262 réponses à ce sujet

[God]

I don't feel inclined to hold that against them since they were indoctrinated... by the writers sudden eagerness to make them villains, that is. I agree they went overboard with them, in every possible way.

 

Indeed, this is where the more hamfisted black/white elements of the story came into play.

 

They tried to hard to make them seem bad, when they're an ambiguous group willing to carry out unethical research (that does get results) in the name of human advancement.

 

IMO, if said research has benefits, then its not unethical. Maybe distasteful, indiscreet at times, and worst of all (IMO anyway), impractical and wasteful of resources, but not unethical.

 

Then again, as people might've figured about me, I'm more of an unfettered neutral type anyway.

[Vegeta 77]

I am fine with human only adding 4 races like they did in Dai did lower the quality. They should focus on one hero and not waste more resources on extra races most people play as human anyway.

[themikefest]

If they bring back Cerberus in a future game, I wouldn't mind having the option to work with them. Of course I like to have TIM and Miranda back if that were to happen

[God]

ME 3 did take a lot of elements and cranked them up to 11 I'll agree, but Cerberus was still working in an antagonistic role as far back as ME 1. Killing the admiral as well as several platoons worth of Alliance personal, trying to use Rachni as biological weapons, trying to utilize the Thorian creepers for various actives, etc.

 

I don't see them as villainous at all. Maybe antagonistic, as you say, but not villainous. 

 

Kohoku was killed because he got too close. My view is that he shouldn't have poked his nose where it didn't belong. 

 

The marines killed were a field test of thresher maws to validate their validity as possible biological weapons (and part of my theory that the marines themselves were a control group for armor/weapons tests by Cerberus operatives for effectiveness against thresher maws).

 

The Rachni usage was something that nobody had any information on as a post-op weapon, and they were abandoned after their intelligence became clear as an invalid source of troops. 

 

And the Creepers essentially worked perfectly until Shepard killed the Thorian. As well, they were non-sentient beings that were already dead. There's nothing wrong with doing that, even by conventional morality.

[MrFob]

IMO, if said research has benefits, then its not unethical. Maybe distasteful, indiscreet at times, and worst of all (IMO anyway), impractical and wasteful of resources, but not unethical.

 

Being a researcher myself, I have a big problem with this statement. Especially research that deals with live subjects should not be conducted on a "the end justifies the means" premise. I know that moral compasses are subjective and often ambiguous but the history of research and science has shown that following such a rule inevitably leads to horrendous suffering.

 

So no way, research must be guided by ethical standards. We can discuss about the finer points of those but that statement of yours has very dangerous implications.

[God]

Hell, part of my headcanon has Shepard and Miranda bringing them back to become as a shadow superpower working in the name of galactic order, advancement, and human interest.

 

They have the same MO as before, just more pragmatism with their usage of illegal options.

[Han Shot First]

And of course, I want to see Cerberus back in ME4, and sympathetic to boot. 

 

I would actually like to see an organization that is similar to them, does the same things as them, and, perhaps most importantly, the ability to sympathize with them and support them.

 

ME3 really jerks that away from you. 

 

I think there should be humans who have similar goals. But Cerberus as an organization should be dead and gone. Realistically I don't think it would be possible for them to continue existing in the aftermath of the Reaper war. As the greatest traitors ever in the history of the galaxy, the Cerberus 'brand' should be damaged beyond all repair. Even many of the people who share their pre-war ideology would likely despise Cerberus for it's role in the Reaper War, or be embarrassed to be linked with them in any way.

[God]

Being a researcher myself, I have a big problem with this statement. Especially research that deals with live subjects should not be conducted on a "the end justifies the means" premise. I know that moral compasses are subjective and often ambiguous but the history of research and science has shown that following such a rule inevitably leads to horrendous suffering.

 

So no way, research must be guided by ethical standards. We can discuss about the finer points of those but that statement of yours has very dangerous implications.

 

I disagree, as a person who is not a researcher on specific scientific fields (though I do have operational experience with more sociological experimentation).

 

I'll do a PM if you like (go ahead and message me) to prevent a dragged out statement, but suffice to say, I'm running more on 'for the greater good', though 'end justifies means' is still valid. 

 

I'll clarify that I believe in pragmatism above all else, and being wise and sensible about the usage of resources (not just physical but political, economic, and social tools). IMO, if something can't be solved practically, then I resort to exploring the more... unethical options. To clarify further, what I mean is that no options are off the table, but I'm not going to resort to the more unethical ones if I don't need to or if its not practical or sensible.

[God]

I think there should be humans who have similar goals. But Cerberus as an organization should be dead and gone. Realistically I don't think it would be possible for them to continue existing in the aftermath of the Reaper war. As the greatest traitors ever in the history of the galaxy, the Cerberus 'brand' should be damaged beyond all repair. Even many of the people who share their pre-war ideology would likely despise Cerberus for it's role in the Reaper War, or be embarrassed to be linked with them in any way.

 

On a macro-scale, perhaps.

 

On a micro (headcanon) scale, my Shepard does a massive whitewashing of them. And people will listen, because he's their hero and god who just saved them. Plus, he knows them better than most other people alive. 

 

TIM and Cerberus will be remembered fondly in my universe. 

 

Hell, technically speaking, if you Control, you essentially did prove them right all along. As well, I would hesitate to call them traitors anyway. They were indoctrinated after all. Granted, ME3 sort of takes that part of the lore and turns it around more by only making unsympathetic characters or parties indoctrinated.

[Andrew Lucas]

Back on topic, I wouldn't mind if we only get to play as a human, that would probably be the best choice.

The weirdness that would be seeing a Krogan getting on with a female/male human....

[Dar'Nara]

...

The weirdness that would be seeing a Krogan getting on with a female/male human....

Now that'd be...interesting

[Vortex13]

I really hope that the focus on exploration for the new Mass Effect title will include exploring truly alien species and societies. I have no problem with a human only protagonist; in fact I would prefer it if it means more content and reactivity; but I do hope that the narrative steers away from human centric elements and focuses on the alien side of the universe. 

 

 

I would like to see a setting that is more about how big and diverse the universe is, not about how everything should conform to our standards. I want to go and explore that barren planet with conditions completely unsuitable for human life and discover the silicon based lifeforms that exist there; to see the strange and the weird elements of the galaxy. Etc.

[God]

Yeah, I figure we should get back on topic. No need to derail this with an argument over Cerberus. As I said, message me if you want to talk, argue, discuss, whatever.

[Han Shot First]

The weirdness that would be seeing a Krogan getting on with a female/male human....

 

There is also that.

 

If Bioware ever goes the multiple playable species route, I think it is best to keep the options limited to the more humanoid aliens for that reason. I suppose Turians as well. Personally I think Turian-human pairings are a little gross as well, but the genie was let out of that particular bottle with Garrus. (He should have never been a LI, IMO)

[I Am Robot]

I don't see them as villainous at all. Maybe antagonistic, as you say, but not villainous. 

 

Kohoku was killed because he got too close. My view is that he shouldn't have poked his nose where it didn't belong. 

 

The marines killed were a field test of thresher maws to validate their validity as possible biological weapons (and part of my theory that the marines themselves were a control group for armor/weapons tests by Cerberus operatives for effectiveness against thresher maws).

 

The Rachni usage was something that nobody had any information on as a post-op weapon, and they were abandoned after their intelligence became clear as an invalid source of troops. 

 

And the Creepers essentially worked perfectly until Shepard killed the Thorian. As well, they were non-sentient beings that were already dead. There's nothing wrong with doing that, even by conventional morality.

 

I'm sorry if you don't view that as villainous, what do you view as having the quality?  

 

Oh my bad this is off topic 

[God]

There is also that.

 

If Bioware ever goes the multiple playable species route, I think it is best to keep the options limited to the more humanoid aliens for that reason. I suppose Turians as well. Personally I think Turian-human pairings are a little gross as well, but the genie was let out of that particular bottle with Garrus. (He should have never been a LI, IMO)

 

Yeah, sans maybe Asari, I'm not big on alien/human relationships at all.

[I Am Robot]

I really hope that the focus on exploration for the new Mass Effect title will include exploring truly alien species and societies. I have no problem with a human only protagonist; in fact I would prefer it if it means more content and reactivity; but I do hope that the narrative steers away from human centric elements and focuses on the alien side of the universe. 

 

 

I would like to see a setting that is more about how big and diverse the universe is, not about how everything should conform to our standards. I want to go and explore that barren planet with conditions completely unsuitable for human life and discover the silicon based lifeforms that exist there; to see the strange and the weird elements of the galaxy. Etc.

 

Silicon based life is... problematic. Silicon cannot form the same complex compounds as carbon. Just a side note. Back on to the desired topic of conversation. 

[Andrew Lucas]

There is also that.
 
If Bioware ever goes the multiple playable species route, I think it is best to keep the options limited to the more humanoid aliens for that reason. I suppose Turians as well. Personally I think Turian-human pairings are a little gross as well, but the genie was let out of that particular bottle with Garrus. (He should have never been a LI, IMO)

Yeah. I just... have a hard time picturing that. Sure, the Qunari can be an example of that, but like you said, they are a humanoid species as well so it isn't that hard to look acceptable.

But a Krogan? Wtf, my spine shivers at the thought.

Keep human as the only playable race IMO, he/she can return in future instalments and it wouldn't be needed to sacrifice any extras features by including multiple races.

[Master Race]

Human master race only please.

[themikefest]

There is also that.

 

If Bioware ever goes the multiple playable species route, I think it is best to keep the options limited to the more humanoid aliens for that reason. I suppose Turians as well. Personally I think Turian-human pairings are a little gross as well, but the genie was let out of that particular bottle with Garrus. (He should have never been a LI, IMO)

Asari and human pairings are gross as well. Keep relationships within the same species. Human/human, asari/asari, turian/turian

[MrFob]

I disagree, as a person who is not a researcher on specific scientific fields (though I do have operational experience with more sociological experimentation).

 

I'll do a PM if you like (go ahead and message me) to prevent a dragged out statement, but suffice to say, I'm running more on 'for the greater good', though 'end justifies means' is still valid. 

 

I'll clarify that I believe in pragmatism above all else, and being wise and sensible about the usage of resources (not just physical but political, economic, and social tools). IMO, if something can't be solved practically, then I resort to exploring the more... unethical options. To clarify further, what I mean is that no options are off the table, but I'm not going to resort to the more unethical ones if I don't need to or if its not practical or sensible.

 

Ok, sent you a pm but suffice it to say here that I strongly disagree.

[Vespervin]

Aww, I guess we won't know the outcome of that debate. @God: You should become the head of Cerberus' PR division.

[Asari_Party]

Both DA:O and DA:I have race-selection and I think the games benefited greatly as a result. Mass Effect isn't only about humans and I definitely don't want to play as Shepard 2.0. We already saved the galaxy as a human for three games, so why do it again?

[God]

Aww, I guess we won't know the outcome of that debate. @God: You should become the head of Cerberus' PR division.

 

Cerberus is already my chosen inheritors.

 

All other aliens are abominations under my chosen race.

[God]

Both DA:O and DA:I have race-selection and I think the games benefited greatly as a result. Mass Effect isn't only about humans and I definitely don't want to play as Shepard 2.0. We already saved the galaxy as a human for three games, so why do it again?

 

Because that's what humans do?