326 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Yes, well it's a game - wouldn't really do if they were kicking the player's butts, would it? Let's be realistic here and separate what they do and their actual history in Thedas from concessions necessarily made for the player's ego. And let's see, if they've been consistently demolished, then who saved everyone during the First, Second, Third, Fourth, and Fifth Blights?

Oh, well, let's see...it certainly wasn't you.

It was Thedas that saved itself. As Riordan pointed out Tevinter had absolutely no problem with killing Dumat. The problem had do with keeping him dead. In every war the Wardens gather a large army to die on their behalf while their kill the archdemon. DAO was just the most extreme example of it.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Orlesian Wardens are forbidden from crossing the border though, man your Warden must be a pretty big A'hole to leave an entire country to die when he's one of the only wardens in it lol.

He'd probably have to leave Thedas, The Wardens are a Thedas wide organization after all. Even in areas they don't have chapter houses they still operate there at times (Like Kirkwall). If your warden doesn't get pressed back into service upon discovery they'd probably kill him for desertion. Especially desertion during a blight.
Thats how Alistair died in my game actually, attempted desertion during a blight. My Warden wouldn't allow that precedent to be established.
 

To be honest only person that knew about The warden well while being loyal to wardens was alistair outside that everyone was dead and you would be long way gone by that time and looking by anders example well they aren't paying much attetion to that...

 

Alistair isn't executed because he want leave wardens he is executed because he is dangerous to ferelden monarch your warden reasons to allow anora kill him are up to you.

[Augustei]

To be honest only person that knew about The warden well while being loyal to wardens was alistair outside that everyone was dead and you would be long way gone by that time and looking by anders example well they aren't paying much attetion to that...

 

Alistair isn't executed because he want leave wardens he is executed because he is dangerous to ferelden monarch your warden reasons to allow anora kill him are up to you.

Yeah and Alistair will probs rat you out, heck the guy gives the Inquisitor a fair bit of info regarding The Warden undertaking the dark ritual despite promising to keep quiet about it.
Anders encountered Stroud right in the depths of the deep roads where he was with only two other Wardens, they have no insight into his location, heck he indicates he thought he was dead. But yeah Stroud would have witnessed the killing machine that is Hawke in action and would have thought better of pressing the issue. But yeah we're even given an indication that Stroud is somehow indebted to Anders anyway.
As for the ones in the Vimmarks, They had bigger issues at hand.

Alistair is ultimately executed because the Warden allows it, My Warden allowed it based on the reasons Ive stated as well as those you've just stated.
 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yeah and Alistair will probs rat you out, heck the guy gives the Inquisitor a fair bit of info regarding The Warden undertaking the dark ritual despite promising to keep quiet about it.
Anders encountered Stroud right in the depths of the deep roads where he was with only two other Wardens, they have no insight into his location, heck he indicates he thought he was dead. But yeah Stroud would have witnessed the killing machine that is Hawke in action and would have thought better of pressing the issue. But yeah we're even given an indication that Stroud is somehow indebted to Anders anyway.
As for the ones in the Vimmarks, They had bigger issues at hand.

Alistair is ultimately executed because the Warden allows it, My Warden allowed it based on the reasons Ive stated as well as those you've just stated.
 

Does he? All i know he tells about that is that the warden walks darth path but im not sure i saw that only in video i never had him as warden.

Anders can meet wardens twice in da 2 during deep roads and during qunari invasion and they don't rly care neither they seem to be concerned with hunting him as far it is only example outside perhaps the warden or alistair (if king or drunkard) .

 

Sure but reasons why warden does that are up to player. 

[Zetrial]

The only secret the wardens should share is that an Archdemon will respawn unless it is a warden that kills it and that it costs them their life in the process. That would help minimise situations like Loghain from happening again.

 

Now imagine the wardens go extinct with all their information becoming accessible to the nations of Thedas before the fifth blight. It has been 400 years since the last blight and many people think they are merely myths. Do you think any of these nations are going to keep a 100% mortality rate legion operational for that length of time without their sole objective appearing? I doubt it, they would of been scrapped.

 

This legion costs resources to keep active, fairly constant and willing recruits as even attempting to join it is a death sentence. Using it as a form of punishment for criminals will not work at all, penal legions only work when there is an incentive for those criminals to fight, a pardon after so many suicide missions and so on. What incentive is there for these criminals to even attempt undergoing the joining? It is a guaranteed death sentence and they know it. They may as well have a quick death as far as they are concerned, counting on honour from those that more than likely have none, not going to work.

 

Now if a nation thinks I'll just mass conscript from my people if a blight does arrive rather than spend the resources on a standing legion, you have the issue of revolts that come with mass conscription and are hoping that some of your conscripted people actually survive, what do you do if a blight arrives on your doorstep and everyone you forced to attempt to join dies in the process, you have no current back ups so you are shafted.

 

So they reach out to another nation, well now this other nation can play politics, yeah we'll come save you but it will cost you half your territory. It becomes a bargaining chip and a tool of petty bickering between nations rather than a force standing for all of Thedas. It also leaves it open for sabotage, I'm sure we could trust Tevinter to not try to poison all of Orlais supply of blood, arranging for mercenaries to eliminate any standing force of tainted troops and leaving them open to a blight with Tevinter coming down and resettling Orlais after it falls. With a single force without loyalties to any nation this eliminates the chance of this happening, after all they are there to protect everyone from Darkspawn.

 

As blights threaten all of Thedas and require more than a single nation to stop it, a force beheld to no single nation is the most ideal solution. Giving away every secret of the wardens is promoting self interest among a time when unification is required to get the job done and would most likely see the next blight wipe the surface of Thedas clean of life while each nation vied to end up in the best position post blight rather than focus on just stopping it.

[Red of Rivia]

[LOLandStuff]

Let's say a bunch of darkspawn decided to go for a stroll, but a whole lot a bunch of darkspawn, leaders of countries will panic thinking it's a Blight and might try to conscript people to fight them, forcing them to take the joining or finding volunteers. But that's too bad because those darkspawn just decided to go rampaging in great number.

Now, those noobish Grey Warden will be discarded because it was a false alarm. Better send them to the Deep Roads, everyone knows Grey Wardens are nothing but trouble.

 

But then a Blight happens. Who the heck knows there's a Blight if there are no Grey Wardens to sense it. People's reaction might be the same as in DA:O "Nah, those are just too many darkspawn. I seen no dragon." And by the time they figure out what's going on, they make randoms Grey Wardens who are too raw to get their **** together in time. You'll have a bunch of noobs in a panic because of nightmares and whatnot with no one to guide them through.

 

I say, the first Warden back at Weisshaupt should mind his own darkspawn business and stop playing politics. Someone ought to get rid of that guy playing pretend.

[Serza]

Create yourself a "Socienty for p*ssing off", thank you very much, you filthy hater.

 

Bam!

Serza uses "Go Nuclear"! It's very effective!

[ComedicSociopathy]

One of the strengths of the Grey Wardens is the fact that their apolitical and are willing to assist in any nation in Thedas if a Blight erupts within it. The same can't be said about the armed forces of kingdoms like Orlais, Feledren or Tevinter, who would be completely content on allowing an Archdemon to go on it's merry way destroying their rivals for them. We've seen this exact thing happen during the Second, Third and Fourth Blights, and chances are that even if all of Thedas knew the secret of becoming a Warden they wouldn't do anything with that knowledge in terms of combining the forces of their blighted warriors and realizing that their stupid rivalries and grudges don't mean jack in the face of a Blight that threatens them all with mutual extinction.

 

The Grey Wardens, or at the very least a similar global organization like them, needs to exist as a neutral rallying force. Without them, the Archdemon just needs to pick off one nation at a time until all of Thedas beings to look like the Western Approach. 

[Serza]

One of the strengths of the Grey Wardens is the fact that their apolitical and are willing to assist in any nation in Thedas if a Blight erupts within it. The same can't be said about the armed forces of kingdoms like Orlais, Feledren or Tevinter, who would be completely content on allowing an Archdemon to go on it's merry way destroying their rivals for them. We've seen this exact thing happen during the Second, Third and Fourth Blights, and chances are that even if all of Thedas knew the secret of becoming a Warden they wouldn't do anything with that knowledge in terms of combining the forces of their blighted warriors and realizing that their stupid rivalries and grudges don't mean jack in the face of a Blight that threatens them all with mutual extinction.

 

The Grey Wardens, or at the very least a similar global organization like them, needs to exist as a neutral rallying force. Without them, the Archdemon just needs to pick off one nation at a time until all of Thedas beings to look like the Western Approach. 

 

I agree.

You need a group of people who can waltz up, say "Armies or GTFO", get what they want, scoff at the notion of politics, and go on saving the world.

 

Wait, I just said "You need the Wardens", just in a very fancy way.

[Br3admax]

That's actually not true. Everyone is legally required to combat Blights. Those treaties bind everyone and every living thing in Thedas to combat the archdemon. You can give the Wardens credit for that, but as of now, no one can just sit things out.

[ctd757]

I'm always cool with the Wardens do I think they do stupid things of course but they aren't that bad. The Demon Army idea was extremely bad but I played as a Warden and we all know the Darkspawn aren't going away. It's too much going on in the world to think another Archdemon is too far off.

[Zetrial]

That's actually not true. Everyone is legally required to combat Blights. Those treaties bind everyone and every living thing in Thedas to combat the archdemon. You can give the Wardens credit for that, but as of now, no one can just sit things out.

 

It binds them to the Wardens though, not to each other, even if every nation did decide to assist a single nation with a blight with zero self interest there would also be the usual power struggle as to whom has command.

Oh I brought more troops

My troops have more experience

I donated more gold to this allince

This is my land

And so on, at least with the Wardens it is a simple, they lead and command, we follow.

[TheLastArchivist]

Duncan greatly disapproves.

 

Alistair greatly disapproves.

[TheLastArchivist]

The next time the Archdemon comes knocking on your door, don't come crawling to one of our Wardens begging for help.

 

Go kill him yourself, you ungrateful, miserable *mumble mumble*

[SgtSteel91]

Or you could ally with them, inspire them to be the heroes people believe them be, in which case they come out of the shadows and leave the cloak and dagger stuff the Wardens in the Anders use (even possible breaking off from the Northern Wardens). Start a revolution where the Warden's creed isn't 'kill Darkspawn at all costs' but 'protect others, even at the cost of your own life.'

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

 The Blights prove the necessity of blighted/tainted warriors during a blight. They do not prove the necessity of the Grey Warden order. The Grey Wardens save the world courtesy information they withhold and conceal from everyone (which may have allowed for more deaths during the blights rather than less) and use their savior status to justify running amok in all of the time between blights.

 

... In a way, they kind of remind me of a charming paramilitary group with a prolific track record from the Mass Effect series...

 

Griffons are extinct (don't!), and now, the Wardens should follow their mascot. This is a society for those of us who wisely choose to sacrifice our Grey Warden ally in the Fade and then banish the rest of them back to their little hole in the Anderfels in disgrace. As per the epilogue, this likely spells the end of them.

 

 

> But what will we do about the next blights??

> Same thing we've always done: end it with some blighted/tainted warriors. Only this time, we will not create an inept and unaccountable organization out of it that is built by the Right of Conscription (or, in less fancy terms: scraping the bottom of the barrel). Instead, they will be an arm/branch of a nation's military and will be ready to roll during the blight or any Darkspawn incursion that threatens their lands. It can also be used as an alternative form of punishment to things like costly prisons or crude execution.

 

> But how will the world uncover their secrets?

> Quite easily. No one will exist to defend them, making their top-secret info and classified documents ripe for the picking from spies and such. And, if any Wardens exist who know the essential information and possess any semblance of honor, they will see no point in keeping the secrets with their order going defunct and will make some effort to inform those who should be aware of them. Yeah, Option 1 remains the better bet.

 

Show your support for this noble endeavor!! 

 

I'm with you.

 

I never understood the support people on these forums have for the wardens. A group of thugs, criminals and exiles who hide vital knowledge about the blight in order to justify their own self-importance. Thedas has a new protector in the form of the inquisition, the warden are no longer needed.

 

Let the wardens burn. And let their destruction serve as a reminder for those who would try to defy the inquisition.

[Dragonzzilla]

They're already forsaken in their corner of the world.

[MoonDrummer]

God king Oghren is a grey warden. It will be difficult for you to disband them with an axe inbetween your eyes.

Innit

[AresKeith]

@OP No

Grey Wardens/Night Watch 4 lyfe

[TheLastArchivist]

After Alistair tells us the HoF traveled deep into the West (Anderfels) after hearing a rumour and that exiled Wardens epilogue (Wardens divorce themselves of Weisshaupt), it's more likely the Wardens will destroy themselves.

 

The Order is already crumbling and may have disappeared by the time DA 4 is released.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Some knowledge needs to remain secret and that is one of them. It's not a smart move to tell a bunch of people full of religious zealotry and centuries old fear of magic and blood magic in particular that blood magic is needed.  You act like the people of Thedas will be totally accepting and/or nobles and rulers wouldn't totally try to figure out a way to horde that knowledge and resources for themselves. 

 

You mean like Phylacteries? Which every White Chantry nation uses?

 

It's too late to worry about knowledge/resources being abused/corrupted, because that's precisely what the Grey Wardens are doing with it. With the Right of Conscription, they free dangerous criminals and apostates like Avernus and Anders. They claim political neutrality but **** with politics nonetheless. Good people die unnecessarily when the Joining kills them, and this practice takes place even when there is no Blight. And they justify it all by telling people that they're heroes and that the people need them, hence the "we need them"-mentality that can be seen ITT.

 

This is just impractical. Political situations are too mutable, and have too much effect on any national military, to give the new system you propose any longevity. 

 

What's impractical is putting all your eggs in the one basket that is the Grey Warden order. What if something happens to them as it did in Fereldan? Until Maric, they were in exile from the country. If not for him, they would not have been available to save Fereldan in the first place. If not for Flemeth, they would not have had the treaties they needed to gather support. That they recovered them at all was luck, of the dumb variety. And then the almost all died in one single battle, largely because the field general did not understand their value. In the end, everyone lucked out and the Blight ended uncharacteristically early only due to the plot demanding it.

 

If you leak the Wardens' secrets to nations for them to decide what to do with it, you've got a better chance.

 

Some may ignore. Some may abuse. Yet others will keep and use it as intended.

[Lulupab]

Grey wardens can sense the darkspawn and kinda receive the order from hive mind like the darkspawn do. They can anticipate raids, track movement etc... Also they are immune to the taint so they would fight Darkspawn better than anyone. Anderfels survives as a nation because of wardens. Darkspawm raids are a norm and while the tarts at the capital call themselves "the most pious on Thedas" Wardens protect the whole nation except the capital from darkspawn because they can sense the raids before happening and go there to save them. Some believe wardens are actual rulers of Anderfels and not the royalty in the capital.

 

Either way Wardens are needed as long as Darkspawn exist. Its something that all of us need to deal with. The systems mentioned here will fall short in comparison to what having an organization of wardens can do. No one can safely patrol the deep roads but the wardens for example.

[AtreiyaN7]

I'm with you.

 

I never understood the support people on these forums have for the wardens. A group of thugs, criminals and exiles who hide vital knowledge about the blight in order to justify their own self-importance. Thedas has a new protector in the form of the inquisition, the warden are no longer needed.

 

Let the wardens burn. And let their destruction serve as a reminder for those who would try to defy the inquisition.

 

Because the very first Wardens were all thugs and criminals, right? And because there's absolutely no one with honor around like Ser Stroud or anything.... *rolleyes + sarcasm to the infinite power*