65 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Leliana is a lying snake who looks out for herself a lot, but even she occasionally attempts to help people. Varric is a "worse" spymaster because he cares about people. He's got your back. In fact, the only reason he's a liar in the situation with Cassandra is because he's got Hawke's back.

 

By the way, who are the other snakes you're referring to?

You're implying I approve of Leliana any more than I do of Varric. 

He chooses to cover Hawke(who would want to help by the way but Varric doesn't tell Hawke) by not having our back. I don't want someone who doesn't have my back to be a part of my team. 

 

Well, without a doubt Thom Rainier and Solas. The former's whole personal quest is about him being a snake and the latter we learn in the epilogue scene. The others depend on the player's point of view so are subjective. 

 

Your list of despicable things re: Varric are literally all things that he could not have foreseen going bad. Also, almost all of them were meant to benefit people who were not him. Even lying about Hawke- Varric could have washed his hands of everything had he just given Hawke to Cassandra. His lying put him in a far more dangerous position, but he did it anyway because he cared more about his friend than he did himself. Then, the moment he realized that Hawke was actually definitely needed, he brought her in, despite knowing that Cassandra would try to kill him. Anyone who thinks he only looks out for himself is being willfully ignorant of his overall characterization.

 

Relevant to the topic: I mean, Cassandra basically tells him to get lost the moment the Herald proves herself a competent fighter, and he insists on staying with them. Then, even though there's really no reason for him to be in the Inquisition, he commits anyway and remains committed, no matter what.

I brought those up because people were blaming Bianca for things they didn't know would happen so decided if that's how it was going to be then it is only fair to do that to Varric as well. I don't actually blame him for those things, which was my point because it was ironic how the Varric fans were up in arms about Bianca yet were totally cool with Varric when they did the exact same thing, Varric's having worse consequences. 

 

My actual list consists of things like him being a selfish lying snake and being the occasional despicable conduct. He is a huge jerk to some of our companions for absolutely no reason. 

 

Him coming along is a retcon to have Varric in DAI. DA2 ends with Cassandra telling Varric he is free to go. 

 

As for commitment, it's called self-preservation. He even admits to that being a reason for him being there because the Breach is something too big a threat for him to ignore. The moment it is ensured to not happen again, he is gone.

[BansheeOwnage]

You're implying I approve of Leliana any more than I do of Varric. 

He chooses to cover Hawke(who would want to help by the way but Varric doesn't tell Hawke) by not having our back. I don't want someone who doesn't have my back to be a part of my team. 

 

Well, without a doubt Thom Rainier and Solas. The former's whole personal quest is about him being a snake and the latter we learn in the epilogue scene. The others depend on the player's point of view so are subjective. 

*snip*

As for commitment, it's called self-preservation. He even admits to that being a reason for him being there because the Breach is something too big a threat for him to ignore. The moment it is ensured to not happen again, he is gone.

1. He doesn't know Cassandra well, and she's been very antagonistic towards him. Later, he doesn't know the Inquisitor well. Hawke on the other hand, he's known for years and is his best friend. Who's back would you have if you were him?

 

2. I was curious to know who you thought specifically, I wanted to see if I agreed.

 

3. Actually, he doesn't leave "the moment" it's over, and when he does he wants to help the refugees in Kirkwall.

 

4. If staying with the Inquisition to stop a threat to the world is selfish (obviously it is in part), then I guess every volunteer in the Inquisition is the most selfish person ever, right? Not one could be doing it for selfless reasons, and definitely not Varric. The HoF is selfish because they want to save the world! Not to mention he's at extreme risk in the Inner Circle, fighting terrifying things all the time.

[DaniSaur]

You're implying I approve of Leliana any more than I do of Varric. 

He chooses to cover Hawke(who would want to help by the way but Varric doesn't tell Hawke) by not having our back. I don't want someone who doesn't have my back to be a part of my team. 

 

Well, I'd guess that Banshee was reading http://forum.bioware...h-in-real-life/ (which is Banshee's thread, by the way) and saw that you said you'd be friends with Leliana and rivals with Varric. Maybe this doesn't mean much, but it kind of implies that you do approve of Leliana more than Varric.

 

In response to the rest, Varric chooses to have Hawke's back because he isn't sure what Cassandra's intentions are. He wanted to keep Hawke safe in DA2. In Inquisition, as soon as he knows Hawke will be useful (right after Corypheus is revealed to be the Elder One, right when they get to Skyhold), he finds her and enlists her for help. So... I'd say that Varric has both Hawke and the Inquisitor's back. But that's just my opinion.
 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

1. He doesn't know Cassandra well, and she's been very antagonistic towards him. Later, he doesn't know the Inquisitor well. Hawke on the other hand, he's known for years and is his best friend. Who's back would you have if you were him?

 

2. I was curious to know who you thought specifically, I wanted to see if I agreed.

 

3. Actually, he doesn't leave "the moment" it's over, and when he does he wants to help the refugees in Kirkwall.

 

4. If staying with the Inquisition to stop a threat to the world is selfish (obviously it is in part), then I guess every volunteer in the Inquisition is the most selfish person ever, right? Not one could be doing it for selfless reasons, and definitely not Varric. The HoF is selfish because they want to save the world! Not to mention he's at extreme risk in the Inner Circle, fighting terrifying things all the time.

1. She was only antagonistic after he started being a wise guy. At first she was very neutral and professional. 

As for the question, I would have the back of the people I am supposedly helping stop the end of the world. Plus like I said, a diplomatic Hawke like mine would have wanted to join yet he doesn't tell Hawke squat until "Oh hey, long time. By the way, get over here. Cory is back." 

 

2. Glad I could clear that up. 

 

3. You're right. He eats and drinks first then runs. He wants his life to go back to normal. 

 

4. Some are, certainly. The Iron Bull and the Chargers do it because they want to get paid. Sera does it so she can be able to play again. Vivienne does it because it makes her look good. Rainier does it to try to wash the blood of his hands. Then there are others who do it not because it affects them but because they think it is the right thing to do, thus aren't being selfish. 

 

 

Well, I'd guess that Banshee was reading http://forum.bioware...h-in-real-life/ (which is Banshee's thread, by the way) and saw that you said you'd be friends with Leliana and rivals with Varric. Maybe this doesn't mean much, but it kind of implies that you do approve of Leliana more than Varric.

 

In response to the rest, Varric chooses to have Hawke's back because he isn't sure what Cassandra's intentions are. He wanted to keep Hawke safe in DA2. In Inquisition, as soon as he knows Hawke will be useful (right after Corypheus is revealed to be the Elder One, right when they get to Skyhold), he finds her and enlists her for help. So... I'd say that Varric has both Hawke and the Inquisitor's back. But that's just my opinion.
 

I know it was. That's why I replied to it, actually.

The difference is the moment you should know, Leliana stops lying. She tells you about being a wanted bard before the assassins come to claim her head. Meanwhile Varric keeps lying until he thinks it is time you know. He doesn't tell his allies about another ally until he thinks you should know. 

 

As for having either protagonist's back, he has neither of mine's. 

[BansheeOwnage]

1. She was only antagonistic after he started being a wise guy. At first she was very neutral and professional. 

As for the question, I would have the back of the people I am supposedly helping stop the end of the world. Plus like I said, a diplomatic Hawke like mine would have wanted to join yet he doesn't tell Hawke squat until "Oh hey, long time. By the way, get over here. Cory is back." 

 

2. Glad I could clear that up. 

 

3. You're right. He eats and drinks first then runs. He wants his life to go back to normal. 

 

4. Some are, certainly. The Iron Bull and the Chargers do it because they want to get paid. Sera does it so she can be able to play again. Vivienne does it because it makes her look good. Rainier does it to try to wash the blood of his hands. Then there are others who do it not because it affects them but because they think it is the right thing to do, thus aren't being selfish. 

*snip*

1. To be honest there is literally no way for Hawke not to know about the breach and the Inquisition, so it's really Hawke's decision not to help until Varric asks. Regardless of your Hawke's personality. Blame the writers for that if you want, I would, but that's still how I see it.

 

2. (Previous 3 is now 2 etc.) You're still ignoring that he wants to help people. And for me he stays for a while. I would assume possibly through DLC.

 

3. I would still assume Bull is there to help in general as well. If you can do something to help, and get paid, great! I'm not arguing he wants to get paid, but people can have more than one motivation. Vivienne and Blackwall are smart enough to know that helping is a good idea, but again, I'm not arguing their other reasons, only that you can have multiple. Sera is probably too stupid (for lack of a better term) to genuinely want to help though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

1. To be honest there is literally no way for Hawke not to know about the breach and the Inquisition, so it's really Hawke's decision not to help until Varric asks. Regardless of your Hawke's personality. Blame the writers for that if you want, I would, but that's still how I see it.

 

2. (Previous 3 is now 2 etc.) You're still ignoring that he wants to help people. And for me he stays for a while. I would assume possibly through DLC.

 

3. I would still assume Bull is there to help in general as well. If you can do something to help, and get paid, great! I'm not arguing he wants to get paid, but people can have more than one motivation. Vivienne and Blackwall are smart enough to know that helping is a good idea, but again, I'm not arguing their other reasons, only that you can have multiple. Sera is probably too stupid (for lack of a better term) to genuinely want to help though.

 

1. He still doesn't even bother to ask. Hawke didn't even know Varric was with the Inquisition until he wrote to him about Corypheus reemerging. 

 

2. I'm ignoring what he says because he is a chronic liar, even admitting this a few times, who likes to make himself look better. There is a banter with Cassandra asking why doesn't Varric write about himself in his stories. He replies that he 'doesn't want to bore the readers' and Cassandra calls him out and says that he doesn't want to incriminate himself. He replies it is the same thing. Ever since DA2 you could tell he was telling the story to make himself look good during it, one time going too far and being called out on it. Him "helping the refugees at Kirkwall" is more likely "Helping The Hanged Man get back up and running so his life can return to normal". 

 

3. Well, the Qun side of him is there to spy on you. He can't be selfish in that because the Qun has no sense of self. You could say the Qun is being selfish through The Iron Bull though. As for Rainier and Vivienne, yes they are smart enough to realize it makes themselves look good. Vivienne doesn't care about the common people as more than a political tool to look good and Rainier sees it like I said a chance to wash the blood off his hands. So they are helping for selfish reasons.

 

But I suppose we should drop this or take it to PM. This thread has been answered a few pages ago. 

[DaniSaur]

I know it was. That's why I replied to it, actually.

The difference is the moment you should know, Leliana stops lying. She tells you about being a wanted bard before the assassins come to claim her head. Meanwhile Varric keeps lying until he thinks it is time you know. He doesn't tell his allies about another ally until he thinks you should know. 

 

As for having either protagonist's back, look to my answer to Banshee. 

 

Honestly, I think the moment I should know about Leliana is right about the time that I recruit her. I disliked the fact that she tells me her "truths" later in the game. But using your logic, the moment you should know where Hawke is (in my opinion) is exactly when he tells everyone where Hawke is. And then he stops lying. But, as I've said, these are both my opinions because this is all subjective. And how do we know that Varric didn't tell Hawke about anything? How do we know that Hawke didn't already know? There is a gigantic hole in the sky after all and demons popping out of a bunch of green rips in the environment that are kind of difficult to miss. Word spreads in those cases.

 

Also, about the Cassandra/Varric antagonism thing, for all Varric knew, Cassandra was trying to find Hawke and make her pay for starting the mage/templar rebellion. Why would Varric want to condemn his friend like that? Of course he was going to be a little antagonistic.

 

I don't know, I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for talking though
 

[SurelyForth]

The difference is the moment you should know, Leliana stops lying. She tells you about being a wanted bard before the assassins come to claim her head. Meanwhile Varric keeps lying until he thinks it is time you know. He doesn't tell his allies about another ally until he thinks you should know. 

 

As for having either protagonist's back, he has neither of mine's. 

At what point does Varric actually lie about Hawke in DAI? I don't recall even being able to ask him where Hawke is, and I don't recall Cassandra asking either. There's no reason for him to believe that Hawke is needed until Corypheus shows up, because the only threat they know about is the Breach, and Hawke can do **** all about that.

 

(You also seem to be forgetting that Hawke is a very controversial figure, and someone whose presence in the Inquisition could do as much harm as good). 

[BansheeOwnage]

 

 

 

1. He still doesn't even bother to ask. Hawke didn't even know Varric was with the Inquisition until he wrote to him about Corypheus reemerging. 

 

2. I'm ignoring what he says because he is a chronic liar, even admitting this a few times, who likes to make himself look better. There is a banter with Cassandra asking why doesn't Varric write about himself in his stories. He replies that he 'doesn't want to bore the readers' and Cassandra calls him out and says that he doesn't want to incriminate himself. He replies it is the same thing. Ever since DA2 you could tell he was telling the story to make himself look good during it, one time going too far and being called out on it. Him "helping the refugees at Kirkwall" is more likely "Helping The Hanged Man get back up and running so his life can return to normal". 

 

3. Well, the Qun side of him is there to spy on you. He can't be selfish in that because the Qun has no sense of self. You could say the Qun is being selfish through The Iron Bull though. As for Rainier and Vivienne, yes they are smart enough to realize it makes themselves look good. Vivienne doesn't care about the common people as more than a political tool to look good and Rainier sees it like I said a chance to wash the blood off his hands. So they are helping for selfish reasons.

 

But I suppose we should drop this or take it to PM. This thread has been answered a few pages ago. 

 

Yeah, you're right. I don't want to derail the thread. I agree with all of what you said in #3 though. Hey, I just noticed the # is also the 3 on the keyboard. I'm weird.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Honestly, I think the moment I should know about Leliana is right about the time that I recruit her. I disliked the fact that she tells me her "truths" later in the game. But using your logic, the moment you should know where Hawke is (in my opinion) is exactly when he tells everyone where Hawke is. And then he stops lying. But, as I've said, these are both my opinions because this is all subjective. And how do we know that Varric didn't tell Hawke about anything? How do we know that Hawke didn't already know? There is a gigantic hole in the sky after all and demons popping out of a bunch of green rips in the environment that are kind of difficult to miss. Word spreads in those cases.

 

Also, about the Cassandra/Varric antagonism thing, for all Varric knew, Cassandra was trying to find Hawke and make her pay for starting the mage/templar rebellion. Why would Varric want to condemn his friend like that? Of course he was going to be a little antagonistic.

 

I don't know, I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. Thanks for talking though
 

Alright. I figured hat's where we'd end up anyway. You're welcome.  

 

Yeah, you're right. I don't want to derail the thread. I agree with all of what you said in #3 though. Hey, I just noticed the # is also the 3 on the keyboard. I'm weird.

Great, now I can't stop noticing that.

[SomethingUsername]

The only real essential companions to the story are Cassandra and Solas, so all the others should have the option to be kicked out. It's stupid how Sera is the only one with that.

 

I couldn't believe that after I recruited Iron Bull that I couldn't get rid of him.

[JackPoint]

Hell I booted Sera out after the 1st conversation with her and Cole followed her out the door, iron bull never left the bar and dorian only stays because I can cheese the game with his broken ass **** necro skills. Casandra, Cullen and Liliaina hate me . No surprise really as biowarre resurrected my Liliana from peaceful slumber after dying in the previous game.

 

" nice work bioware, thanks for ruining my dragon age story and making dragon age keep a cheese wheel..

[Antergaton]

I'm confused. People say these characters can leave but they don't. If any of the 3 options become Devine it won't be until after the game, and even in end game they are around. You can tell Sera to leave but other than that she stays. IB stays, Dorian stays, Cole stays, Solas only leaves after you complete the main story, Varric stays. Only Blackwall leaves and you control his return or exile.

 

... am I playing a different game to people? Because only Sera had the 'leave now' option and only Blackwall actually left.

[Raikas]

I'm confused. People say these characters can leave but they don't. If any of the 3 options become Devine it won't be until after the game, and even in end game they are around. You can tell Sera to leave but other than that she stays. IB stays, Dorian stays, Cole stays, Solas only leaves after you complete the main story, Varric stays. Only Blackwall leaves and you control his return or exile.

 

... am I playing a different game to people? Because only Sera had the 'leave now' option and only Blackwall actually left.

 

As has been pointed already, Dorian will leave if you punch him and Cole will mind-wipe you and leave if you go the "Out, demon!" route at Skyhold.  Plus you can just not recruit them (along with Bull and Vivienne).

[Gab]

I know it is fantasy, and all that, but I find the game more enjoyable to play as if I would were it real life. Anyone who has skills that would help my party, in the face of such a potential catastrophe, would be welcome to stay! I'd kick them out the day after the battle was won. Maybe. The game doesn't really make it much of a loss if you remove one or two characters, but, in reality, if they have any real value, there should be some kind of loss if you decide to remove them from your team and choose to go on without their skills.