102 réponses à ce sujet

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

It would be nice, but with the resurrection of Leliana I expected no less from Bioware ... I refute any argument that says for example: ''if you dont have Leliana, would not have plot.'' BioWare could well put another character in place for those who killed Leliana, and for those who did not kill, she continues. As the Architect probably come back at some important moment, I doubt that he died in fact. The explanation for the survival of this is not bad, I liked it, I hope the Architect to do the same as the Corypheus (he explodes a warden or darkspawn and emerge from his blood)

What's worse is their explanation about the resurrection of Leliana, it's basically "lol, she got better...what did you expect the majority did not kill her so we don't care about leaving it as a plot hole for the minority to keep hanging forever". I too refute those arguments as well, and BioWare could find another character to replace her. Honestly, I don't want to see BioWare uses the same treatment on the Architect as well, and I'll admit that even if he's very interesting character. I want a dead character to stay dead (in case you killed him), and instead focused on his disciples or the rest of the Magisters we haven't seen yet.

[Red of Rivia]

What's worse is their explanation about the resurrection of Leliana, it's basically "lol, she got better...what did you expect the majority did not kill her so we don't care about leaving it as a plot hole for the minority to keep hanging forever". I too refute those arguments as well, and BioWare could find another character to replace her. Honestly, I don't want to see BioWare uses the same treatment on the Architect as well, and I'll admit that even if he's very interesting character. I want a dead character to stay dead (in case you killed him), and instead focused on his disciples or the rest of the Magisters we haven't seen yet.

I also want them dead (in the case of killing them), but Bioware in my opinion fails a lot about it, the sense of choice is very weak, the Bioware respects no choice in the end.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

I also want them dead (in the case of killing them), but Bioware in my opinion fails a lot about it, the sense of choice is very weak, the Bioware respects no choice in the end.

This hurts me greatly, but as Riverdaleswhiteflash said at least we have developer assurances....here's hoping the writers won't change their mind.

[Aimi]

I refute any argument that says for example: ''if you dont have Leliana, would not have plot.'' BioWare could well put another character in place for those who killed Leliana, and for those who did not kill, she continues.

That's not a refutation, it's an assertion, and it's also not true.

Leliana's character might be relatively fungible, and her function might have been able to have been performed by a different character in the story. It's pointless to argue about whether the plot specifically called for Leliana and her experiences or just a Leliana-like character, because it's a groundless opinion either way.

What is irrefutable is that Leliana has an enormous amount of dialogue in the game, and is involved in an enormous amount of cinematic sequences. Regardless of what you think about the plot, it would have been a insane amount of extra work to do the following:

1. Write a different character to replace dead Leliana, with at least slightly different lines for many instances and a different arc
2. Record this second set of dialogue with a different VA
3. Create a different character in-game and animate him or her

Even without specific zots to be able to point to, I think that even conceptually it's very unrealistic to think about trying them.

So no, Leliana as implemented in the game was not a fungible character. A better criticism would be 'well, why give Leliana such a big role if she might be dead?'

[Red of Rivia]

That's not a refutation, it's an assertion, and it's also not true.

Leliana's character might be relatively fungible, and her function might have been able to have been performed by a different character in the story. It's pointless to argue about whether the plot specifically called for Leliana and her experiences or just a Leliana-like character, because it's a groundless opinion either way.

What is irrefutable is that Leliana has an enormous amount of dialogue in the game, and is involved in an enormous amount of cinematic sequences. Regardless of what you think about the plot, it would have been a insane amount of extra work to do the following:

1. Write a different character to replace dead Leliana, with at least slightly different lines for many instances and a different arc
2. Record this second set of dialogue with a different VA
3. Create a different character in-game and animate him or her

Even without specific zots to be able to point to, I think that even conceptually it's very unrealistic to think about trying them.

So no, Leliana as implemented in the game was not a fungible character. A better criticism would be 'well, why give Leliana such a big role if she might be dead?'

Matter of opinion, I not refuse your argument, but a character who is dead, must be dead, it's that simple. I mean, we have to accept the fact she could be alive because in a next game it will be important? If the proposal of Bioware is to give us an idea of choices and consequences, give us! and not masked with lame excuses. 

[Chari]

I honestly hope they change their minds and bring him back. He is too amazing and unique not to survive. He's been mentioned a lot lately too. Maybe a DLC? A girl can dream
I hope they go Legion/Legion 2.0 sort of way. If he survived he is pretty friendly and peaceful but if he was reborn he is just done with humanity and wants them all dead
Maybe it can also be connected to the search for cure of the Calling and HoF which might be a way of killing such body hopping things

[Fredward]

Thinking on it isn't the Architect Bioware's only villian in like... ever that isn't 1) megalomaniacally insane or 2) controlled by outside forces?

[BubbleDncr]

If the Architect had the same resurrecting powers as Corypheus...

 

Wouldn't he have possessed the Warden or one of your Awakening companions as soon as he "died?"

 

Cos...that's what Cory does. Possesses the nearest tainted living thing. So since that obviously didn't happen, I'd say if we killed him, he's dead. 

[Chari]

If the Architect had the same resurrecting powers as Corypheus...

Wouldn't he have possessed the Warden or one of your Awakening companions as soon as he "died?"

Cos...that's what Cory does. Possesses the nearest tainted living thing. So since that obviously didn't happen, I'd say if we killed him, he's dead.

There's Seranni who mysteriously disappeared after DAA. Cory didn't posses the closest tainted creature anyway, Larius and the mage were farther than Carver, Bethany or Anders

[Feranel]

1-Darkspawn
2-Intelligent.
3-Memory loss.
4-Mages.
5-Wear robes.
6-Levitation powers.
7-Claws for hands.
8-Skin stretched over clothing that hás fused with flesh.
9-Named after roles in the ritual exactly as described by the codex.
10- Control over the Blight including the Calling ( the Architect was capaple of accelerating the Taint within a Warden in the book)
11- Taller than everyone else.
12- Shoulderpads ( it must havê been all the rage in the Imperium back then)

Am I forgetting anything?

 

13. Sexy Schmecksy Voice

[Panda]

I don't think bringing the Architect back would be retcon. He just falled in battle in DA:A, you didn't check that he stays dead, you hurried to kill the Mother. He's darkspawn magister with lot of healing power and possible power to body hop.

 

Leliana's case.. well I think Bioware made big mistake in giving option to kill her in DAO. I doubt they thought when making of DAO that they would bring her back in later games and then they had to come up with excuse when they wanted to use her again.

 

Well Leliana and Corypheus aren't only one's that survive when killed, Flemeth is one as well. So bringing the Architect back wouldn't be anything shocking to me.

[KotorEffect3]

While I am all for the architect making a return in future content I would probably be more interested in running into one of the other ancient magisters,  I just find them fascinating and another one could shed more light on what exactly happened in the Golden City.

[Red of Rivia]

I could even say that the Architect could go to the body of another darkspawn or warden with blood magic, however, as it was already explained, I think it would make no sense.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

I could even say that the Architect could go to the body of another darkspawn or warden with blood magic, however, as it was already explained, I think it would make no sense.

It's not without precedent for such creatures, as has been repeatedly pointed out. Though as has also been pointed out, it would be boring for two of them to have this power.

[Daerog]

The Architect has no memory of being a magister.

 

Cory was able to remember after a while.

 

The Architect was walking around a lot longer than Cory was, since Cory was in a suspended state or something in that jail.

 

With Archie talking about how he was born differently and doesn't know why and just identifies himself as just another darkspawn, I'm guessing he did spawn from a broodmother. I'm guessing that the ancient magisters reincarnate from the blight, considering the blight is like an anti-Fade and souls can pass through it, I don't think it is a stretch to say their souls are bound to the blight in some way.

 

So, in the First Blight or whenever, Archie died, later reborn with no memory of past life but still a functional Ancient Magister Darkspawn Monster Thing. Cory was just jailed and so retains his memories...

 

At least that has always been my theory since Awakening.

[Red of Rivia]

It's not without precedent for such creatures, as has been repeatedly pointed out. Though as has also been pointed out, it would be boring for two of them to have this power.

Well, maybe the fact that they are the first darkspawn is the explanation of why their control the taint better than a Archdemon.

[Sifr]

Are there really people that think that he's just a random darkspawn?

 

After Legacy came out, there were people who insisted that Corypheus was dead...despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

So yes, I can buy that some people think that the Architect is just something akin to Unique Variant Emissary No. 5?

 

 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

This hurts me greatly, but as Riverdaleswhiteflash said at least we have developer assurances....here's hoping the writers won't change their mind.

Perhaps it's relevant to point out that, contrary to Rivia's assertions and several peoples' fears before Inquisition came out, some choices seem to be respected. If you don't do the Dark Ritual, Kieran either doesn't exist or doesn't have Urthemiel's soul. If neither Loghain nor Alistair was a living, active Grey Warden at the end of Origins, neither is resurrected/reactivated. The person(s) you put on Ferelden's throne is/are still there, barring a Cousland PC who's presumably off curing him/herself of the Calling so as to stay on it longer.

[Red of Rivia]

Perhaps it's relevant to point out that, contrary to Rivia's assertions and several peoples' fears before Inquisition came out, some choices seem to be respected. If you don't do the Dark Ritual, Kieran either doesn't exist or doesn't have Urthemiel's soul. If neither Loghain nor Alistair was a living, active Grey Warden at the end of Origins, neither is resurrected/reactivated. The person(s) you put on Ferelden's throne is still there, barring a Cousland PC who's presumably off curing him/herself of the Calling so as to stay on it longer.

In fact, you can see that Kieran will have no role.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

In fact, you can see that Kieran will have no role.

At this point, probably not. On the other hand, a goddess gets her hands on Urthemiel if you do the DR and has shown no signs of ability to do so if the Warden shuts down her (known) attempt to stop it from being destroyed. That seems like it might change things up a bit.

[Red of Rivia]

At this point, probably not. On the other hand, a goddess gets her hands on Urthemiel if you do the DR and has seen no signs of ability to do so if the Warden shuts down her (known) attempt to stop it from being destroyed. That seems like it might change things up a bit.

Do you think that will change anything? I think at most a reference or anything else, perhaps an appearance.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Do you think that will change anything? I think at most a reference or anything else, perhaps an appearance.

It's entirely possible that the Final Boss of DA4 (or whatever game or expansion Urthemiel next appears in) will be markedly different due to his either being the host of Urthemiel or not. We don't know yet. We're not going to know for sure until Urthemiel next appears. What you suggest is likely, but not certain.

[Red of Rivia]

It's entirely possible that the Final Boss of DA4 (or whatever game or expansion Urthemiel next appears in) will be markedly different due to his either being the host of Urthemiel or not. We don't know yet. We're not going to know for sure until Urthemiel next appears. What you suggest is likely, but not certain.

Like a boss would be interesting and different to perform.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Like a boss would be interesting and different to perform.

I recall Bioware pointing out that Meredith and Orsino were originally supposed to be mutually exclusive. So it's not like the idea of different choices meaning different bosses hasn't been floated before. And with the backlash from the way they wound up doing it, they might decide to not make the same mistake twice. I'm not arguing it's going to happen, just that it's not by any stretch of the imagination impossible. I am given to understand that Inquisition is a flawed product, but between the different races and the not-all-bi-LIs, it's also proof that Bioware reads these forums and tries to do what we want.

[Red of Rivia]

I recall Bioware pointing out that Meredith and Orsino were originally supposed to be mutually exclusive. So it's not like the idea of different choices meaning different bosses hasn't been floated before. And with the backlash from the way they wound up doing it, they might decide to not make the same mistake twice. I'm not arguing it's going to happen, just that it's not by any stretch of the imagination impossible.

Yes, but it would be interesting nonetheless. Remember that with this free soul somewhere, the architect can make some mention ( if it appears ) to the old god or anything.