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Society to Destroy the Grey Wardens.


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#226
Ynqve

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I kinda figured that the Wardens agreed to let Alistair go if he's a drunk. You had the option to execute him (for this reason, and to secure Anora's throne), but you as the acting warden commander of Ferelden decided to let him leave in peace. 

 

(And yes, you basically are acting warden commander from the moment Alistair gives you the lead. Just because there's no ceremony or you get the official title doesn't change that. You're the leader of the two surviving members of the Fereldan order, that makes you the commanding officer.) 



#227
TheKomandorShepard

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I kinda figured that the Wardens agreed to let Alistair go if he's a drunk. You had the option to execute him (for this reason, and to secure Anora's throne), but you as the acting warden commander of Ferelden decided to let him leave in peace. 

 

(And yes, you basically are acting warden commander from the moment Alistair gives you the lead. Just because there's no ceremony or you get the official title doesn't change that. You're the leader of the two surviving members of the Fereldan order, that makes you the commanding officer.) 

Not at all the warden becomes WC 6 months after the blight during daa not during the blight.



#228
I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE

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I kinda figured that the Wardens agreed to let Alistair go if he's a drunk. You had the option to execute him (for this reason, and to secure Anora's throne), but you as the acting warden commander of Ferelden decided to let him leave in peace.

(And yes, you basically are acting warden commander from the moment Alistair gives you the lead. Just because there's no ceremony or you get the official title doesn't change that. You're the leader of the two surviving members of the Fereldan order, that makes you the commanding officer.)


Wouldn't Riordan technically be acting commander at that point? He was the most experienced and the one who knew what needed to be done, anyway.

#229
Ynqve

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Wouldn't Riordan technically be acting commander at that point? He was the most experienced and the one who knew what needed to be done, anyway.

 

He seemed content to let us decide. And even if that's the case, he respects your decision.



#230
Master Warder Z_

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He seemed content to let us decide. And even if that's the case, he respects your decision.


It's a bit odd it never came up.

#231
SporkFu

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I always kinda got the impression that Riordan knew this was his last fight, and so he didn't care how they did it, just as long as the archdemon was killed by a Warden. 



#232
LOLandStuff

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That'd be kind of a **** move since Riordan just shows up and for him to take charge after you've done all the hard work.

 

"Alright, rookie, step aside. I'll handle it from here. Objections?"



#233
Shadow Quickpaw

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Corypheous managed to manipulate the wardens in the same way he got to the mages and Templars. he took something physical about them and screwed with it. In each case the group in question had something about them that set them apart from all other peoples in Thedas, something biological.

 

Mages: They have magic. Cory manipulated that by preying on their fear of other people burning them out, making them think Tevinter was their only option.

 

Templars: They all consume lyrium (some die if they stop). Cory manipulated that by corrupting the lyrium they were using.

 

Wardens: They all go through the joining, becoming semi-blighted creatures. Cory, being a master of the blight, was able to affect them and their judgment (at least the ones within range).

 

The wardens screwed up, but the only person to blame was Corypheous. Kick them out/eradicate them and they never understand why they were wrong.



#234
Xetykins

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I dont think they execute wardens for going awol. If there's a blight, they dont have a choice anyway but heed that call.

#235
SporkFu

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Yeah, even though he basically left the order, they didn't execute Anders. Hmm, Thedas would be a different place if they had.

#236
gottaloveme

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I agree that we need to keep the wardens but with a drastic overhaul of policies and procedures. Conscription special powers etc should only be used during a blight. Not in-between iirc.

 

Some may start out scummy (as do the Legion of the Dead), but the Warden order is a redemptive one (unless of course you play house to a spirit of justice). Blackwall does tend to personify the earlier warden values and eventually, because of the real Blackwall, stands up to take responsibility for his actions. His actions and ultimate sacrifice (whatever judgement is rendered) will bring him back to himself. Restore something of a nobler heart and mind that he lost.


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#237
Augustei

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Our armies were loyal to our PC, not Rhiordan. Ofc we were acting Warden-Commander



#238
SporkFu

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Our armies were loyal to our PC, not Rhiordan. Ofc we were acting Warden-Commander

Maker, don't get TheKomandorShepard started again :P
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#239
Zetrial

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As many have pointed out Anders deserting is obvious, and he goes into hiding because of it. Now you complain about the narrative forcing you to do the joining, just as the narrative forces Anders to live until the end of DA:2.

Multiple people had right to execute him, yet chose not too. The wardens Anders can run in to are Stroud and Nathaniel, Stroud appears to owe him a favour so chooses not to execute him and Nathaniel and himself were comrades, so again he dodges the bullet there. It doesn't mean no Warden will try to kill him, they already tried before he went into hiding, the order attempted to have him killed after his becoming an abomination came to light. He killed Templars and Wardens working together then fled from both.

So yes he is being hunted, he may not be public enemy #1 so not every resource of the Wardens are used to hunt him, instead, just a standing order, if you find Anders, kill him.

Hell Hawke had every right himself to kill Anders as an abomination but the narrative doesn't allow us, we are bound within it, if you do not wish to be bound to their narrative your option is either do not play or head cannon it away. It won't change the official narrative though.

Jory also tried to desert during the joining, how did that end up for him? Oh right, Duncan killed him. Just as he would have if they allowed the HoF to try to desert and ignore the right of conscription. It would have been humorous had they allowed us to try though.

 

 

A few people have illustrated why Alistair hasn't been actively hunted after the 5th Blight and it could also simply be he was pardoned for his assistance in ending the Blight, but if he is your Warden ally in DA:I he is actively being hunted for going against the order. Just like Stroud or Loghain if they are your ally instead. They are considered higher priority and so actual resources are used in their manhunt.

 

There are many examples throughout history of people getting battlefield promotions, temporary commissions and brevet ranks, the same happened to the HoF during the 5th blight, they would be considered acting Warden Commander during the blight, the needs of the moment making it impossible to have it officially ratified, when it is possible to restore a command structure those in charge can choose to make that change permanent and official or declare it void. In this case they chose to make it official and give the HoF the title if they survived.

Riordan could of usurped command if he chose, but is probably wise enough that it would of caused more problems than it would have solved, so instead slipped into an advisory role for the HoF.

 

Now to use Komandor's own analogy against him, does a police officer have to get the okay, permission and order from the police commissioner to arrest someone for shop lifting, or attempting to stop a murder? No, they have standing mandates, just as Wardens do. Orders coming down from above are usually in regards to deployment, not, 'oh see that guy stealing that car, go arrest him'.

So the order does not need to hold your hand and coddle you at all times, treating you like a special snowflake for you to be part of it, that is just ridiculous and not possible in this time setting. It could take months to get orders back and forth from the Anderfels to Fereldan, are the Wardens expected to just sit on their hands until they get an order saying, stop the blight! No, people in any job are expected to be be able to perform their function without constant supervision, and the Grey Warden Order is more autonomous than most.


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#240
Ynqve

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Not at all the warden becomes WC 6 months after the blight during daa not during the blight.

 

ACTING warden commander. As in the person who does the job until they give someone the title permanently. As in the person who leads the wardens until they appoint a new warden commander. How is this hard to understand? 


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#241
garrusfan1

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I think they need to change a bit but not be destroyed. Less secrecy and all that. Also better leaders. Then add that they should make more trips to the deep roads. You may not be able to wipe out darkspawn but with more grey wardens (not all go through the ritual right away and if they catch the taint in the deep roads they can do the ritual.) they may be able to take their numbers down enough that the blights would do less damage (and allow the dwarves to gain ground) But god why would you destroy them.



#242
TheKomandorShepard

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Our armies were loyal to our PC, not Rhiordan. Ofc we were acting Warden-Commander

Right because leading ferelden armies mean you are WC. ;)

 

 

As many have pointed out Anders deserting is obvious, and he goes into hiding because of it. Now you complain about the narrative forcing you to do the joining, just as the narrative forces Anders to live until the end of DA:2.

Multiple people had right to execute him, yet chose not too. The wardens Anders can run in to are Stroud and Nathaniel, Stroud appears to owe him a favour so chooses not to execute him and Nathaniel and himself were comrades, so again he dodges the bullet there. It doesn't mean no Warden will try to kill him, they already tried before he went into hiding, the order attempted to have him killed after his becoming an abomination came to light. He killed Templars and Wardens working together then fled from both.

So yes he is being hunted, he may not be public enemy #1 so not every resource of the Wardens are used to hunt him, instead, just a standing order, if you find Anders, kill him.

Hell Hawke had every right himself to kill Anders as an abomination but the narrative doesn't allow us, we are bound within it, if you do not wish to be bound to their narrative your option is either do not play or head cannon it away. It won't change the official narrative though.

Jory also tried to desert during the joining, how did that end up for him? Oh right, Duncan killed him. Just as he would have if they allowed the HoF to try to desert and ignore the right of conscription. It would have been humorous had they allowed us to try though.

 

 

A few people have illustrated why Alistair hasn't been actively hunted after the 5th Blight and it could also simply be he was pardoned for his assistance in ending the Blight, but if he is your Warden ally in DA:I he is actively being hunted for going against the order. Just like Stroud or Loghain if they are your ally instead. They are considered higher priority and so actual resources are used in their manhunt.

 

There are many examples throughout history of people getting battlefield promotions, temporary commissions and brevet ranks, the same happened to the HoF during the 5th blight, they would be considered acting Warden Commander during the blight, the needs of the moment making it impossible to have it officially ratified, when it is possible to restore a command structure those in charge can choose to make that change permanent and official or declare it void. In this case they chose to make it official and give the HoF the title if they survived.

Riordan could of usurped command if he chose, but is probably wise enough that it would of caused more problems than it would have solved, so instead slipped into an advisory role for the HoF.

 

Now to use Komandor's own analogy against him, does a police officer have to get the okay, permission and order from the police commissioner to arrest someone for shop lifting, or attempting to stop a murder? No, they have standing mandates, just as Wardens do. Orders coming down from above are usually in regards to deployment, not, 'oh see that guy stealing that car, go arrest him'.

So the order does not need to hold your hand and coddle you at all times, treating you like a special snowflake for you to be part of it, that is just ridiculous and not possible in this time setting. It could take months to get orders back and forth from the Anderfels to Fereldan, are the Wardens expected to just sit on their hands until they get an order saying, stop the blight! No, people in any job are expected to be be able to perform their function without constant supervision, and the Grey Warden Order is more autonomous than most.

Sweet Love Narative never forces Anders to stay grey warden he is grey warden as long he want to be one as i said many many times he can go tell screw wardens i you have low approval with him and his membership is done.

And yet you ignore what i have saying consequence of something not act what is important as i said you say that you leave wardens or aren't warden nothing can't stop you from doing such.

 

In dai order was manipulated and pretty much controlled by corry forces it shows how big idiots wardens are but don't show that they hunt peoples that left because in that case alistair didn't and yet again not that this matter here.

 

Not at all from all i know it is your headcanon (that you gladly accused me of doing despite that what i said was in the game) there was nothing that in game says you are WC and no promotion you don't become WC until 6 months after blight.

 

Going on your own plan and mission isn't giving mandates especially then are still working under police orders having as i said solving own case goes for policeman not police.And as i said grey warden order had no role in fifth blight and the warden own misssion was his own not order mission and in fact they disapproved it as we know.

 

 

ACTING warden commander. As in the person who does the job until they give someone the title permanently. As in the person who leads the wardens until they appoint a new warden commander. How is this hard to understand? 

Not at all you don't lead wardens you lead independent group of adventures and then possible ferelden army as general of ferelden army not WC that you become in daa not at all being WC. 



#243
Zetrial

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Sweet Love Narative never forces Anders to stay grey warden he is grey warden as long he want to be one as i said many many times he can go tell screw wardens i you have low approval with him and his membership is done.

And yet you ignore what i have saying consequence of something not act what is important as i said you say that you leave wardens or aren't warden nothing can't stop you from doing such.

 

 

No the narrative forces us to not be able to execute Anders for his desertion or being an abomintion, I'm not arguing he didn't leave the Wardens. They tried to kill him for being an abomination. I am not ignoring consequences in the slightest.

Jory - attempted desertion - executed.

Anders - desertion - in hiding and not actively being hunted.

Stroud/Alistair/Loghain - desertion - in hiding being actively hunted.

Those are all consequences of of their actions, which I all mentioned as such.

 

They don't hunt those that left? So those Wardens in Crestwood aren't hunting for the Warden Ally? Good to know, I'm sure the Warden Ally will be relieved to hear that...

 

Did the HoF go by that rank, no, were they leading what remained of the Grey Warden Order in Fereldan, yes. So the role they had assumed was the role of Warden Commander. They aren't officially Warden Commander until 6 months after the Blight ends, as you say, but they were doing the job well before then.

 

No role? Seriously still? Riordan? Alistair? Even if you want to wish away the HoF being a Warden and say I humour you, that still leaves them, do those 2 have zero role in stopping the Blight? Riordan doesn't wing clip the Archdemon and force it to the ground? That is a role right there. There is no Grey Warden strike force involved true, but there are Grey Wardens involved and they are representatives of the Order.

 

As could you please provide where, and with what words the Order dissaproved of the HoF ending the Blight? My memory is sketchy and I haven't played DA2 in years, I simply cannot recall it, and quick searches lead to nothing coming up so I could use some specifics.

Did they disapprove of everything the HoF did or just certain decisions, because hey half of my companions disapprove of a decision here or there I make at some point in DA:I, it does not mean they disapprove of me in general.



#244
Augustei

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Right because leading ferelden armies mean you are WC. ;)

Acting Warden-Commander.
Well we were A Grey Warden, one of two in the country and the other guy followed our lead. The armies we gathered were loyal to us and we were a grey warden fufilling the wardens agenda. Yeah we were acting Warden-Commander. Unless theres another name for the guy in charge of the nations chapter that I don't know about? Just because nobody comes along and personally bestows the title on us doesn't mean it isn't so.
 



#245
TheKomandorShepard

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No the narrative forces us to not be able to execute Anders for his desertion or being an abomintion, I'm not arguing he didn't leave the Wardens. They tried to kill him for being an abomination. I am not ignoring consequences in the slightest.

Jory - attempted desertion - executed.

Anders - desertion - in hiding and not actively being hunted.

Stroud/Alistair/Loghain - desertion - in hiding being actively hunted.

Those are all consequences of of their actions, which I all mentioned as such.

 

They don't hunt those that left? So those Wardens in Crestwood aren't hunting for the Warden Ally? Good to know, I'm sure the Warden Ally will be relieved to hear that...

 

Did the HoF go by that rank, no, were they leading what remained of the Grey Warden Order in Fereldan, yes. So the role they had assumed was the role of Warden Commander. They aren't officially Warden Commander until 6 months after the Blight ends, as you say, but they were doing the job well before then.

 

No role? Seriously still? Riordan? Alistair? Even if you want to wish away the HoF being a Warden and say I humour you, that still leaves them, do those 2 have zero role in stopping the Blight? Riordan doesn't wing clip the Archdemon and force it to the ground? That is a role right there. There is no Grey Warden strike force involved true, but there are Grey Wardens involved and they are representatives of the Order.

 

As could you please provide where, and with what words the Order dissaproved of the HoF ending the Blight? My memory is sketchy and I haven't played DA2 in years, I simply cannot recall it, and quick searches lead to nothing coming up so I could use some specifics.

Did they disapprove of everything the HoF did or just certain decisions, because hey half of my companions disapprove of a decision here or there I make at some point in DA:I, it does not mean they disapprove of me in general.

As i said consequences don't matter in what im saying as anders is already prove that RoC/joining makes you grey warden member and you can't do anything about it not true now you are talking about consequences of doing that what is completely irevelant here.

 

Jory tried to escape from guy he wanted force him into joining in front of that guy he died but still refused and that was consequence for him

 

Stround/Alistair/Loghain were hunted because grey warden saw them as dangerous to their little crazy plan as they knew about it and didn't agree go with it.Pretty much order wasn't acting on standard procedures.

 

Again not at all you don't command grey warden forces neither you have authority lol all you command is independent group of adventures not grey wardens that alistair was in your group don't make you WC niether point you act as one.

 

Pretty much alistair says so if he warden in da 2 that order didn't approved warden mission and no matter what decisions you take they always disapprove and i don't talk here about stoping blight but his mission to stop blight.

 

 

Acting Warden-Commander.
Well we were A Grey Warden, one of two in the country and the other guy followed our lead. The armies we gathered were loyal to us and we were a grey warden fufilling the wardens agenda. Yeah we were acting Warden-Commander. Unless theres another name for the guy in charge of the nations chapter that I don't know about? Just because nobody comes along and personally bestows the title on us doesn't mean it isn't so.
 

As i said not at all you don't command grey warden forces in ferelden at best you command ferelden forces as you become general.Generals or kings?

 

Duncan was WC and he was commanding only grey wardens king and ferelden general were commanding rest of forces.



#246
Zetrial

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So you mean this @ 1m19s?

 

 

Them not being impressed that the Wardens got involved with multiple political squabbles is hardly surprising. Not being impressed does not mean they didn't approve or disavow of the mission in general, they had issue with a particular part of it. No where does that say they disapproved or disavowed the HoF's mission to stop the blight.

Even if at the end of the day the Order disapproved with the entire existence of the HoF, it would mean little unless they disavowed them. Publicly declared they were not acting on behalf of them. 2 completely different things.

 

Consequences don't matter? Tell that to Jory who's life ended with that consequence. Anders was a Warden for some time, so yes the RoC made him a Warden, he later deserted when they tried to kill him for being an abomination. Does that mean he was never a Warden?

He left and then hid in an area strife with refugees and no Grey Warden outpost, can you highlight in DA:O where the Hero of Fereldan can do the a similar thing?

 

Alistair is all that is left of the Grey Warden forces in Fereldan, he places himself under your command. That puts you in charge of the sole Fereldan Warden, and makes you his commander, congratulations of your promotion, whether you want to call that Senior Warden, Acting Warden Commander or Random Schmuk #23 is up to you, the title may change but the role doesn't and you later add Riordan to that ever growing list.

 

I think this will be my last reply to you, not because I find the topic overly tiresome but because deciphering what is typed is becoming a strain. I am guessing English is not your native language, which is fine, it would of been nice to be able to communicate with greater fluency and I suck at anything outside of English :lol: .


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#247
TheKomandorShepard

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So you mean this @ 1m19s?

 

Them not being impressed that the Wardens got involved with multiple political squabbles is hardly surprising. Not being impressed does not mean they didn't approve or disavow of the mission in general, they had issue with a particular part of it. No where does that say they disapproved or disavowed the HoF's mission to stop the blight.

Even if at the end of the day the Order disapproved with the entire existence of the HoF, it would mean little unless they disavowed them. Publicly declared they were not acting on behalf of them. 2 completely different things.

 

Consequences don't matter? Tell that to Jory who's life ended with that consequence. Anders was a Warden for some time, so yes the RoC made him a Warden, he later deserted when they tried to kill him for being an abomination. Does that mean he was never a Warden?

He left and then hid in an area strife with refugees and no Grey Warden outpost, can you highlight in DA:O where the Hero of Fereldan can do the a similar thing?

 

Alistair is all that is left of the Grey Warden forces in Fereldan, he places himself under your command. That puts you in charge of the sole Fereldan Warden, and makes you his commander, congratulations of your promotion, whether you want to call that Senior Warden, Acting Warden Commander or Random Schmuk #23 is up to you, the title may change but the role doesn't and you later add Riordan to that ever growing list.

 

I think this will be my last reply to you, not because I find the topic overly tiresome but because deciphering what is typed is becoming a strain. I am guessing English is not your native language, which is fine, it would of been nice to be able to communicate with greater fluency and I suck at anything outside of English :lol: .

Not being impressed = not approving what warden did in ferelden as i said warden order wasn't part of warden mission neither they approved it and they cleary not as they weren't glad with wardens doing.Why wardens would denay something that would give them power and influence but as i said fact is they had nothing to do with warden mission wasn't their plan and wasn't their execution so it is more taking credits for something they didn't do.

 

You seem to love ingore what im saying because i repeat that for 20 times you claimed that if law or grey wardens claim that you are grey warden you are grey warden no matter what is your opinion what i alredy crushed as you can tell them go screw yourself and as example of that i used anders now what grey wardens will do about it here completely unimportant whether they send death squad after you or not you left and it was your decision not grey wardens death squad is only potential consequence of that.

As i said HoF can say they don't give foops about grey wardens and pretty much don't see himself/herself as one game forces you stop blight not being grey warden however as who you see yourself doing that is up to player as well reasons why you do that.

 

Yeah my warden is commander of qunari because sten put himself under his lead... as i said alistair joins an independent group of adventurers same as sten and every companion he don't make you grey warden leader nor he have any authority as i said sten don't make you leader of qunari just because he joins you and acts under your command.

 

Also the warden isn't under riordan authority (as warden can tell him go screw himself) nor riordan is under warden authoirty they rather work as allies as you with eamon.  



#248
Lady Artifice

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Agreed although it seems both are being rewritten heavily...lets hope it doesn't end the same.

Cerberus was my bread and butter.

 

You're a Cerberus fan, a Lambert fan, and you sided with Petrice. 

 

 

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Dolores Umbridge was your favorite Happy Potter character and your favorite food was fermented shark. 


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#249
TheKomandorShepard

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You're a Cerberus fan, a Lambert fan, and you sided with Petrice. 

 

 

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Dolores Umbridge was your favorite Happy Potter character and your favorite food was fermented shark. 

And what is being wrong with being cerberus or lambert fan?



#250
Lady Artifice

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And what is being wrong with being cerberus or lambert fan?

 

 

Z and I just happen to disagree about just about everything, ever. I'm giving him a hard time about it because I enjoy doing that.

 

I'll answer the second question though. 
 

Lambert was a short-sighted megalomaniac.