169 réponses à ce sujet

[Uhh.. Jonah]

So if I had an identlical evil twin that had sex with people I would have to be offended because my twin looks like me? Its not rape and I think it diminshes REAL rape when someone forces themself on someone else sexually.

No, the situation is more like someone taking on your likeness and using it sexually to get what they want. And I don't think Gaider said that it WAS rape. I don't know, I can see the problem there, and I don't see how that certain aspect could have strengthened or weakened the quest. Personally, I wouldn't be offended, but I'd feel like it'd be a cheap move and wouldn't think much of it. Now when Cullen got his throat slashed? That made me cringe.

[Zatche]

Its a dream where a demon is trying to manipulate you, you can bet that what ever it gets up to would probably be unethical. By that standard we should strike broodmothers from the lore. Because I'm pretty sure Darkspawn don't ask for consent before kidnapping women and force-feeding them the taint-infested remains of other people [who they probably knew to boot]. 

 

Well, I think the difference here is that with the broodmothers, it really serves a purpose to the story. It heightens the stakes, reminding just how threatening and disgusting the Darkspawn are. And it characterizes Branka by showing what lines she is willing to cross to get to the Anvil of the Void. It makes you disgusted with her as a person. In this way, it ties into the "Paragon of Her Kind" plot fairly well. 

 

Here, Envy seducing the player doesn't really make much sense. Envy wants to find out about and be the Inquisitor, not be with the Inquisitor. Adding a creepy sexual twist to it would disturb the player, but that it is disturbing would distract from how they actually wanted to characterize Envy.

[SurelyForth]

So if I had an identlical evil twin that had sex with people I would have to be offended because my twin looks like me? Its not rape and I think it diminshes REAL rape when someone forces themself on someone else sexually. 

 

If they were pretending to be you, you would very much have the right to be offended? That's the issue here- it's not that you would look the same, it would be that your identity was being used without your consent.

 

And I never said it was rape but, since you decided to drag that strawman out, you know what actually does diminish rape? Using sexual violence and "gray area" scenarios like this one to make your movie/book/television show/video game seem dark and edgy. It's not necessary and, again, if you think it is, you deserve to be disappointed. 

 

Re: Broodmothers- Broodmothers are horrible as **** and I know a lot of people who are extremely uncomfortable with them. That they exist in the lore is...not a reason to not play the games. However, it's also one of those things that should be used sparingly because, after a while, stuff like that stops having any impact. There are other paths to grimdarkness, it doesn't always have to be about body horror and sexual violence (explicit or implied). 

[Ogillardetta]

No, the situation is more like someone taking on your likeness and using it sexually to get what they want. And I don't think Gaider said that it WAS rape. I don't know, I can see the problem there, and I don't see how that certain aspect could have strengthened or weakened the quest. Personally, I wouldn't be offended, but I'd feel like it'd be a cheap move and wouldn't think much of it. Now when Cullen got his throat slashed? That made me cringe.

But its still not a person who actually gets raped, while it might be disturing its not "rapey" and saying that it is is just wrong.

[Ogillardetta]

If they were pretending to be you, you would very much have the right to be offended? That's the issue here- it's not that you would look the same, it would be that your identity was being used without your consent.

 

And I never said it was rape but, since you decided to drag that strawman out, you know what actually does diminish rape? Using sexual violence and "gray area" scenarios like this one to make your movie/book/television show/video game seem dark and edgy. It's not necessary and, again, if you think it is, you deserve to be disappointed. 

 

Re: Broodmothers- Broodmothers are horrible as **** and I know a lot of people who are extremely uncomfortable with them. That they exist in the lore is...not a reason to not play the games. However, it's also one of those things that should be used sparingly because, after a while, stuff like that stops having any impact. There are other paths to grimdarkness, it doesn't always have to be about body horror and sexual violence (explicit or implied). 

I have ever said that it needs to have rape to be edgy I just said that I don't consider a demon using someones likeness as rape and I think that it is insulting to say that it is.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wot.

 

I see lots of broodmother and rape...

 

Though, seriously. Being possessed by a demon and rape are two different things. Rape is being sexually penetrated without consent... possessed by a demon (in the way that envy tries to attempt it in that particular scenario) is possessing without consent...

 

Two different things, only common denominator here is "without consent".

 

Of course, you could go on and say "mind-rape". Still, two different concepts.

Offtopic for a moment, that definition for rape needs to change. As it stands now, too many rape victims can't say they were raped. 

 

Back on topic, if the Envy Demon did anything that would constitute being called rape, it was discussed earlier as it is rape by deception. In the cut scenario, it wasn't, or at least hope it wasn't, Leliana the people who were uncomfortable with it were uncomfortable with it for being rapey but the Inquisitor themselves. 

[samb]

I like the "fool the player I to a false sense of security" and make it more and more uncanny. I don't like the sex with spymaster. From a narrative perspective, what does it really do? Was there another way to do it?
I also don't mind how it turned out in the finished game either, showing how I COULD abuse my power was a good cautionary device.

[berelinde]

I kind of wish that they kept the part of that scene where the Envy Demon tricks you into thinking that you already won.

It would have reminded me too strongly of Duncan in Fade!Weisshaupt Fortress, where Duncan tries to convince you the Blight is over and you've come home to Grey Warden HQ.

 

Also, I am really, really glad this sequence got changed. It's much better the way it is.

[XMissWooX]

I'm glad they didn't include that version in the final game.
It seems so odd to have such important consequences for the story boil down to the player's sexual preferences. You don't win because you were smarter or more perceptive or more prepared, you win because you didn't find Leiliana attractive.

[Ogillardetta]

I'm glad they didn't include that version in the final game.
It seems so odd to have such important consequences for the story boil down to the player's sexual preferences. You don't win because you were smarter or more perceptive or more prepared, you win because you didn't find Leiliana attractive.

Maybe they should have these sort of "seduction" demon plots after the player have locked in a romance so it can take the gender of the locked in romance?

[XMissWooX]

Maybe they should have these sort of "seduction" demon plots after the player have locked in a romance so it can take the gender of the locked in romance?

To be honest, I don't think even that would have worked, because it still comes down to personal preference. For example, they could have had Envy pose as Cullen and proposition you, but if you're just not into Cullen then you'd still automatically win.

[Ogillardetta]

To be honest, I don't think even that would have worked, because it still comes down to personal preference. For example, they could have had Envy pose as Cullen and proposition you, but if you're just not into Cullen then you'd still automatically win.

Then make the demon take the shape of you LI. That would be quite disturbing.

[Ryzaki]

Envy trying to seduce the PC makes me smh.

 

It's Envy.

 

It should be ripping through your memories to find out what makes you tick, badgering you with your wost memories to see how you react to stressful situations, seeing you you speak, how you walk, how you stand. (This would be even better if it got closer and closer to the protag's stance and speech patterns the longer you stayed there. And if that black blob it was became more and more visible as the character maybe first skin color, then eye color, then hair color, then face.)

 

That would've been engaging.

 

The fake Leliana wants to bone you crap makes my eyes roll out my head.

[XMissWooX]

Then make the demon take the shape of you LI. That would be quite disturbing.

But then what happens if you don't have a LI?
And remember, at this point in the game you're not able to start a romance - that only happens after you reach Skyhold.

[TheTsar_]

God damn feminazi's.. 

[Ogillardetta]

But then what happens if you don't have a LI?
And remember, at this point in the game you're not able to start a romance - that only happens after you reach Skyhold.

Then you don't get the quest. I'm not reffering to the templar quest I'm just thinking of a seduction demon quest.

[Iakus]

Envy trying to seduce the PC makes me smh.

 

It's Envy.

 

It should be ripping through your memories to find out what makes you tick, badgering you with your wost memories to see how you react to stressful situations, seeing you you speak, how you walk, how you stand. (This would be even better if it got closer and closer to the protag's stance and speech patterns the longer you stayed there. And if that black blob it was became more and more visible as the character maybe first skin color, then eye color, then hair color, then face.)

 

That would've been engaging.

 

The fake Leliana wants to bone you crap makes my eyes roll out my head.

All of this.

 

Envy's not trying to corrrupt you.

 

It's trying to become you.

[RepHope]

It would have reminded me too strongly of Duncan in Fade!Weisshaupt Fortress, where Duncan tries to convince you the Blight is over and you've come home to Grey Warden HQ.

Also, I am really, really glad this sequence got changed. It's much better the way it is.

This is different. Fade!Duncan sucked because you can tell right off you're in the Fade because of the green filter. It sounds more like in this turn of events, that damn filter wouldn't have immediately alerted the player that it was Fade-time.