

 

yeah I don't play MMO's cause those are for kids with their daddy's credit card.  But...

 

What I'd like to know is how DAO was any different? It played exactly like every MMO that was out in the same time frame.  GW1 for example they all used the same WASD and cooldown mechanic.  Were you really naive enough to think they wouldn't change the gameplay to style to match current gaming trends? The difference of course between any DA release and an MMO is the single player content, and there is more now than there has ever been. 

 

And lastly, there is no axe to my head telling I have to play DAMP against a bunch of kids who don't have jobs and can sit and power level all day.  If this game was designed as a MMO first, then why are so many complaining about how crappy the MP is.  I personally have no desire to play the MP version nor do I have to.  This whole topic is doodoo.

I played MMORPGs since 2003 until last year. In 11 years of MMORPG I have never seen anything barely resembling DAO.

Also welcome to one of my denial archetypes, "the everything was the same", I posted in another topic this days, very useful, I guess I will include it in all my posts.

GW1... cool... so you somehow think that using WASD and cooldown is somewhat/somehow relevant... cool. If I try to forget that even DnD have cooldowns and that games from the eighties had WASD, yeah perhaps... no, not even then... we are obviously talking about general characteristics and not about such detaisl that are NOT exclusively MMORPG.

See... in these 11 years I played MMORPGs the differences from single player RPG I played are pretty basic:

Grind oriented. Note that is not allowed to grind or possible to grind, it is all about grind. Yeah there are some that differ, as I stated before, we are talking about the characteristics that define the genre, not about game X or Y, so the so called exceptions exist, of course they do, but they do not define the general featues of a game genre. Thanks. God, I wish I could understand people that bring exceptions to a discussion thinking they somehow make any kind of sense. Unless you are talking about the nature of something, about something innate, or something specific, it makes no sense.

Poor story. No, I am not talking about lore, about the story behind the game, but about how the story is relevant to the game. And yeah, here I blame DAI. It doesn't matter if you have a lore of ten thousand years when you are picking metal ores. Or killing goblins. Or trying to get the epic loot from an ancient evil ressurected (for the 1000th time). Lore and story mean nothing when they do not relate to your game experience. It is easier to explain this way: I had no ideia what TERA online was about when I played it, it was not needed. I had no ideia what AION was about (well I was daeva with memory problems I guess) and I could play it anyway. DAI is not THAT disconnected, I would not even play it if it was, but still in 90% of game time it is doing storyless ****.

So if you please could talk about this, the real issue, instead of talking as if cooldown and WASD were MMORPG thing, and as if DAO was like MMORPGs... could have worked if a person did not play them for 11 years =)
Also there is no "how you remember DAO", I play DAO, daily. It is amazing, it is wonderfull, it is not like any MMORPG I have ever played in any aspect, not the character building, not the combat, not the exploration. So please, show me a MMORPG with the same systems. I wonder what kind of MMORPG would even make it to being commercialized with such boring combat (which I absolutely love in DAO)

 

See the problem is that you are making sense. DAO has quite a few characteristics  of MMOs.  Regenerating health and mana for one  is a staple of MMOs. You also hit upon other characteristics of MMOs that DAO has like cooldowns. As you stated if this was to be an MMO game the multi-player should be much better than it is.

 

Posters talk about it being a grindfest? Almost every crpg allowed for grinding to gain levels. Some even encouraged it. Grinding is not limited to MMOs.

 

The interesting point is that DAI got rid of regenerating health and mana which is a throwback to earlier crpgs.. DAI even dump the healer which makes a great deal of sense lore wise given that healing is suppose to be magical surgery .

 

Some posters blame the 8 slot limit on consoles and MMOs when that is clearly a design choice which can be considered good or bad but has zero to do with consoles or MMOs. Next gen consoles are quite able to handle more than the 8 slot limit and many MMOs have more than an 8 slot limit.

 

Posters want to point to this article and say see DAI was an MMO when it started. If that the case it is very poor MMO considering the MP has serious problems. What basically happen is that assets were used to make DAI. That is nothing new game assets routinely get reused. Bethesda has been doing it for years with the TES series.

Obsidian reused assets from Fallout three to make Fallout New Vegas. 

1. The multiplayer is nothing related to the MMO they were making. The single player is. That's why the single player was EXACTLY like all (recent) MMORPGs I played and the multiplayer is not. DUH.

2. Cool down and regeneration are from MMORPGs... JESUS CHRIST. Ok. Don't know if dumb or just dishonest. But yeah those were kicking around way before.

3. Agreed with grinding but not in Bioware RPGs, not ever, I always just did it all, since all my playthroughs were completionist, and had all I need. DAO I always ended up level 35 with all the gear I needed before the end of Awakening. But... read what I told spicy above, it is about being grind oriented, not allowed or encouraged to grind.

 

Also you completely miss the point you both. There is no problem in using this assets, I am almost sure that Origins did, and since you COMPLETELY miss the point, you would probably bring this fact here thinking it is a royal flush... no I'm sorry it would make no difference because that is not the point. So I will try to explain:

1 - It is about SIZE. QUANTITY. You know, a bit of salt make some food taste really good. But one ton of salt don't, it will probably kill you. All previous RPGs had fetchy quests and all the stuff we complain in Inquisition. So repeat with me: QUANTITY is the problem. There is no point in making a quality RPG like a Bioware RPG this huge as Inquisition if you are going to fill it with ****. In DAO they already admited quests were made to fill space, then DA2 fetchy quests, then these both multiplied by a hundred = there you go Inquisition. And there you MMORPGs. MMORPGs in general have big maps and a lot of storyless useless **** to fill the gaps between main quests. So there is no point in telling how all RPGs are exactly like that because it is the AMOUNT that counts.

2 - Quality matters too. Well not exactly quality, it can be misinterpreted, specifically connection to the core of the game, in DAI's case, the story. If I can spend hundreds of hours doing quests and gathering materials without even remembering about what the game is, it is wrong. In Skyrim it works because the story is not the core. Well it is for me, that's why I played it, but the whole game mechanics present you a truly free open world, so I don't acknowledge story as the core of Skyrim. I didn't really want to argue about it, but I need to so, compare what you can do in DAI after finishing the game and what can you do in Skyrim after you finish the game, I hope it is enough for you to understand without further explanations. Also LORE is not connection to the story. Lore every shitty MMORPG have, lore does not connect you to anything lore is something relevant to know the game world but utterly useless to connect you to your quest, it is at most an excuse. If I go to a library read about mars it does not connect me to having to work in a fast food kitchen. Lore is just lore, great for some, not great for others, perhaps immersive but not useful to link to the main quest.

 

Since I know you will still try to argue DAI is not that different, neurosis rationalization ****, I'd like to know what in previous Bioware games is a mirror of killing snowfleurs just to get materials to craft armor. A thing I never did in a Bioware RPG before, did A LOT in MMORPGs. And by killing I mean the respawn thing, because OBVIOUSLY, I'm not talking about killing monsters to get items or materials, this OF COURSE is exactly the same in any RPG. OF COURSE I'm talking about enemies respawning so that you can farm for materials. All these caps are adressing your denial and the excuses yo would use thinking removing one aspect of the action, the one that matters, and comparing to others dismiss a point. As I said in my other posts, you people have epic dodge feat, deffinetly.

[Kroepoek]

It makes sense when you think about it. They're in the business of making money so they're going to try and extract it from you any way possible. Ultimately it falls on you to decide whether or not you want to drop $50 on chest in MP.

 

True, and I agree. That said, they could've allocated the resources and time of multiplayer into single player for a more enhanced experience. Would SP be better because of it, we'll never know. The idea remains though.

[katokires]

Perhaps you should read the post onceagain as well. Let's see...

"Weirdly, we actually had a project code-named Blackfoot which was the first game we had that was looking at Frostbite," Inquisition executive producer Mark Darrah told GamesIndustry International. "It was a Dragon Age game, multiplayer only, that was in development before Dragon Age II came out. That became the core of what became Dragon Age Inquisition, the techlines, more than any of the development, so we've actually been looking at [multiplayer] a long time."

So, this means they had a game in the DA-franchise for MP.The developement may have been cancelled, but it's core is still in Inquisition.
Yes, it does not have to mean, they were developing an MMORPG. It could have been something like the actual MP in Inquisition.
Yes it`s speculative to conclude, this game named "Blackfoot" or Inquisition were a WoW right from the beginning... but also kind of obvious if you take a look closer into Inquisitions mechanics and compare them to nowadays MMORPGs.
What do we have here? Huge maps which involve mounts? Check. Safe-areas (like skyhold and some keeps) and quest-areas? Check.
Respawning mobs? Check. Farmable resources? Check. And lame wannabe go-and-get or go-and-kill quests? Check and check.
And am i the only one or does the combat mechanics feel a lot like ESO (or at least the ESO i played in Beta)?

Any way you look at it, it seems like Inquisition is a MMORPG, stripped from it's MMO-part and put into SP.

"It's sitting at a table with your friends and playing a pen and paper experience," he said. "It's been a single-player experience on computers for a long time, but Baldur's Gate had multiplayer co-op through the story. This is an attempt to get that feeling back, something you can do, get a fantasy experience, but much more bite-size."

Please, oh please did anyone - ANYONE- feel like playing a pen&paper Rpg or even BG while running inquisition? It's nowhere near that kind of experience.
No attribute-points, no big Class-variation, minimum of custonisation (Just armor,helmet, weapon and a handful of accessories),no big amount of spells, no tactical combat and no epic quests.
What we've got is the looks... but none of the heart and soul.

"Skyrim changed the landscape for role-playing games completely," he said. "Now the expectations of your other fans, they're changing too. People age, they typically have less time for games, so it changes their expectations in terms of gameplay segments. It also results in some nostalgia. so they may become even more firm in their attachment to previous features. Now suddenly you have 15 million people that have basically had the first RPG they've ever played as Skyrim. They have totally different expectations of what storytelling is, what exploration is, and I think exploration is really where we've seen the biggest change."

I would really like to know, where this guy got his calculations from... or are those just assumptions? How many of those millions really started with skyrim? Did really nobody of them play... maybe Oblivion... or Morrowind (where i started into this series)?
Why comparing a first-person-action-Rpg to a franchise, which should originally focus more on pen&paper? Ah yes... of course... because of the numbers of sales.
What's nostalgia got to do with it? If games of the same genre were already better back then, they'r still better now - that's just logic. After playing through inquisition for the fourth time, i started playing BG2 again and still it's way better than this newest representative of Party-Rpgs. And games don't age like fine whine - they don't necessarily get better when they're older. There are tons of games which are far outdated and replaced by better, more recent sequels. For example i hear many praises about the new Elite.
So having to admit, that BG2 is still better is like a punch in the face from Bioware to me.

And then... when a game like inquisition raises it's head and claims to be a party-Rpg inspired by p&p and focused on SP it gives me the shudders. And no marketing bla-bla and no pale excuse can change this.

This.

[ironhorse384]

True, and I agree. That said, they could've allocated the resources and time of multiplayer into single player for a more enhanced experience. Would SP be better because of it, we'll never know. The idea remains though.

Sure they could've but perhaps there were enough people dropping coin in ME3 multiplayer that it was something they felt they couldn't live without in this game.

[SofaJockey]

But hey, who cares about the truth when you're complaining.

 

Indeed. 

Old news.

OP filled with hyperbole, flawed assumptions and flawed conclusions.

[ironhorse384]

"snip"

 If I go to a library read about mars it does not connect me to having to work in a fast food kitchen."

"snip"
 

I found your post very entertaining but this line relating to lore had me rofl. well done

[dreamgazer]

Make no mistake that the push for online play is coming from EA themselves, and the motivation is money.

The entire time I've been playing Inquisition, I have literally forgotten that multiplayer even exists.

If that's the way they want to "push" online play and earn more revenue for future projects, more power to them.

[robertthebard]

The entire time I've been playing Inquisition, I have literally forgotten that multiplayer even exists.

If that's the way they want to "push" online play and earn more revenue for future projects, more power to them.

It's funny, in that I have actually logged into DAMP once, to see what my DDE rewards were. I had to create a character to look. After that, I haven't touched it. I have logged over 300 hours in SP though. I play a lot of MMOs, due to the nature of my disability, that's my main source of "human interaction". Nothing in DA I made me think I was playing an MMO. "But Rob, you have to gather mats" means absolutely nothing, unless Origins and DA 2 were also supposed to be MMOs? I had to gather mats there too. In fact, I had to gather mats/find resources to upgrade Vigil's Keep in Awakening. So if this is the grind that makes DA I an offline MMO, then Origins et al, and DA 2 were much the same.

Up thread a bit, someone stated "Oh please, did anyone come away feeling BG after playing DA I?", and I have to say that I have. I have, in fact, been tempted to dig out my BG OST CD, because some of the ambient music in Haven reminded me of a track from BG. Maps that are unconnected to the main story? BG had plenty of them, and the expansion added more of the same. It's hilarious, to me, how a very non-linear story component, such as maps unrelated to the story, provided purely for exploration and "grind" could be touted as a good thing back then, but now, suddenly, it makes a game an offline MMO. You're not "allowed" to point out that optional content is optional, it violates the "I need to complain about content being unrelated to the main story" clause of the BSN ToS, apparently. It certainly negates the "I have to do the grind to progress the story" claims made to support "offline MMO".

It's funny, to me, because yesterday I went back to my first completion, and I hadn't been to 3 maps, at all, and had only been to the base camp on another one, and still managed to complete the game's main story, and didn't have any green clouds on my War Table, meaning that the maps for those had been opened, and the main story components on them had been completed, and I still had 150ish power left. I'm not sure on the exact total, and I deleted all but the first save and the last one, because I thought I'd go back and do something different. In fact, I felt compelled to go back and try something different.

[CronoDragoon]

Dragon Age Inquisition's design is almost nothing like an MMO, insofar as we are talking about it being more of an MMO than say Baldur's Gate I. MMOs frontload grinding along with occasional story missions and then open up into massive endgame mission chains and dungeons. In Inquisition, the story quests are, if anything, front-loaded, and the game structure is fairly uniform throughout the game (Dragons can be attempted at lv12, dungeons don't suddenly start at the higher level zones, etc).

[tmp7704]

Since I know you will still try to argue DAI is not that different, neurosis rationalization ****, I'd like to know what in previous Bioware games is a mirror of killing snowfleurs just to get materials to craft armor. A thing I never did in a Bioware RPG before, did A LOT in MMORPGs.

Wait, your argument for DAI being like a MMO boils down to, there's crafting in it where before there wasn't? Because if we're going to head this route, then while BioWare didn't put much of that in their previous RPGs before, there's this exact sort of crafting in say, the Witcher. Does it make the Witcher a failed MMO as well?

Incidentally, if respawning enemies and grinding them for loot/xp are also telltale signs of MMO, then I think both the Final Fantasy and the Elder Scrolls series with their spin-offs would like to have a word here. I think people attributing these components to MMOs just have pretty narrow idea of what RPGs are like.

[robertthebard]

Wait, your argument for DAI being like a MMO boils down to, there's crafting in it where before there wasn't? Because if we're going to head this route, then while BioWare didn't put much of that in their previous RPGs before, there's this exact sort of crafting in say, the Witcher. Does it make the Witcher a failed MMO as well?

Incidentally, if respawning enemies and grinding them for loot/xp are also telltale signs of MMO, then I think both the Final Fantasy and the Elder Scrolls series with their spin-offs would like to have a word here. I think people attributing these components to MMOs just have pretty narrow idea of what RPGs are like.

It's also very much misinformed, since there was, albeit very limited, crafting in both previous DA titles. You could craft potions, poisons and traps in Origins, with weapons and armor being "upgradeable" via "Enchantment". The source of these materials? Loot drops, gathering and vendors. How quickly we forget, when it doesn't fit into our argument, anyway...

[mutantspicy]

I played MMORPGs since 2003 until last year. In 11 years of MMORPG I have never seen anything barely resembling DAO.

Also welcome to one of my denial archetypes, "the everything was the same", I posted in another topic this days, very useful, I guess I will include it in all my posts.

GW1... cool... so you somehow think that using WASD and cooldown is somewhat/somehow relevant... cool. If I try to forget that even DnD have cooldowns and that games from the eighties had WASD, yeah perhaps... no, not even then... we are obviously talking about general characteristics and not about such detaisl that are NOT exclusively MMORPG.

See... in these 11 years I played MMORPGs the differences from single player RPG I played are pretty basic:

Grind oriented. Note that is not allowed to grind or possible to grind, it is all about grind. Yeah there are some that differ, as I stated before, we are talking about the characteristics that define the genre, not about game X or Y, so the so called exceptions exist, of course they do, but they do not define the general featues of a game genre. Thanks. God, I wish I could understand people that bring exceptions to a discussion thinking they somehow make any kind of sense. Unless you are talking about the nature of something, about something innate, or something specific, it makes no sense.

Poor story. No, I am not talking about lore, about the story behind the game, but about how the story is relevant to the game. And yeah, here I blame DAI. It doesn't matter if you have a lore of ten thousand years when you are picking metal ores. Or killing goblins. Or trying to get the epic loot from an ancient evil ressurected (for the 1000th time). Lore and story mean nothing when they do not relate to your game experience. It is easier to explain this way: I had no ideia what TERA online was about when I played it, it was not needed. I had no ideia what AION was about (well I was daeva with memory problems I guess) and I could play it anyway. DAI is not THAT disconnected, I would not even play it if it was, but still in 90% of game time it is doing storyless ****.

So if you please could talk about this, the real issue, instead of talking as if cooldown and WASD were MMORPG thing, and as if DAO was like MMORPGs... could have worked if a person did not play them for 11 years =)
Also there is no "how you remember DAO", I play DAO, daily. It is amazing, it is wonderfull, it is not like any MMORPG I have ever played in any aspect, not the character building, not the combat, not the exploration. So please, show me a MMORPG with the same systems. I wonder what kind of MMORPG would even make it to being commercialized with such boring combat (which I absolutely love in DAO)

 

1. The multiplayer is nothing related to the MMO they were making. The single player is. That's why the single player was EXACTLY like all (recent) MMORPGs I played and the multiplayer is not. DUH.

2. Cool down and regeneration are from MMORPGs... JESUS CHRIST. Ok. Don't know if dumb or just dishonest. But yeah those were kicking around way before.

3. Agreed with grinding but not in Bioware RPGs, not ever, I always just did it all, since all my playthroughs were completionist, and had all I need. DAO I always ended up level 35 with all the gear I needed before the end of Awakening. But... read what I told spicy above, it is about being grind oriented, not allowed or encouraged to grind.

 

Also you completely miss the point you both. There is no problem in using this assets, I am almost sure that Origins did, and since you COMPLETELY miss the point, you would probably bring this fact here thinking it is a royal flush... no I'm sorry it would make no difference because that is not the point. So I will try to explain:

1 - It is about SIZE. QUANTITY. You know, a bit of salt make some food taste really good. But one ton of salt don't, it will probably kill you. All previous RPGs had fetchy quests and all the stuff we complain in Inquisition. So repeat with me: QUANTITY is the problem. There is no point in making a quality RPG like a Bioware RPG this huge as Inquisition if you are going to fill it with ****. In DAO they already admited quests were made to fill space, then DA2 fetchy quests, then these both multiplied by a hundred = there you go Inquisition. And there you MMORPGs. MMORPGs in general have big maps and a lot of storyless useless **** to fill the gaps between main quests. So there is no point in telling how all RPGs are exactly like that because it is the AMOUNT that counts.

2 - Quality matters too. Well not exactly quality, it can be misinterpreted, specifically connection to the core of the game, in DAI's case, the story. If I can spend hundreds of hours doing quests and gathering materials without even remembering about what the game is, it is wrong. In Skyrim it works because the story is not the core. Well it is for me, that's why I played it, but the whole game mechanics present you a truly free open world, so I don't acknowledge story as the core of Skyrim. I didn't really want to argue about it, but I need to so, compare what you can do in DAI after finishing the game and what can you do in Skyrim after you finish the game, I hope it is enough for you to understand without further explanations. Also LORE is not connection to the story. Lore every shitty MMORPG have, lore does not connect you to anything lore is something relevant to know the game world but utterly useless to connect you to your quest, it is at most an excuse. If I go to a library read about mars it does not connect me to having to work in a fast food kitchen. Lore is just lore, great for some, not great for others, perhaps immersive but not useful to link to the main quest.

 

Since I know you will still try to argue DAI is not that different, neurosis rationalization ****, I'd like to know what in previous Bioware games is a mirror of killing snowfleurs just to get materials to craft armor. A thing I never did in a Bioware RPG before, did A LOT in MMORPGs. And by killing I mean the respawn thing, because OBVIOUSLY, I'm not talking about killing monsters to get items or materials, this OF COURSE is exactly the same in any RPG. OF COURSE I'm talking about enemies respawning so that you can farm for materials. All these caps are adressing your denial and the excuses yo would use thinking removing one aspect of the action, the one that matters, and comparing to others dismiss a point. As I said in my other posts, you people have epic dodge feat, deffinetly.

So basically everything from every angle that refutes your baseless assertions, is off the table for discussion.  Well how convenient. 

[robertthebard]

Since I know you will still try to argue DAI is not that different, neurosis rationalization ****, I'd like to know what in previous Bioware games is a mirror of killing snowfleurs just to get materials to craft armor. A thing I never did in a Bioware RPG before, did A LOT in MMORPGs. And by killing I mean the respawn thing, because OBVIOUSLY, I'm not talking about killing monsters to get items or materials, this OF COURSE is exactly the same in any RPG. OF COURSE I'm talking about enemies respawning so that you can farm for materials. All these caps are adressing your denial and the excuses yo would use thinking removing one aspect of the action, the one that matters, and comparing to others dismiss a point. As I said in my other posts, you people have epic dodge feat, deffinetly.

Spiders for poison ingredients?

[Realmzmaster]

I played MMORPGs since 2003 until last year. In 11 years of MMORPG I have never seen anything barely resembling DAO.

Also welcome to one of my denial archetypes, "the everything was the same", I posted in another topic this days, very useful, I guess I will include it in all my posts.

GW1... cool... so you somehow think that using WASD and cooldown is somewhat/somehow relevant... cool. If I try to forget that even DnD have cooldowns and that games from the eighties had WASD, yeah perhaps... no, not even then... we are obviously talking about general characteristics and not about such detaisl that are NOT exclusively MMORPG.

See... in these 11 years I played MMORPGs the differences from single player RPG I played are pretty basic:

Grind oriented. Note that is not allowed to grind or possible to grind, it is all about grind. Yeah there are some that differ, as I stated before, we are talking about the characteristics that define the genre, not about game X or Y, so the so called exceptions exist, of course they do, but they do not define the general featues of a game genre. Thanks. God, I wish I could understand people that bring exceptions to a discussion thinking they somehow make any kind of sense. Unless you are talking about the nature of something, about something innate, or something specific, it makes no sense.

Poor story. No, I am not talking about lore, about the story behind the game, but about how the story is relevant to the game. And yeah, here I blame DAI. It doesn't matter if you have a lore of ten thousand years when you are picking metal ores. Or killing goblins. Or trying to get the epic loot from an ancient evil ressurected (for the 1000th time). Lore and story mean nothing when they do not relate to your game experience. It is easier to explain this way: I had no ideia what TERA online was about when I played it, it was not needed. I had no ideia what AION was about (well I was daeva with memory problems I guess) and I could play it anyway. DAI is not THAT disconnected, I would not even play it if it was, but still in 90% of game time it is doing storyless ****.

So if you please could talk about this, the real issue, instead of talking as if cooldown and WASD were MMORPG thing, and as if DAO was like MMORPGs... could have worked if a person did not play them for 11 years =)
Also there is no "how you remember DAO", I play DAO, daily. It is amazing, it is wonderfull, it is not like any MMORPG I have ever played in any aspect, not the character building, not the combat, not the exploration. So please, show me a MMORPG with the same systems. I wonder what kind of MMORPG would even make it to being commercialized with such boring combat (which I absolutely love in DAO)

 

1. The multiplayer is nothing related to the MMO they were making. The single player is. That's why the single player was EXACTLY like all (recent) MMORPGs I played and the multiplayer is not. DUH.

2. Cool down and regeneration are from MMORPGs... JESUS CHRIST. Ok. Don't know if dumb or just dishonest. But yeah those were kicking around way before.

3. Agreed with grinding but not in Bioware RPGs, not ever, I always just did it all, since all my playthroughs were completionist, and had all I need. DAO I always ended up level 35 with all the gear I needed before the end of Awakening. But... read what I told spicy above, it is about being grind oriented, not allowed or encouraged to grind.

 

Also you completely miss the point you both. There is no problem in using this assets, I am almost sure that Origins did, and since you COMPLETELY miss the point, you would probably bring this fact here thinking it is a royal flush... no I'm sorry it would make no difference because that is not the point. So I will try to explain:

1 - It is about SIZE. QUANTITY. You know, a bit of salt make some food taste really good. But one ton of salt don't, it will probably kill you. All previous RPGs had fetchy quests and all the stuff we complain in Inquisition. So repeat with me: QUANTITY is the problem. There is no point in making a quality RPG like a Bioware RPG this huge as Inquisition if you are going to fill it with ****. In DAO they already admited quests were made to fill space, then DA2 fetchy quests, then these both multiplied by a hundred = there you go Inquisition. And there you MMORPGs. MMORPGs in general have big maps and a lot of storyless useless **** to fill the gaps between main quests. So there is no point in telling how all RPGs are exactly like that because it is the AMOUNT that counts.

2 - Quality matters too. Well not exactly quality, it can be misinterpreted, specifically connection to the core of the game, in DAI's case, the story. If I can spend hundreds of hours doing quests and gathering materials without even remembering about what the game is, it is wrong. In Skyrim it works because the story is not the core. Well it is for me, that's why I played it, but the whole game mechanics present you a truly free open world, so I don't acknowledge story as the core of Skyrim. I didn't really want to argue about it, but I need to so, compare what you can do in DAI after finishing the game and what can you do in Skyrim after you finish the game, I hope it is enough for you to understand without further explanations. Also LORE is not connection to the story. Lore every shitty MMORPG have, lore does not connect you to anything lore is something relevant to know the game world but utterly useless to connect you to your quest, it is at most an excuse. If I go to a library read about mars it does not connect me to having to work in a fast food kitchen. Lore is just lore, great for some, not great for others, perhaps immersive but not useful to link to the main quest.

 

Since I know you will still try to argue DAI is not that different, neurosis rationalization ****, I'd like to know what in previous Bioware games is a mirror of killing snowfleurs just to get materials to craft armor. A thing I never did in a Bioware RPG before, did A LOT in MMORPGs. And by killing I mean the respawn thing, because OBVIOUSLY, I'm not talking about killing monsters to get items or materials, this OF COURSE is exactly the same in any RPG. OF COURSE I'm talking about enemies respawning so that you can farm for materials. All these caps are adressing your denial and the excuses yo would use thinking removing one aspect of the action, the one that matters, and comparing to others dismiss a point. As I said in my other posts, you people have epic dodge feat, deffinetly.

 

Everything you mention is completely subjective. I like the amount of quests and your opinion on quality is also subjective, That is my point. You see it your way and I do not agree with your evaluation of both quantity or quality.

[Realmzmaster]

True, and I agree. That said, they could've allocated the resources and time of multiplayer into single player for a more enhanced experience. Would SP be better because of it, we'll never know. The idea remains though.

 

The money for multiplayer would not have gone into single player. That is not how budgets in any company are allocated. If the money budgeted was not going to be used for multiplayer it would go to the next project that needed to be funded. The multtiplayer was a separate budget and made by a separate team using the same assets.

So no the money would not go to the single player budget. That was already set in stone. Also given that Bioware was given an extra year and a month no more money was going to be allocated.

[AlanC9]

You know this how? Last time I checked Valve/Steam didn't publish sales figures so nobody really knows how many PC copies of Skyrim have been sold.

Steam doesn't talk, but Zenimax and Bethesda do.

Apparently Skyrim did sell a larger percentage on PC than Oblivion did. Not saying much, since before release Bethesda said that 90% of the TES market was on consoles.

[Salvo1]

Spot on. DA:I was a beta for a DA mmo. Said MMO will kill the franchise too. Kotor all over again.

 

I sure hope not.  The SWTOR MMO killed off the single player RPG series and also is a lot less fun and more grindy than the KOTOR series ever was.  Not particularly good gameplay either.  I've played SWTOR, but only because KOTOR 3 never came out, and even then, I tolerated more than I liked it.  I think a lot of developers don't understand that MMO gameplay is designed to be tolerable, not inherently fun.  Grindy so that people will have so many timesinks, that they'll pay $15 for another month to finish grinding, or pay to do more stuff faster if it's a F2P mmo.  

 

Game design that's meant to bore the player unless they shell out money or take so long to accomplish anything that they have to pay $15 to have 1 more month to finish anything is not good game design, and I feel that it does not belong in single player games or even any games period honestly.

[Rizilliant]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Elder Scrolls ONLINE already an MMO and was created with the sole intent of being an MMO?

Not exactly a shining example of success, lol...

[Bladenite1481]

I thought it felt like an MMO, it felt like GW 2 to me. Minimized buttons to increase reaction over strategy and build combination, large open areas that looked pretty but honestly were somewhat vapid and more time consuming than fun when it came down to it, and a very basic crafting system that focused on a streamlined "everyone can get anything they want as long as they are willing to grind for the components" sort of approach.

 

Now you can say that DAO and DA2 had crafting, but I don't ever remember farming for materials in either of them for anything I ever wanted to create. It either existed statically in places, or dropped readily from enemies. I went to that place and retrieved it, I didn't have to go in and out of the same boring dungeon 1023 times just to get the right schematic I wanted for the appearance I was going for. 

 

I get that some people like Robert enjoy the game, but I think there are a good percentage who don't. It is wrong to think everyone shares your opinion at either end of the spectrum. I found the story boring, the companions completely unworthy of my attention and the gameplay lacking in almost every category. Its a creation that exists to be a hybrid of what sells well instead of what the company can do well and the end result in my opinion is complete mediocrity. It does nothing that other games don't do better. I forced myself to slog through the end of the game to see if it got better and it didn't, so now I can't be bothered to replay a game where my decisions feel hollow, my character is a living lamp post and the game play makes me want to claw my eyes out because its so mind numbingly boring. 

[tmp7704]

Now you can say that DAO and DA2 had crafting, but I don't ever remember farming for materials in either of them for anything I ever wanted to create. It either existed statically in places, or dropped readily from enemies. I went to that place and retrieved it, I didn't have to go in and out of the same boring dungeon 1023 times just to get the right schematic I wanted for the appearance I was going for.

You didn't go into the same boring dungeon 1023 times to get the right schematics for the appearance you were going for in DA/DA2 because it was never an option in these games. Your only choice was either you liked the appearance of what dropped for you in loot (or what a vendor happened to be selling) or you didn't and that was tough luck.

[mutantspicy]

You didn't go into the same boring dungeon 1023 times to get the right schematics for the appearance you were going for in DA/DA2 because it was never an option in these games. Your only choice was either you liked the appearance of what dropped for you in loot (or what a vendor happened to be selling) or you didn't and that was tough luck.

Nah you just had to go to DA Nexus and download the Mod of your choice.

[tmp7704]

Nah you just had to go to DA Nexus and download the Mod of your choice.

Funny you'd say that. You know why I put pretty much months of work into some DA mods? Because no one bothered to make the stuff I wanted. And there weren't "mods of my choice" on the nexus to download. And of course, that's not even mentioning people who play the console version and have no such option at all.

So with these in mind, i'll keep getting o.O at people who complain about taking 15-30 mins in game to get good looking stuff with good stats, and how it makes the game totally MMO-like and apparently so much worse than the alternative of not having this option.