43 réponses à ce sujet

[UnearthlyCheese]

Just upgraded my Lego last night (first time, still newb).

I picked up a bunch of useless skills like Shield Bash and Lunge & Slash (sorry, not useless, but not effective for tanking...although, upgraded shield bash is pretty fun to mess around with), but by the time I hit 20, I was using:

Warcry
Walking Fortress
Shield wall
Unbound

While I found myself doing much better than with the other skills, I was getting frustrated with SW, and Unbound seemed a little glitchy (not generating as much Gaurd as I thought it would).

Going forward, I plan to get WF, WC, CS, and PS...along with many more passives (wasted 3-4 points on abilities + upgrades).

Just started threatening the other day, but am already itching to get into perilous (after some more promos and better gear of course).

Learned a lot from this thread and a few others. Thanks for all the advice everyone!!

[Rolenka]

This thread makes me really unhappy that we are forced to take certain actives to get to others and that we start with two of them.

 

MEPMP's lateral progression was better in that regard, and we had respec if we wanted to dump a starting ability.

 

One answer might be buffing the starting actives that don't perform well at high-level play, since I don't really see the progression system changing fundamentally.

[Aegore]

This thread makes me really unhappy that we are forced to take certain actives to get to others and that we start with two of them.

 

MEPMP's lateral progression was better in that regard, and we had respec if we wanted to dump a starting ability.

 

One answer might be buffing the starting actives that don't perform well at high-level play, since I don't really see the progression system changing fundamentally.

 

You're not forced to use the actives you don't like and there is many different ones to choose from. Simply set your character up the way you feel is the best for your playstyle.

[Rolenka]

You're not forced to use the actives you don't like and there is many different ones to choose from. Simply set your character up the way you feel is the best for your playstyle.

 

Of course this is true. It remains though that those points are wasted.

 

Perhaps there should be passive bonuses to taking them, as well. Then it wouldn't be a totally unused ability point.

[UnearthlyCheese]

Of course this is true. It remains though that those points are wasted.

Perhaps there should be passive bonuses to taking them, as well. Then it wouldn't be a totally unused ability point.

They're not really "wasted points"...more like two free abilities.

A char levels from 1-20, which equates to 19 points to spend (since we don't start at lvl 0). You can put those 19 points where ever you want.

Unless my math is absolutely terrible (could be lol), a level 20 character should have 21 points spent. 19 from levelling, plus the two free starters.

Unless you are proposing starting at level 0 (or levelling to 21), or asking BW for a complete rework of all talent trees (sounds more like a new game to me), I don't see how there's much to complain about as far as point allocation.

[Torkelight]

I have a build I easily tank with on Perilous without taking damage

 

Payback strike

War Cry (guard generator & aoe taunt)

Walking Fortress (guard generator)

Counterstrike (guard generator)

 

I wouldnt call it easy really, as perilous is quite punishing for those who havent done many runs on it. This is probably the best build though, or maybe even the only build you can run on perilous, that lets you tank everything without barrier. I run it myself except that I use to the death instead of payback strike. Im swapping them out for the next build just to see if PB-strike decreases my WF-CD a bit more. I presume it will. I have grown to love to the death though, and would recommend giving it a go. You can practically generate endless guard with that skill if used right. And you and your whole group do a lot more damage to the target of your choosing.

 

This build really is the "once, I held a group of darkspawn for two days"-build.

[BeardyMcGoo]

This thread makes me really unhappy that we are forced to take certain actives to get to others and that we start with two of them.

 

MEPMP's lateral progression was better in that regard, and we had respec if we wanted to dump a starting ability.

 

One answer might be buffing the starting actives that don't perform well at high-level play, since I don't really see the progression system changing fundamentally.

I agree about the dislike of having to take certain actives to get to passives. For example: I don't want to put a point into warhorn on the reaver in order to get to the flow of battle. I feel it's a wasted point that could be better served in a passive. I realize warhorn synergizes nicely with the deathblow passive (and therefore, flow of battle) but it doesn't suit my playstyle.

[Aegore]

I wouldnt call it easy really, as perilous is quite punishing for those who havent done many runs on it. This is probably the best build though, or maybe even the only build you can run on perilous, that lets you tank everything without barrier. I run it myself except that I use to the death instead of payback strike. Im swapping them out for the next build just to see if PB-strike decreases my WF-CD a bit more. I presume it will. I have grown to love to the death though, and would recommend giving it a go. You can practically generate endless guard with that skill if used right. And you and your whole group do a lot more damage to the target of your choosing.

 

This build really is the "once, I held a group of darkspawn for two days"-build.

 

Yea but Payback Strike is 600% (720% if you use berserk affix) weapon damage every 8 seconds... Also a aoe stun + knockback.  

 

I haven't tried TTD yet but I might try it sometime. I was hesitant trying it because of a few reasons:

 

1. I like having an attack I can use other than auto-attack to boost my damage output (keep aggro) as well as help with crowd control. 

2. I wasn't sure how I felt about adding another 32 second cooldown skill that makes me wait 5 seconds before I can increase my weapon damage output by 25% against a target...

3. Infinite guard seems nice but I already accomplish that quite well with WC, WF and CS.

 

Payback Strike is nice too because it can knock/stun everyone around me so it gives me time for my other cooldowns to go down. Also in the 32 seconds it takes TTD to be able to be reactivated again I could have used Payback Strike 4 times dealing at most 2880% weapon damage. lol

[phoenix fang55]

Got my lego to 19 today, tried out a few things and was amazed, had a group, they had two templars, the templars were hanging on my hip, letting me take all the aggro, and just pumping me up with blessed blades and stunning things, I think in the one match the best they managed was to get up to half guard. I was taking damage, but I also was playing fairly reckless and I don't have that much crit chance yet, but I never once went down. For right now I'm sold on WF, WC, CS, and PS. Payback strike just feels right as you're relying on guard and invulnerability to keep you alive while constantly wailing on stuff and it just helps you wail on stuff more, not to mention makes your guard last a little longer as you knock stuff down.

[Saboteur-6]

shield wall is needed on templar imo as you're not really playing her as a tank, more a mob destroyer. she can't abuse guard and invincibility like legionnaire and so can't take too much aggro so the shield wall helps a lot when fighting the stragglers from your combo or anyone immune to it. Once you got your combo off, there isn't usually many enemies left anyway, so you can get away with abusing shield wall.

 

Yeah Shield Wall is pretty critical in my opinion for either of the popular Templar builds.

[phoenix fang55]

Yeah Shield Wall is pretty critical in my opinion for either of the popular Templar builds.

Sadly, I'm rebuilding my templar, the build I had was really good for team play, but since I play with pugs.... well to say the least, I'm sick of seeing mages and arches run past my nicely set up chokepoint. So good bye line in the sand and hello spell purge for combo.

[Torkelight]

Yea but Payback Strike is 600% (720% if you use berserk affix) weapon damage every 8 seconds... Also a aoe stun + knockback.  
 
I haven't tried TTD yet but I might try it sometime. I was hesitant trying it because of a few reasons:
 
1. I like having an attack I can use other than auto-attack to boost my damage output (keep aggro) as well as help with crowd control. 
2. I wasn't sure how I felt about adding another 32 second cooldown skill that makes me wait 5 seconds before I can increase my weapon damage output by 25% against a target...
3. Infinite guard seems nice but I already accomplish that quite well with WC, WF and CS.
 
Payback Strike is nice too because it can knock/stun everyone around me so it gives me time for my other cooldowns to go down. Also in the 32 seconds it takes TTD to be able to be reactivated again I could have used Payback Strike 4 times dealing at most 2880% weapon damage. lol

Sure. All the reasons why im going to use it in my next build. Ive used it before but after i started running perilous i have opted for to the death. While it generates guatd it also buffs the damage for the whole party. Also, the cd is never full time, but so neither is payback strike. Main reason for me to choose PB-strike is the knockdown and the possibility of several crits with one hit. Im not to concerned about damage with my caliban, 10% damage per enemy within 8 m (caliban and shield), and about 40% chance of crit.

[Torkelight]

Yeah Shield Wall is pretty critical in my opinion for either of the popular Templar builds.

As discussed before, shield wall is great for routine and threatening, but it really does not work on perilous. You will possibly only be able to block half a hit maybe. Against larger mobs that hit harder, it wont work at all. At that point, all your stamina is gone and probably half your health. Anyway, I dont play templar much so what do with them on perilous, I wouldnt know - but the wrath + purge combo is probably mandatory still.

 

Thats atleast my experience.

[SLooPPy JOE]

As discussed before, shield wall is great for routine and threatening, but it really does not work on perilous. You will possibly only be able to block half a hit maybe. Against larger mobs that hit harder, it wont work at all. At that point, all your stamina is gone and probably half your health. Anyway, I dont play templar much so what do with them on perilous, I wouldnt know - but the wrath + purge combo is probably mandatory still.

Thats atleast my experience.

Using my templar build:
Unbowed
Wrath of Heaven
Spell Purge
Shield Wall

I've had a very different experience with shield wall than it sounds like you have. Typically I run into the thickest group, combo -> unbowed, and at that point I have full guard and low stamina so I'll start hitting stuff. At this point there could be archers at a distance or a stun immune enemy like a brute that survived the combo. Shield wall handles both of these quite well, since archers don't take much stamina to block.

[Torkelight]

Using my templar build:
Unbowed
Wrath of Heaven
Spell Purge
Shield Wall

I've had a very different experience with shield wall than it sounds like you have. Typically I run into the thickest group, combo -> unbowed, and at that point I have full guard and low stamina so I'll start hitting stuff. At this point there could be archers at a distance or a stun immune enemy like a brute that survived the combo. Shield wall handles both of these quite well, since archers don't take much stamina to block.

 

Of course experiences differ, and also different classes have different tools to survive. If I do lego on perilous and encounter a large group of archers I probably have to pop my WF, which will cycle fine for invulnerability as I have all the aggro.

Yes, up to stage 5 SW is quite usefull against specific situations like brutes, archers etc. but with my lego I have different ways to deal with them that are more usefull and my main goal is really to sustain aggro - and shield wall wont help me do that. Until I reach stage 5 I really dont have any problems. Now, my favorite way to use shield wall on routine/threatening (apart from blocking shielded enemies, brutes and red commander ranged brutes, treasure guardians etc.) is to use it to tank hits from the commanders themselves. Venatori really isnt that much of an issue as everyone knows, but tanking the DC or red templar is a bit more tricky this way on perilous. Using sheild wall to block their attacks seemed to me quite futile (though very efficient on routine/threatening), as they usually expend all my stamina, full guard and most of my health anyway, in one or two hits even when blocking. And once that happen, and you are unlucky enough to have WF on cooldown, you are most likely dead. And thats probably why I swapped it out for "to the death" as a more reliable guard generator and just concentrate on recharging WF by hitting constantly - even though it was probably one of my favorite skills running routine and threatening.

 

Now as I've stated, I dont play much templar, atleast not on perilous (yet), but my guess would be that once facing the commanders - the shield wall wont really let you tank them efficiently, but in the instances that you mentioned it will be quite usefull, and maybe even life saving to a very high degree. But on legionnaire I dont find it needed anymore. And maybe your goal as a templar on stage 5, isnt to tank the commanders at all.

Having said all this, the question was about running it on templar, so I guess my whole argument is mute. My conclusion then is that shield wall is not really needed on lego, but might be quite usefull on templar or in fact needed. My templar build has it. But that is probably because I've in the past felt naked without it on both templar and lego.

 

Was there a reason to ponder this much on the subject? Probably not, as you already had the answer. I do like to ponder though..

 

FYI My current lego build is Counterstrike, to the death, WF and war cry. I will swap ttD out with Payback strike on my next build, just as your build on the other post has. Not that its any new though, as it's probably been played that way for quite a while now.

 

Also, which items do you use?

I use CD amulet, 2x 10% crit chance rings and caliban (bonus cunning, 16% heal and 5% damage per enemy) and dwarven proven shield (bonus cunning and 5% damage per enemy). Not sure about my armor upgrades but I'm pretty sure they matter little.

[phoenix fang55]

While this topic has helped a lot, and I know in the future I'll be building the super tanky version of the Lego, I think my next build is just going to be a fun, for the hell of it build.

 

I just, for the hell of it, want to try a Dps/striker Legionnaire

 

And this is what I was thinking

 

http://da-skills.net...1,00100,010,1,0

 

I half doubt it'll be perilous quality, but I just got Caliban, so what the hell.

[Drasca]

While this topic has helped a lot, and I know in the future I'll be building the super tanky version of the Lego, I think my next build is just going to be a fun, for the hell of it build.

 

I just, for the hell of it, want to try a Dps/striker Legionnaire

 

And this is what I was thinking

 

http://da-skills.net...1,00100,010,1,0

 

I half doubt it'll be perilous quality, but I just got Caliban, so what the hell.

 

Yeah shield bash is unnecessary as you have L&S to detonate with, and PBS is free, does more damage and debuffs you from CC, and you're one away from CS, which is superior to WC in almost all ways.

 

But still. WTH, you're a lego /w WF so... LEEEROYYY JENKINS!!!

[phoenix fang55]

Yeah shield bash is unnecessary as you have L&S to detonate with, and PBS is free, does more damage and debuffs you from CC, and you're one away from CS, which is superior to WC in almost all ways.

 

But still. WTH, you're a lego /w WF so... LEEEROYYY JENKINS!!!

I'm mostly taking because I haven't tried it out yet and I want to bash something's face in, and with two of them you could chain combo's!!!!!

[Drasca]

I'm mostly taking because I haven't tried it out yet and I want to bash something's face in, and with two of them you could chain combo's!!!!!

 

Usually I have L&S non-stop if you L&S from a distance, so chaining is not an issue for me. Bashing is always fun, but I usually test abilities out via SP's tactician's amulet / save game reloading.