213 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

Pretty sure that was just their flame shield for the "bring back the Warden" rage.

I do love that in doing so, they would have gotten an even bigger flamefest for giving the Warden a voice for dialogue, because let's face it, the voiced protagonist was always going to happen.

[Hazegurl]

Pretty sure that was just their flame shield for the "bring back the Warden" rage. 

So true. Now we may be stuck with these unfleshed out place card protagnists. *snooze*

[zambingo]

"Hey Hawke that Chantry sister is threatening war with the Qunari, should we do something?" "Nah I'm sure it'll be fine"
"Hey Hawke Meredith has gone nuts, is refusing the election of a new Viscount and the nobility are starting to turn against her, should we do something, make take advantage of this now that your the Champion?" "Nah, I might do something that can barely be called an effort in 3 years"
"Hey Hawke this lone templar is trying to force your sister into a circle should you do something?" "Nah, I cbf despite all our families aparent efforts to keep her out of it"
"Hey Hawke this Tallis girl has a list of all the Qunari spies in thedas, should we do something?" "Nah, despite me voicing my dislike of the Qun and saying I should kill Tallis I'll just stand here and do nothing"


Hawke would have been to busy staring into his fireplace for years on end to be the Inquisitor

LOL Love it.

I've often imagined Hawke saying, "Look, that's like just your opinion. Okay. Hey, I just want my rug back, man."

[Vicious]

The problem was that they already had a series like that in Mass Effect. You're human no matter what, you play the same character, and DA2 was poorly received. While Hawke Age may have been successful, it was likely no longer acceptable after it was decided that Dragon Age would be one of Bioware's flagship series going forward, their final fantasy so to speak. 

 

I would have been happy either way but i'm a hardcore bioware fanboi from baldur's gate/black isle days

[TinySquid]

Yes the fact that they are so obviously macho male says a lot on its own.

 

Aside from that and as a whole there are many little things:

 

The diplomat and the spymaster are females, the general is male. Cassandra balances this a bit, but her vulnerable side is a typical "girly" side. You can't be Vivienne to Bull (even if he would probably prefer it), you can't return the aggressiveness to Cullen, Morgans growth is shown through her motherhood, when you are appointed "Inquisitor" your symbol is a huge sword and you stick it to the sky,  etc. If you really sit and analyze the semantics you can pile quite a bit.

 

Writing from a gender neutral perspective is very difficult, there are very few games that do it successfully and they do it successfully because the protagonist is always a blank state and is typically the only humanoid or even the only living thing that exists in that environment.

 

 

I'm sorry... but the sword in the sky? You're using -that- as an example that this game is sexist? That... is what people sit around and laugh about because its so outrageous no rational person would ever seriously think it. Right up there with skyscrapers being a symbol of "the patriarchy" instead of sound architecture.

[Isaidlunch]

I would've liked it much better, though I wonder how they planned to handle the DA2 companions if it's true. I doubt they'd make the five LI's companions since all of them can die or disappear while swearing vengeance by the end of the game.

[Vicious]

I'm sorry... but the sword in the sky? You're using -that- as an example that this game is sexist? That... is what people sit around and laugh about because its so outrageous no rational person would ever seriously think it. Right up there with skyscrapers being a symbol of "the patriarchy" instead of sound architecture.

 

had this reaction as well

[Generic Guy]

I do recall Bioware saying they intended for each game to feature a different PC, but this was before they were bought by EA. My theory, EA saw the sales figures for Mass Effect and wanted Bioware to scrap the new protagonist for each game idea, then saw the saw the sales for DA2, and changed their minds again.

[LadyofClockwork7]

As others have said, I think it would've been cooler for Hawke's warden ally to have been the Hero of Ferelden if they were alive. 

 

The revelation of having to pick between the two of them in the Fade would've been awesome.

[KaiserShep]

As others have said, I think it would've been cooler for Hawke's warden ally to have been the Hero of Ferelden if they were alive. 

 

The revelation of having to pick between the two of them in the Fade would've been awesome.

There are two main problems I have with this.

 

First, this doesn't feel as heroic an end as I suspect the writers may have wanted to. Basically, whichever character stays behind seems to kind of go out like a chump. This is why Stroud is my canon go-to, because I don't know him, and I don't really care, and I prefer that his sacrifice be a factor in the decision I make later.

 

Second, and more importantly, I have some serious issues with the Warden being reduced to a mere fugitive of these idiots under Clarel. I mean, my Warden is close personal friends with the king of Ferelden, is the lover of my Inquisitor's spymaster, has ties in Orzammar, is responsible for the salvation of Vigil's Keep and the city of Amaranthine, and has connections to both the Antivan crows, and a former crow who would gladly slit the throats of her enemies for free. Why the hell would this character be holed up in a cave like a fool in backwater Crestwood? This character would be utterly ruined beyond repair.

[ThreeF]

I'm sorry... but the sword in the sky? You're using -that- as an example that this game is sexist? That... is what people sit around and laugh about because its so outrageous no rational person would ever seriously think it. Right up there with skyscrapers being a symbol of "the patriarchy" instead of sound architecture.

 

You really missed the point, I'm not talking about patriarchy being wrong or sexism in the game (at least not in the way you seem to mean it). I'm talking about semantics and that scene is phallic no matter how you look at it,  the concept that power is masculine is a product of our world, writer's world. 

 

My point was that things are not all that pro-feminism (from a completely factual perspective) in DA as many might think because even if the writer wanted it that way (which I'm not sure that the writer ever had this as primary goal) it is difficult to be a product of your own society and not let it slip into the story, you can only do it with a relative ease if your character's world has no need for a social structure.

[Aren]

The word you're looking for is "default".

 

A canonical protagonist is an unalterable one.

A default one is one that's used as a general placeholder in advertisement and adjunct publications with no player choice, or in a game if you don't override that version with your own.

 

The default protagonist of DAO is a female Dalish warrior

The default protagonist of DA2 is a male human mage.

 

I'd say it's balanced gender-wise.

I'm not sure that the Dalish female is the default protagonist of DAO, afterall Malcom is  the Human noble of the 2 Trailer for DAO.

Also in DAII the first default story is about a Human noble, the second one is about the female dalish.

I see the  Female Dalish with the US as protagonist of the novel not as Default.

Male mage Hawke is the Default of DAII.

Anyway   Hawke is a cameo in his/her own game now.

[Melca36]

Ya the more I think about it... the more likely there would be even greater backlash for again being a lack of races. Dragon Age Origins, the first game in the series did start with this idea. Unfortunately, DAI didn't even come close to fleshing out the individual origins of each race.

 

They are likely doing research with the data they are  receiving.  If some races are not popular...I would not expect to see them back.

 

Also alot of people wanted more depth to their inquisitors and that was sacrificed because of the demand for multiple races.

[Tex]

I know, but I meant it in that sense, none the less. Also one might say that it's very difficult to write a story having a completely blank protagonist, so some things unintentionally slip through, but I don't want to speculate on that.

Ah sorry for the mix up but thanks for taking the time to explain it is greatly appreciated.

[Ashevajak]

I think very, very early in the planning, Hawke was probably intended to be Inquisitor.  And by early, I mean "pre-DA2 release".

My understanding is that DA2 was never originally intended to be a full length game.  Inquisition was meant to be the "real" DA2, but at some point in the planning they realised they needed a "bridge" to act between Awakening and where they wanted to take the game.  This bridging game was set in Kirkwall, but somewhere along the line it was decided that this mini-game, or expansion, or whatever they were going to call it, would instead serve as the basis of a full game.

 

By the time that decision was made, Hawke was locked in as the DA2 protagonist, and whether or not they would be the Inquisition protagonist was going to be decided by how Hawke and DA2 in general was recieved.  The plot was probably altered quite a bit as a result...Act 3 always felt like it was tacked on the end to me, that it may have been intended to serve as the original starting point for Inquisition rather than the end of DA2 (mage uprising etc).  As the Champion, as well as a resident of the city where the Mage rebellion begun (perhaps the Templar rebellion was also intended to start there), Hawke would've been a candidate for leadership of the Inquisition due to their involvement with those factions and their heroism during the invasion of Kirkwall, regardless of their own position on the Chantry.

 

My understanding may be wrong, though.  I also would have liked to have seen "Exalted March" before definitely signing onto that theory...I think that expansion could have been pretty revealing.

[xnarcosysx]

Imagine if instead of the Warden Ally going with you into the fade, it's the Warden Commander, and now the decision is between two of your previous protagonists, both who had a hand in causing all of this. Hawke for arrogantly releasing Corypheus and the Warden Commander for going along with Erimond's scheme.

I think there is no way they would allow a character you developed to make character belief decisions like that without you. I know two of my characters would not have gone along with it.

[TinySquid]

You really missed the point, I'm not talking about patriarchy being wrong or sexism in the game (at least not in the way you seem to mean it). I'm talking about semantics and that scene is phallic no matter how you look at it,  the concept that power is masculine is a product of our world, writer's world. 

 

My point was that things are not all that pro-feminism (from a completely factual perspective) in DA as many might think because even if the writer wanted it that way (which I'm not sure that the writer ever had this as primary goal) it is difficult to be a product of your own society and not let it slip into the story, you can only do it with a relative ease if your character's world has no need for a social structure.

Raising a sword into the sky... is phallic?

 

Okay, I'm not touching that one with a 200 foot phallic pole.

 

Moving on, moving on.

[TraiHarder]

I'd say it was the original plan. DA2 was touted as "the rise to power of the most influential character in Thedas" (or words to that effect), so it suggests that Hawke was intended to be the Inquisitor at some stage in their planning. Presumably the very poor reception of DA2 and the strong desire of the fans for race options led the devs to rethink their plans. Personally, I think they were trying to set Hawke up as the Commander Shepard of DA, but for various reasons it didn't pan out.

I tottally doubt it. I dont think Bioware for at least DA would have us play the same character over again seeing as we haev already built this character up to their peak. Seeing as Corephyous's story is DLC without any extra characters it can be assumed that it was never on the disc so his story was made separately from that of Hawkes. I doubt that it was every the original idea or even the main idea for hawke to become the inquistor. Maybe a small one but never the main or original vision for the inquistor.

[Ash Wind]

Probably... as I understand it, a DA2 expansion, Exhalted March got merged into DAI... whether it included the Breach and the Rifts is anyone's guess, but it seems a fairly good presumtion that IQ and Hawke are interchangeable

[Merlik]

I think it's very likely that early in development, Bioware was gonna go with Hawke getting the mark and the player being Hawke throughout the game but at some point added the extra races for appeal evidenced by them looking rushed in to the game (technical/graphical issues).

 

Corypheus is from Dragon Age 2...Bioware is stealing Hawke's thunder! it's like Inquisition is a sequel that stole the glory from Hawke. It would be like Mass Effect 2 or 3 without Shepard. It would be like Empire Strikes back or Return of the Jedi with only a brief cameo of Luke Skywalker.

 

It just makes more sense for Hawke to of become the Inquisitor instead of making up some bs story about why he wasn't around.

 

If Hawke wasn't to be the playable character, then I would of prefered him to be Inquisitor and me the playable character as his right hand and then maybe later some sort of tragedy takes his life and i become Inquisitor...

 

What do you guys think?

 

This reminds me a lot of Babylon 5...  Jeffrey Sinclair was the captain the first season and a huge story was being built up around him. But then they changed the captain in the second season. I think I lot were unhappy with the original guy and he was replaced and the new guy stole his thunder.

 

I could easily see this being the case with Hawke, DA2 was not well received (I hated it), and I could see them deciding that they would have to replace Hawke. 

 

Who knows what really happened.

 

As for Babylon 5, I liked the original captain, and was pissed when they replaced him. 

[Violetbliss]

Probably it was an idea at the very least... They could just have let Cass find Hawke, after all, and gone from there. I think Hawke would have made a decent one, but opening up race choice is rather nice decision too.

 

Funny how things change via personal perception. To me, dalish warden was definitely the one that clicked with me. But for Hawke, female sarcastic voice was just incredibly awesomely done to me, so Hawke's going to be that in my head. Maybe there are too many choices in the DA games for a Shepard arc right now. Myself i would really love Hawke as a companion for a possible DA4, with heavy influences of your settings for her/him.

 

On the point of DA2 not being well-recieved, was it so much Hawke, though? To me it seemed to be the reused locales and the fact that lots of people wanted DAO2 and not DA2, that caused most uproars.

 

They could just have let Cass find Hawke, after all. And gone from there. 

[Jackal19851111]

I would have given up on the DA franchise if DAI used Hawke.

[thats1evildude]

I think it's far more likely that Corypheus was going to be the villain of the cancelled Exalted March expansion, and that Hawke would have conclusively defeated him during that storyline.

[rapscallioness]

I would have loved Hawke as the Inquisitor. And if not, then a PC that was not so wet-blanket.

 

I'm sorry, but I just do not connect with my Quizzy. Any of them. I've tried really hard. I've played all the races. Different romances. Different genders. Different classes. I've tried skipping as much filler content as I could and sticking with the main quest hoping that it would do something for me.

 

The closest I get is playing as a female Dalish elf--romancing Solas.

 

This has never happened to me. Not in any game, BW games, or other companies. And I'm pretty much a big softie. I usually have No problems empathizing and connecting with my PC. Open world or linear. Fixed protag, or voiceless blank slate.

 

I am truly at a loss to understand why I am not connecting. I really don't know. I mean, I like my Quizzy's, but their kinda like a nice co-worker. They're cool and all at the office, but I'm not interested in trading phone numbers and going out and having a beer with them.

 

And yet I still enjoyed DAI. I had good time with it, and have spent countless hours playing it, but it's just something.....missing. (was it struggle? was everything too easy for my Quizzy?)

 

shyte, idk.

 

[ashlover mark 2]

I would have loved Hawke as the Inquisitor. And if not, then a PC that was not so wet-blanket.

 

I'm sorry, but I just do not connect with my Quizzy. Any of them. I've tried really hard. I've played all the races. Different romances. Different genders. Different classes. I've tried skipping as much filler content as I could and sticking with the main quest hoping that it would do something for me.

 

The closest I get is playing as a female Dalish elf--romancing Solas.

 

This has never happened to me. Not in any game, BW games, or other companies. And I'm pretty much a big softie. I usually have No problems empathizing and connecting with my PC. Open world or linear. Fixed protag, or voiceless blank slate.

 

I am truly at a loss to understand why I am not connecting. I really don't know. I mean, I like my Quizzy's, but their kinda like a nice co-worker. They're cool and all at the office, but I'm not interested in trading phone numbers and going out and having a beer with them.

 

And yet I still enjoyed DAI. I had good time with it, and have spent countless hours playing it, but it's just something.....missing. (was it struggle? was everything too easy for my Quizzy?)

 

shyte, idk.

 

I think that's because compared to The HOF and Hawke the Inquisitor has very little personal story. His\her purpose is to seal rifts, Kill Corypheus, and be a religious symbol. Outside of that the Inquisitor has nothing else that is significant.