256 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

I don't really see why not. The libido thing is easily "taken care of" in one way or another, that's not a real issue, if through random sex between people that need their itch scratched, or the use of chemicals. And yeah, it's canon that there is a lot of mind-washing and mind-rape under the Qun, that's not really new and was seen after DA:O.

 

And where are these chemicals that stop the libido in the DA setting? Because I haven't heard of any. Also again random sex was said to be something not practiced. But that being retconned is fine?

 

No society can sustain itself simply on the brainless laborers that chemical produces. They'd be hemorrhaging more people than they already are. My point is the brainwashing would be a last resort. If they threw a fit about every slight deviance it'd simply be inefficient.

 

Children have to play that's what kids do. That's how they learn. According to DAO qun...children don't play. 

[justafan]

My theory is that while the Qun does allow you to be of the gender you identify with, in practice this is very rarely seen to anyone born into the Qun.  Consider that Qunari born in the homeland have no family, arguably no love, their roles assigned before puberty, and a very active thought police.  With all these factors, even if a child is transgendered, they would be conditioned their entire lives by their caretakers into accepting what role they are assigned before they were old enough to properly articulate their identity.  That volunteering to go to the thought police for reeducation is apparently not stigmatized, it is far more likely that transgendered people born in the Qun would choose this option then fight the system.

 

Converts on the other hand have not had this conditioning, so are placed where they are most useful to Qunari society.  It seems that according to the Qun, a "man" doesn't necessarily need man-parts, only that they think and act like a man, hence the acceptance of Krem.  This would explain why Sten, a native Qunari is so confused, while Bull is more knowledgable about the subject having been in Thedas for far longer.

[leaguer of one]

I don't see how people found DAO's Qun something that was going to stay they way it was.

 

It was completely implausible. The only way it could've functioned was if Qunari were massively mentally and physically different from every single race in Thedas. (Little to no libido, easily brainwashed, etc.) they aren't.

Ummm.....The issue of sex with the qun is not what you think. Everyone has sex but must requested first. It's done in a way to get out of the way to get to work then repressed.

[Ryzaki]

Ummm.....The issue of sex with the qun is not what you think. Everyone has sex but must requested first. It's done in a way to get out of the way to get to work then repressed.

 

That wasn't the case in DAO which is my point with everyone treating Sten's word as freaking gospel.

 

I already admitted it was a change. I simply feel it's not really that much of a complain fest considering all the other changes Qunari have gone through not the least their change from giants to oxmen.

[leaguer of one]

And where are these chemicals that stop the libido in the DA setting? Because I haven't heard of any. Also again random sex was said to be something not practiced. But that being retconned is fine?

 

No society can sustain itself simply on the brainless laborers that chemical produces. They'd be hemorrhaging more people than they already are. My point is the brainwashing would be a last resort. If they threw a fit about every slight deviance it'd simply be inefficient.

 

Children have to play that's what kids do. That's how they learn. According to DAO qun...children don't play. 

But it's not random sex. You're missing a few thing.

1. Men and woman are divided from one another so that means any unorganized sex would happen with the same sex. 

2. They have a processes of reliving sexual tension. They just have a random man and woman meet up when they request sex.

[leaguer of one]

That wasn't the case in DAO which is my point with everyone treating Sten's word as freaking gospel.

 

I already admitted it was a change. I simply feel it's not really that much of a complain fest considering all the other changes Qunari have gone through not the least their change from giants to oxmen.

Not at all. Sten only stated that sex was not random. He never said they did not have sex. It not a retcon just you miss understanding.

[frankf43]

You mean like the memories of life in the Qun and life out of the Qun have begun to blur together in his mind? That would be a pretty neat story element actually. 

 

I think the amount of seriously strong alcohol he drinks might have a large impact on his memory as well.  All things seem better through the bottom of a glass.

[leaguer of one]

It would have been so much more interesting to have Iron Bull be in denial (or even lingering brainwashing effects) about how great the Qun is and how it would treat his friend with decency and respect instead of forcing him into the role of "woman" and making him a baker or shopkeeper and forcing him to give birth than suddenly portraying the Qun as modern, accepting, and laid back.

 

In previous games we were told women can never be warriors: Sten can see that your female warden has a female body but doesn't say "oh you must be an aqun athlok" he flat out denies any possibility that female and warrior can go together.

Leliana: Do you mean your people have no female mages or warriors?
Sten: Of course not. Why would our women wish to be men?

 

The Qunari brainwash you if you falter from their plan, control who you have children with and force you into sex and pregnancy no matter what you want, they also steal your children away after birth and if you have sex for love you can look forward to even more brainwashing. They keep mages in torturous conditions with their minds so broken that they can't even live on their own without someone controlling their every action. You're a cog in the machine and if you're slightly out of alignment they hammer you back into place.

 

With the way Iron Bull tells it however: there are crazy orgies with the Tamassrans whenever you want, they seem to act as prostitutes for the horny. (as long as you don't love them it's ok...?) You want to change genders? Sure, the Qun is totally ok with that! (just don't try to have a different job than the one they assign you) Solas, Dorian, and Vivienne would do poorly under the Qun because of their attitudes, oh those silly guys. (no mention of the fact that if they weren't killed immediately after the war for being mages, they'd have their eyes and mouths sewn shut and be grafted into a metal contraption that makes "the man in the iron mask" look merciful)

 

The Qun was interesting because it was so totalitarian and unpalatable BUT when seen from the perspective of someone who had no chance such as a former elven slave from Tevinter or the two elves in Kirkwall who killed a guard for raping their sister it's a definite step up. Now it's "hey guys we're just like you except we pick your job for you and do some inconsistent things that don't make sense from any perspective."

Wait...but the qun is qai is still a unpalatable and totalitarian.

[Ryzaki]

Not at all. Sten only stated that sex was not random. He never said they did not have sex. It not a retcon just you miss understanding.

 

They obviously have sex to reproduce.

 

No one said anything about having sex to get their rocks off. Given the fact that Sten describes it as unpleasant one would come to the exact opposite conclusion. (we're taking his word as gospel on all things Qun right?)

 

But it's not random sex. You're missing a few thing.

1. Men and woman are divided from one another so that means any unorganized sex would happen with the same sex. 

2. They have a processes of reliving sexual tension. They just have a random man and woman meet up when they request sex.

 

2. Wasn't even brought up until DAI.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The them having sex clinics is another thing that was retconned in my opinion. It was talked about how sex was only for procreation, since why would the Qun who is all about not wasting anything waste seed on casual hookups, yet now are the most open about casual sex of the races in Thedas. Unless they explain that what The Iron Bull thinks was a sex clinic was actually part of the breeding program, that is a retcon. 

[leaguer of one]

They obviously have sex to reproduce.

 

No one said anything about having sex to get their rocks off. Given the fact that Sten describes it as unpleasant one would come to the exact opposite conclusion. (we're taking his word as gospel on all things Qun right?)

 

 

2. Wasn't even brought up until DAI.

1. You don't understand that they can do both?  How many Tasserans and female qunari are using protection when doing this? It can easily be both. It does not have to be one or the other. Added with the fact that the father has nothing to do with the  child under the laws of the qun.

 

2.The was brought up in dao and da2. Seriously, did you not listen when the branched of the qun were stated.

[leaguer of one]

The them having sex clinics is another thing that was retconned in my opinion. It was talked about how sex was only for procreation, since why would the Qun who is all about not wasting anything waste seed on casual hookups, yet now are the most open about casual sex of the races in Thedas. Unless they explain that what The Iron Bull thinks was a sex clinic was actually part of the breeding program, that is a retcon. 

Seriously, no one can understand it can be both?

 

How can it not be also part of the breeding program?

[Ryzaki]

1. You don't understand that they can do both?  How many Tasserans and female qunari are using protection when doing this? It can easily be both. It does not have to be one or the other. Added with the fact that the father has nothing to do with the  child under the laws of the qun.

 

2.The was brought up in dao and da2. Seriously, did you not listen when the branched of the qun were stated.

 

I understand how they can do both. I'm saying how it's quite possible it was only one of those. Neither will the mother if you want to get technical.

 

No it wasn't. But if you'd care to link it so I can eat crow go ahead.

[leaguer of one]

I understand how they can do both. I'm saying how it's quite possible it was only one of those. Neither will the mother if you want to get technical.

 

No it wasn't. But if you'd care to link it so I can eat crow go ahead.

1.Dude, it's going to be both. It's easy to see it's both. I mean how many of the woman even use protection?

 

2. Be a woman in dao and read the lore on in da2 and it's clear.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Seriously, no one can understand it can be both?

 

How can it not be also part of the breeding program?

The fact that The Iron Bull, as part of the priesthood, should know that it is part of the program yet doesn't think of it as anything more than a sex clinic. 

[Ryzaki]

1.Dude, it's going to be both. It's easy to see it's both. I mean how many of the woman even use protection?

 

2. Be a woman in dao and read the lore on in da2 and it's clear.

 

People don't magically become pregnant on the first try without protection. (not unless they're lucky...or unlucky in some occasions). It also depends on fertility rates. Again Sten (who's word we're taking as freaking gospel) describes the act as unpleasant.

 

Why would a brothel experience (one for popping one's cork anyway) be unpleasant?

 

I was a woman in DAO he said diddly squat about relieving sexual tension. Again please link this because I'm utterly baffled as to wtf you're talking about.

[leaguer of one]

The fact that The Iron Bull, as part of the priesthood, should know that it is part of the program yet doesn't think of it as anything more than a sex clinic. 

And point to me were it's stated the woman use protection and don't get pregnant. Sorry, it's both. The qunari waste nothing.

[Nefla]

Seriously, no one can understand it can be both?

 

How can it not be also part of the breeding program?

They breed to refine traits. If a male Qunari randomly wants to get laid then there's no guarantee that a female with compatible traits who isn't already pregnant would be available at that exact moment. Selective breeding would require planning.

[Ryzaki]

They breed to refine traits. If a male Qunari randomly wants to get laid then there's no guarantee that a female with compatible traits who isn't already pregnant would be available at that exact moment. Selective breeding would require planning.

 

Oh crap I forgot about that.

 

XD thanks for reminding me.

[leaguer of one]

People don't magically become pregnant on the first try without protection. (not unless they're lucky...or unlucky in some occasions). It also depends on fertility rates. Again Sten (who's word we're taking as freaking gospel) describes the act as unpleasant.

 

Why would a brothel experience (one for popping one's cork anyway) be unpleasant?

 

I was a woman in DAO he said diddly squat about relieving sexual tension. Again please link this because I'm utterly baffled as to wtf you're talking about.

1.It happens alot often then you think and it can be made easier by having the female qunari be ovulating. And every sexual encounter has a change if it unprotected sex. So it's both.

 

And with Sten he is all about self control.  Would relaving sexual tension remind him of a lack of self control?

 

2. Not about sexual tension. I mean about men and woman living seperatly.

[Laughing_Man]

I was a woman in DAO he said diddly squat about relieving sexual tension. Again please link this because I'm utterly baffled as to wtf you're talking about.

 

The fact that Sten did not say something does not necessarily mean that it didn't exist. What's worst is when something is stated clearly and is summarily ignored.

 

"Sex clinics" or even random sex to relieve an itch make a certain amount of sense under the Qun, it's just something to take care of so you can be more effective at your role. Is it a retcon? Maybe, but at least it makes sense according to what we know about the Qun. (Indeed, it would have been less of a retcon if this "relieving tension" thing was to be done as part of the breeding program)

[leaguer of one]

They breed to refine traits. If a male Qunari randomly wants to get laid then there's no guarantee that a female with compatible traits who isn't already pregnant would be available at that exact moment. Selective breeding would require planning.

First of all who said it was random.

 

Who says they pick who they mate with?

[Nefla]

First of all who said it was random.

 

Who says they pick who they mate with?

Iron Bull says the Tamassrans choose who they breed with and refine traits in them like dogs, and unless you think male Qunari only get aroused at the prospect of impregnating a compatible female at the correct time then yes it's random.

[Ryzaki]

1.It happens alot often then you think and it can be made easier by having the female qunari be ovulating. And every sexual encounter has a change if it unprotected sex. So it's both.

 

And with Sten he is all about self control.  Would relaving sexual tension remind him of a lack of self control?

 

2. Not about sexual tension. I mean about men and woman living seperatly.

 

It's also seems to happen a lot less often than you think particularly from one night stands. No crap every sexual encounter with fertile people has a chance to result in pregancy. So does protected sex with two fertile people.

 

This is the one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. You think people with self control can't enjoy relieving sexual tension? Are you serious right now?

 

I know men and women lived separately? That wasn't in question.

[leaguer of one]

Iron Bull says the Tamassrans choose who they breed with and refine traits in them like dogs, and unless you think male Qunari only get aroused at the prospect of impregnating a compatible female at the correct time then yes it's random.

Yes. And bull never said the sex clinic was random sex with random female qunari. He makes the request and the tassarins pick who he sleeps with, which could mean with someone from the Arigena or Ariqun.

 

The fact he has to make a request for it alone mean it's not random. They pick who he sleeps with.